Motor Mount insert

[RHAGEL]

Ddid I see a motor mount insert for the passanger side mount somewhere? If so , can someone direct me to where I saw it? Thanks.

[RHAGEL]

Well, I found some inserts from RR racing, but it is for the front and rear. Does anyone know how easy it is to install?

[DiS]

you can get both side mount inserts at www.awrracing.com. I have both of them including from motor mount from them. Trans. side motor mount insert definetly helps to reduce the wheel hop.

[apocman]

I have all four of the AWR MM's and I love them, my engine doesnt even move when i start it...

[DiS]

I have all four of the AWR MM's and I love them, my engine doesnt even move when i start it...
yea I always wanted to get the rear mount but I dunno, something is holding me back.....time and money, hehe

[Ryoga28]

My advice after trying the front and rear awr mounts is to get the front awr mount with the side inserts plus the RR racing inserts for the rear.

[glyph]

I have all four mounts as well. The side inserts are decently easy to put in, the front is easy, and the rear is a bitch. Many threads on the subject. Definitely increases the vibration. A friend of mine never fails to mention the "foot massage" he gets. I don't notice because my feet are on the pedals... But the vibration is there. I now use a single key instead of a keychain in the ignition to save on the jingling noise, but the responsiveness is worth it.

[RHAGEL]

I am looking for whatever is easiest and cheapest. I am only planning on having my car another 9 months or so, then comes the MS3! The rocking is just really pissing me off. What do you guys think, buy the front and side inserts? Thanks for your help.

[glyph]

If only for 9 months, and you're not sure who's going to be buying, forget the inserts.

[RHAGEL]

Yeah, I was thinking that; but driving in traffic is so annoying. Its almost worth the little bit of money.

[glyph]

What is the annoying part?

[RHAGEL]

Not all the time, but sometimes I have to ride the clutch to get the car not to "chug". Its hard to explain but I know others have had the same issues.

[Captain KRM P5]

I also carry the side mount inserts.

[Zaurusman]

Not all the time, but sometimes I have to ride the clutch to get the car not to "chug". Its hard to explain but I know others have had the same issues.

Riding the clutch solves this? I was hoping I might need mounts myself, but mine's the opposite -- it "stutters" or "vibrates" when I don't engage the clutch too quickly for it to do so. Must be the clutch, then.

(encourage

[glyph]

Not all the time, but sometimes I have to ride the clutch to get the car not to "chug". Its hard to explain but I know others have had the same issues.
check your mounts, see if they look deteriorated. It could be your mounts aren't even holding the engine. But like was said, it is more likely your clutch, or the standard cold-start chatter these mazdas have.

[RHAGEL]

The problem mostly occurs at low speed in traffic (5-6 mph) when I am on and off the gas. I tap the gas, the engine feels like its "hopping". Then I let off the gas and does the same thing. If I am on and off the clutch at the same time it is a smooth transition. The car has done it since it was new. My old 626 did the same thing, just not as bad.

[DiS]

The problem mostly occurs at low speed in traffic (5-6 mph) when I am on and off the gas. I tap the gas, the engine feels like its "hopping". Then I let off the gas and does the same thing. If I am on and off the clutch at the same time it is a smooth transition. The car has done it since it was new. My old 626 did the same thing, just not as bad.

i think its normal......my car was doing this since day 1 when I got it (original owner). It still does it. I just dont leave it in a gear rolling at low rpm in traffic jams.

[glyph]

You are likely experiencing something very standard with clutches. It's a matter of the a little play in the system. Everyone gets that in manuals at low speed driving. The inserts won't affect that at all. The stiffer mounts will only increase powertrain responsiveness by reducing drivetrain innefficiencies. Also, the side inserts are on the axis on which the engine would spin if it wasn't lashed down by the front and rear mounts. For example, look at your keyboard. Imagine yourself grabbing it by the short ends (Caps Lock end, and Number pad end) and rolling it over. Imagine that to be your engine. Your hands are the passenger and driver side mounts, and if you draw a line from hand to hand you get the axis about which the "engine" would rotate; which is equivalent to the axis about which the pistons rotate. When power is applied to the engine, it's really the front/rear mounts that make ~98% of the difference. The front/rear mounts would be located at the long sides, one at the function key edge and one at the space bar edge. The side inserts we are talking about don't do much at all, honestly, that's why only inserts are produced, not entire replacement mounts. They are designed more to equal the load across the mounts if you already have the front and rear mounts. You can talk to Tony (the Anthony of Anthony Woodford Racing) at AWR for confirmation, as I am not the engineer or designer, just using deductive reasoning.

Hopefully that's clear.

[Zaurusman]

Is it normal to feel this in third gear going 20 in a school zone? Or to get it very strongly in 2nd gear going through a parking lot?

[RHAGEL]

Is it normal to feel this in third gear going 20 in a school zone? Or to get it very strongly in 2nd gear going through a parking lot? Yeah, a little. I wish our cars were drive by wire. I know the problem is due to the fuel system but stiffer mounts would fix it a little.

[glyph]

It gets worse the lower the gear you're in. If you are in 1st, it's serious bucking, 2nd is moderate, 3rd is mild.

I disagree that the mounts will fix it. It hasn't changed in mine. It's just a function of slow speed driving in manuals. If you have an automatic, that's different.

