Mazda Adjusted Break Bias on "newer" Mazdas?

[gizzard]

I took my car to a Mazda dealer to get its 30K mile service and the dealer said I had more 80% brakes left on the front, but less than 10% on the rear. They quoted a $200+ service on it ($90 for brakes, $100+ for labor). I thought this was really puzzling because much of the car's weight is usually on the front axle when braking. I called a friend who is much more knowledgeable about cars and he told me to ask the mechanic if the rear calipers were dragging. The dealer said nothing was abnormal with the calipers, but Mazda adjusted the brake bias on newer Mazdas to the rear.

Is this true? And if so, would there be such a large disparity in brake wear? I really don't want to spend another $200 on top of the $339 service, especially when I'm going to spend another $300 on a new set of tires soon.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Edit: Is there a way I can check myself? Should I feel it during driving?

[AlbNYPR5]

I have gone through two sets of pads on the rear of my car in about 42k. There is a known problem with the pads hanging up which causes increased pad wear. My first set of pads were covered by mazda under goodwill at like 21k. Another 10k or so went by and the brakes were having issues again and within another 5k the passenger side rear pad was worn to the metal backplate. I replaced the pads and rotors all around at that point and haven't see the pads hang up at all in the past 7k or so. To me it looks like the mazda rear pads are just shit.

[nalspeed]

if you have a p5 this is what I did I bought some ceramic posi pads and blank rotors, since you only have 30k on car I would just recomend getting the pads from propartsusa he is in forum, but if you want that extra brake power get the rotor as well, i went to evanstires don't know if you have those around your area and they instl it for 75 dollars. never ever go to dealer to get brakes done they rape you on labor




I took my car to a Mazda dealer to get its 30K mile service and the dealer said I had more 80% brakes left on the front, but less than 10% on the rear. They quoted a $200+ service on it ($90 for brakes, $100+ for labor). I thought this was really puzzling because much of the car's weight is usually on the front axle when braking. I called a friend who is much more knowledgeable about cars and he told me to ask the mechanic if the rear calipers were dragging. The dealer said nothing was abnormal with the calipers, but Mazda adjusted the brake bias on newer Mazdas to the rear.

Is this true? And if so, would there be such a large disparity in brake wear? I really don't want to spend another $200 on top of the $339 service, especially when I'm going to spend another $300 on a new set of tires soon.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Edit: Is there a way I can check myself? Should I feel it during driving?

[eting_pro5]

quit driving with the ebrake on.


just kidding, im sure its mazda shitiness

[cheapmiata1600]

huh, I've replaced my fronts once already but I havn't touched the rears. I have 45k miles too.

[i12drivemyMP5]

I have 2003, what is "newer models" My oem stuff came off at 8k with no signs of wear at all much less abnormal. Only took them off to put on brembos & hawks. I'm at 37k & still have at least 1/3 of the pads in back & a little less in front. Not seeing any strange wear at all. Now since the rotors were drilled/slotted they will be toast when pads are done-nothing left to turn surprised no warp action yet but I use steering wheel & gas, brakes are a last resort. The oems are in good enough shape to go back on should I not want to buy the other combo again. I will be buying same combo again less the slots-only drilled rotors this time. I refuse to let anyone work on my car at all unless new tires or alignment for the reasons you stated. Sounds like you got the brakes from our POS 1997 pontiac grand am we used to have. I replaced pads once then pads/rotors by the time we were at 20k & that was the wife's car. She has much tamer driving habits.

[ChopstickHero]

in my P5, i've changed the front rotors once and machined them once, and changed the pads twice..... BEFORE i even touched my rear brakes.

[the tortoise]

I think it depends where you live. Apparently the road salt really upsets the rear calipers, causing the brakes to drag.

I think the Mazda dude was full of $hit. It makes no sense to have the brake bias shifted that much to the rear.

[.paul]

I took my car to a Mazda dealer to get its 30K mile service and the dealer said I had more 80% brakes left on the front, but less than 10% on the rear. ...The dealer said nothing was abnormal with the calipers, but Mazda adjusted the brake bias on newer Mazdas to the rear

There's no way you'd have that much brake bias to the rear, you'd notice it the first time you got hard on the brakes and looped the car. Generally you'll go through two sets of front brakes before you change a rear set.


but if you want that extra brake power get the rotor as well,
What? How does changing a rotor give you more braking power?
The only thing the brake rotor does is dissipate the heat the brake pads create when they change forward motion in to heat energy.

[gizzard]

Some more details: I live in Southern California (near LA) and my car is a 2003 P5 (no roof rack). The mechanic seemed to include my car, Mazda3s and 6s in the "newer cars" categories. I'm calling BS on him too, but I'm going to get it checked out at other dealerships in my area.

Thanks for the advice. =)

[Jack Daniels]

I just did the rear brakes on my 2003 P5 at 38000 miles. Calipers are not dragging. I have heard that there is more rear bias on these cars. Maybe it's only on P5's with ABS?

The fronts are at about 50%.


BTW, it's a really easy job to do yourself.

[macklum]

I opted for the drum brakes and no ABS on my 2001lx for that reasons ,Mazda rear calipers are shit , I just checked the drums at 137kms and I sill have 1/2 the shoes left .

[aMaff]

I just did the rear brakes on my 2003 P5 at 38000 miles. Calipers are not dragging. I have heard that there is more rear bias on these cars. Maybe it's only on P5's with ABS?

The fronts are at about 50%.


BTW, it's a really easy job to do yourself.
It's really not aweful, now that I've done it once, I think I could handle it next time

[i12drivemyMP5]

Way to easy to have some careless dealershit screw it up for no reason. Use the labor fees for the women, entertainment OR other goodies for your car.

[Jack Daniels]

I opted for the drum brakes and no ABS on my 2001lx for that reasons ,Mazda rear calipers are shit , I just checked the drums at 137kms and I sill have 1/2 the shoes left .

You opted for drum brakes on purpose? http://www.msprotege.com:8080/smilies/boom07.gif

[Greg S]

Some more details: I live in Southern California (near LA) and my car is a 2003 P5 (no roof rack). The mechanic seemed to include my car, Mazda3s and 6s in the "newer cars" categories. I'm calling BS on him too, but I'm going to get it checked out at other dealerships in my area.

Thanks for the advice. =)


Same deal for me and with the front pads halfway worn the rears were toast, had to replace the rotors since they were so scored. Wife's car not mine. Seems to be an issue with the P5 for certain, don't know about other Mazdas. Once you see how the rear caliper design is done you can see why it happens, not the smartest design, but cost effective.

[mogi]

uh *cough* guys *cough*

TSB
http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/tsb/

[Jack Daniels]

uh *cough* guys *cough*

TSB
http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/tsb/

So there's a TSB. I had inspected my rears a couple of times during tire rotations and saw no dragging of the brakes. They wore perfectly even on both the left and right. The inboard and outboard pads were exactly the same. Dragging pads on single piston calipers typically wear more on one side. I don't think there's any problem. :shrug:

[Nomad]

OK guys, I suppose I should write some info here.

The miata brakes are the same design in the rear and there are a few little issues everyone should know to overcome shortcomings.

The rear calipers are "floating" single piston, in that the single piston on the inside pushes the inner pad against the rotor, then as it closes the distance the outer pad is forced closer to the rotor by it "sliding" on the two slider pins. The effectiveness of the brakes depends on the two slider pins moving freely.
These are supposed to be lubed from the factory but 99% of the cars seen display no lube whatsoever even right off the Mazda boat. Oops!
The first thing people should do to avoid this is really easy. Take the rear wheels off, undo the two rear caliperpins and they will slide out their sleeves. You'll then notice that the pins are either dry and smooth or dry and corroded or in rare cases lubed. Clean off corrosion and lube liberally with copper based high temp anti sieze grease. It comes in a bottle (like a vitamin bottle) at any parts store.