The only real fix for this is to operate the clutch more often. At slow speeds to prevent the bucking, simply step on the clutch.

[Zaurusman]

It gets worse the lower the gear you're in. If you are in 1st, it's serious bucking, 2nd is moderate, 3rd is mild.

Okay, then mine is working as it's designed to and I'm just going to have to accept that the car's going to do this. Thanks for confirming that for me.

I agree that with the direct-connection properties of manuals you're going to experience some bucking in low gear, but this is the first of four sticks I've owned that has done this for me in 3rd, or anything noticeable in 2nd once I've gotten used to the vehicle. I like that the car's so nice and tight, but that's definitely an annoying downside that takes a bit of the smooth out of driving it.

Guess from this that it's time to price clutch replacement. Dunno what the heck the original owner did to this thing for the clutch to act up in all of 42K miles, but I do know that I did a clutch swap on my '98 Dakota when its throw-out bearing started acting up around 95K and ain't doing it myself again! Give me a timing chain to replace or even moderate suspension work any day...

[RHAGEL]

It gets worse the lower the gear you're in. If you are in 1st, it's serious bucking, 2nd is moderate, 3rd is mild.

I disagree that the mounts will fix it. It hasn't changed in mine. It's just a function of slow speed driving in manuals. If you have an automatic, that's different.

The only real fix for this is to operate the clutch more often. At slow speeds to prevent the bucking, simply step on the clutch.

I didn't think the mounts would fix it, just help a little. Before my last 626, I owned a CRX si which never did it. It seemed very smooth, like I think it should be. I just think Mazdas are notorious for this. Oh well, I guess I just have to live with it.

[glyph]

Okay, then mine is working as it's designed to and I'm just going to have to accept that the car's going to do this. Thanks for confirming that for me.

I agree that with the direct-connection properties of manuals you're going to experience some bucking in low gear, but this is the first of four sticks I've owned that has done this for me in 3rd, or anything noticeable in 2nd once I've gotten used to the vehicle. I like that the car's so nice and tight, but that's definitely an annoying downside that takes a bit of the smooth out of driving it.

Guess from this that it's time to price clutch replacement. Dunno what the heck the original owner did to this thing for the clutch to act up in all of 42K miles, but I do know that I did a clutch swap on my '98 Dakota when its throw-out bearing started acting up around 95K and ain't doing it myself again! Give me a timing chain to replace or even moderate suspension work any day...

Make sure you get it inspected, first. It may not necessitate a replacement. Every manual I have had has done that, including this one (which is the only one I bought new).

[glyph]

I didn't think the mounts would fix it, just help a little. Before my last 626, I owned a CRX si which never did it. It seemed very smooth, like I think it should be. I just think Mazdas are notorious for this. Oh well, I guess I just have to live with it.

I'm pretty sure my CRX did it, too. I had an 86 CRX two tone grey/red, and commuted 1.5 hrs one way for a while with it. I always thought it was a function of the manual system. Maybe someday I'll drive a clutch that doesn't.

[Mach 3.5 Turbo]

Ok everybody, if you want to know why the car "surges" at low speeds, it has everything to do with the clutch. Not the clamping part, the disc. If you look at a stock disc, it has 5 or so springs in the middle of it. The point of these springs are to isolate engine vibrations from the transmission to keep the gears in the transmission from rattling. It's just for comfort, since people don't like the gear rattle noise. The problem is, when you make a spring-damper system like this you always have a resonance point at low frequencies (low rpms). At this point, the weight of the car and the weight of the engine components and blah blah blah make the whole car shake like we see. Just increase rpms and it goes away, or release the clutch and it goes away. The only way to fix this is to put in an aftermarket disc without these springs, the puck-type discs usually don't have them. But, you get loud rattling from the transmission. It's all a trade-off.

[glyph]

thanks

[Zaurusman]

Thanks for explaining those springs - never considered what those are there for. It's not a cut and dried "if they are there then it will be choppy" thing, though. My Dodge, for example, also has the springs in its clutch. But Dodge also makes two part numbers for gears of the same ratio and carrier -- one for autos and one for manuals. As they explain it, there is more play in the manual's gears for "drivability" purposes. I always wondered if the ones with more play should also wear out sooner, but I liked being bounce free.

[Mach 3.5 Turbo]

Thanks for explaining those springs - never considered what those are there for. It's not a cut and dried "if they are there then it will be choppy" thing, though. My Dodge, for example, also has the springs in its clutch. But Dodge also makes two part numbers for gears of the same ratio and carrier -- one for autos and one for manuals. As they explain it, there is more play in the manual's gears for "drivability" purposes. I always wondered if the ones with more play should also wear out sooner, but I liked being bounce free.

Well, it kinda is a cut and dried thing. Every clutch disc has these. I worked for a clutch manufacturer for 4 years as a design engineer in the disc group, so I've seen quite a few. Automatics don't have discs, or clutches. They have torque converters, which have the same springs in them if they're new enough to have a lock-up torque converter (mid eighties or early nineties and newer). Basically, anything connecting the engine to the transmission has a spring and damper system in it to reduce vibration because the gears in the transmission have slop. Even most CVTs have something like this. This is just normal tolerancing so the thing can be assembled. It won't wear out any faster, just rattle. If we could keep incredibly tight tolerances when we make gears, we wouldn't need these parts, but the transmission would cost more than the car. So, it's a band-aid fix to keep costs down.