Grease those slider pins and the rear brakes will engage and disengage as they are supposed to. Yearly if you are into it. Since this area is sort of open at least every other year you may want to add some grease.

This is why the rears stay closed and wear out. So grease your pins and save money on brakes and free up horsepower!

[.paul]

My hero!!
I definately should do this sometime.

[aMaff]

another thing to do over the winter...prolly a dumb question, but can u over lube them?

[falsedawn]

I would recommend proper brake caliper grease (it's synthetic, and not petroleum based) - anti seize grease is just that - meant to prevent seizing, not lubrication. (hence why it's good on bolts, spark plug threads, between wheel and rotor etc).

You can get little sachets of the stuff from places like autozone for a dollar or so.

You can't really over-lube as any excess will just be pushed out when you re-assemble and make a mess! :)

[aMaff]

I would recommend proper brake caliper grease (it's synthetic, and not petroleum based) - anti seize grease is just that - meant to prevent seizing, not lubrication. (hence why it's good on bolts, spark plug threads, between wheel and rotor etc).

You can get little sachets of the stuff from places like autozone for a dollar or so.

You can't really over-lube as any excess will just be pushed out when you re-assemble and make a mess! :)
cool, thanks

[Nomad]

Technically, the term overlube could mean anything so 'd say, don't put some huge amount on it. You don't want there to be a bunch of excess grease to find it's way onto your rotors. Not so great for stopping.

Yes, you can find the brake caliper grease things as well.
My anti seize copper based grease says it resists up to 2000 degrees and can be used on brake assemblies. I also use it on all my reassembly bolts like exhaust, suspension, plugs etc.

[gizzard]

Wow. Thanks for the information. So if I take the TSB info to the dealer, they should fix the problem free of charge?

[AlbNYPR5]

Wow. Thanks for the information. So if I take the TSB info to the dealer, they should fix the problem free of charge?

In most cases the dealers are less than helpful even with TSB in hand. However, I did have my rear pads replaced as goodwill. Because the brakes are a wear and tear item they only warranty them for 1 year or 12k (I'm pretty sure of those figures). The second time I brought it in for the same thing they wouldn't do anything for me other than tell me that I needed to pay over $200 to replace the rear pads and rotors. I threw the rear caliper TSB, the rusty rotor TSB and them and they told me that it wasn't covered. And really the only reason I entertained the idea of paying them to do the brakes for me was that I also complained about the paint peeling off from my wheels and I wanted them to think I wasn't just trying to scam a new set of the wheels. After they told me that they would cover the wheels under goodwill I told them not to do any brake work on the car. I did the brake job, all four corners pads and rotors for like $240, which was less than they wanted for just the rears.

So, take it down and see if they will replace them for you. Worst case scenario is you'll need to pay the diagnostic fee.

[Nomad]

TSB is NOT a recall or an admission of anything.
It is merely a Technical Service Bulletin for the dealerships to know what to look for and where to look if a complaint is entered. Not every tech is really good at diagnosis and most of the time they do NOT want to take the effort to take things apart just to see if they might be a problem. They'd rather just give the usual info and if it's confusing look under "brakes" in their bulletins and see if it gives them a clue of where to look. It's really up to them to cover it under warranty if it is a wear item or if the car is out of warranty.

[Diehonda]

Good thread. Would the pads sticking cause the brakes to drag. My car seems to lunge forward while braking with minimal pressure applied. But hammering down, it stops right there. I guess I need a warm day to take it apart and take a look.

What pads do you guys use?

I have used PBR or Mintex on my other cars.

[aMaff]

Technically, the term overlube could mean anything so 'd say, don't put some huge amount on it. You don't want there to be a bunch of excess grease to find it's way onto your rotors. Not so great for stopping.

Yes, you can find the brake caliper grease things as well.
My anti seize copper based grease says it resists up to 2000 degrees and can be used on brake assemblies. I also use it on all my reassembly bolts like exhaust, suspension, plugs etc.
Thanks. Ok, question real quick: You know how we can swivel the "piston" portion of the caliper away from the brakes to inspect / replace pads w/o taking the entire caliper off right? Well, if I did that would I have to compress the piston to get it to fit back over the pads? Thanks.

[wipedawg]

I opted for the drum brakes and no ABS on my 2001lx for that reasons ,Mazda rear calipers are shit , I just checked the drums at 137kms and I sill have 1/2 the shoes left .
That is the dumbest thing that i have heard. Why the hell would you opt for inferior brakes? On top of that opt for a longer stopping distance is dumb as well. You have 1/2 the shoes left because rear drums dont grip for shit. My rear pads lasted 45k miles and then i changed them. I'd rather change the rear pads every 25k miles than be stuck with drums in the rear.

[Nomad]

Thanks. Ok, question real quick: You know how we can swivel the "piston" portion of the caliper away from the brakes to inspect / replace pads w/o taking the entire caliper off right? Well, if I did that would I have to compress the piston to get it to fit back over the pads? Thanks.

Yes, I believe you'd be taking out the pin that needs the lube when you do that. I'm doing some brake work this weekend so it's been a while so i can't remember exactly.

The piston will not have to be pressed back in (actually the rears are adjusted with allen screws IIRC) unless you replace the pads with new pads that are thicker than your current ones. If you just swivel out, it will swivel back no problem unless you have a dunce in the driver seat who steps on the brake while you have it out.

[aMaff]

Yes, I believe you'd be taking out the pin that needs the lube when you do that. I'm doing some brake work this weekend so it's been a while so i can't remember exactly.

The piston will not have to be pressed back in (actually the rears are adjusted with allen screws IIRC) unless you replace the pads with new pads that are thicker than your current ones. If you just swivel out, it will swivel back no problem unless you have a dunce in the driver seat who steps on the brake while you have it out.
Cool, what are u doing? I'm pretty sure u wouldn't have to compress them, but I wanna be sure. Lemme know

[Nomad]

As for opting for drums in the rear and no ABS...
I can see not getting ABS and drums because you don't have the $$ to add them on. No big deal.
But if you actually opted out of those things because you thought you were clever... Sorry man, you chose wrong.

Drum brakes are super old tech and do NOT grip as well as discs, period. They do not modulate as well as discs and have more parts to go bad than discs. It's pretty straightforward that discs are better by far. Oh well.

If you opted out of ABS I could understand it maybe if you were a performance driver who was very skilled at brake modulation in all sorts of conditions and did not want that "crutch" interfering with you when you are driving on the ragged edge.
Seeing your knowledge of brakes and the fact you have a Protege LX pretty much cancels that option out.

Not bashing, just letting you know not to make that mistake again.

[Nomad]

I'll be bleeding the fluid, checking my SS brake lines and putting in Hawk HPS pads on my Miata.

The P5 will be getting bled, slotted fronts, OEM rears and Ceramic pads from propartsusa in another week or so.

[Diehonda]

is the factory fluid synthetic?

[Nomad]

I highly doubt that OEM is synth.

[gizzard]

I called Mazda USA today and explained my situation. All the CSR could say was my brakes are considered "consumable" and can't be replaced under warranty because it is past 12,000 miles. He never directly addressed the fact that my rear brakes are wearing four times faster than my fronts.

What other action can I take?

[Nomad]

Grease the slider pins. Buy new brakes.
Call another dealer.

[gizzard]

I wish I had the time, tools and skills to do it myself. I'm a full-time student at the moment and don't have the means to pay every dealer in SoCal $50 so they can check my brakes. Is there anyone higher up on the chain I can contact?

[gizzard]

I'm sending a letter to Mazda NA tomorrow. Hopefully I get a response. =)