lsd warning?

[mspHtown]

are there any warning signs of a stock lsd on the verge of failing?

[vxfilmer1000]

are there any warning signs of a stock lsd on the verge of failing?

im sure there are threads about this somewhere, but im wondering this too. idk if this would be a warning bu when i start off from a dead stop (just going normal) my car will shake like crazy and vibrate everything in the car because of the shaking...?

[wicked]

no worning,when it snaps it snaps.

[mspdfreak]

If you're beating the shit out of your car, that's your warning sign. These cars weren't made for racing.

[Alejo_NIN]

If you're beating the shit out of your car, that's your warning sign. These cars weren't made for racing.

not made for racing, yet they're called MAZDASPEED....weird...

[INGREXCO]

no warning just dies... it sucks ass

[mspHtown]

im sure there are threads about this somewhere, but im wondering this too. idk if this would be a warning bu when i start off from a dead stop (just going normal) my car will shake like crazy and vibrate everything in the car because of the shaking...?


mine shakes sometimes also. it seems to only occur when it is cold out and the car is not warmed up (only when engaging first gear). i actually tried to find the reason for the shaking on the forums and came up with that alot of people experience this problem and there is a document out there (for n/a proteges) on the topic of clutch shuddering. i dont know though, never a definite answer because we dont drive n/a proteges.

[gboromsp]

It shakes b/c your rear motor mount is most likely torn. You can look at mine and see where it it ripped. I'll take pics of it when I install the awr.

[ZenProtege]

here is a good thread on proteges getting clutch chatter. In short,there is a TSB saying its caused by the clutch. If your getting the shudder all the time in every gear it's probably your mounts. If you get it when its cold out or during the first drive of the day thats what your problem is likely to be. I get the same shudder all the time. It's annoying but it goes away after a few minutes. What sucks is they won't cover 03's

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92553&highlight=clutch+chatter

[TX Speed Demon]

mine shakes sometimes also. it seems to only occur when it is cold out and the car is not warmed up (only when engaging first gear).

Me too. Noticed it after I installed the AWR Front Motor Mount. Sounds like two pipes hitting each other. I pulled out all my FMIC pipes, wrapped any areas that looked like they were hitting something and reinstalled. No difference. I'm going to mark my front motor mount, drive around and see if it is loose (if markings don't line up).

If it's not a loose front one I think it is a torn rear one. My clutch still grabs strong, doesn't slip. There doesn't seem to be any corrolation to the sound and turning/power, it only happens when I engage first gear, or sometimes in second if I let the rpms drop close to 1000. I've checked everything else I can think of.

I'm going to take JDM Sam and LinuxRacr for a ride tonight to get their opinions. If we get this figured out I'll post back up.

[goku4658]

subbed

[vxfilmer1000]

mine shakes sometimes also. it seems to only occur when it is cold out and the car is not warmed up (only when engaging first gear). i actually tried to find the reason for the shaking on the forums and came up with that alot of people experience this problem and there is a document out there (for n/a proteges) on the topic of clutch shuddering. i dont know though, never a definite answer because we dont drive n/a proteges.

yeah mine only does it in 1st gear too

[mspdfreak]

not made for racing, yet they're called MAZDASPEED....weird...Yep, it's called branding. It sells cars.

[mspHtown]

so if i take the car to the dealership, will they fix the clutch chatter? or not.

[mspdfreak]

They will if they think that's the problem.

[ForceFed]

They will if they think that's the problem.No they won't...A clutch is a wear item and is NOT covered under warranty at this point for anyone owning a MSP.
It IS the clutch if its only when cold and just the first couple of shifts.Its most likely the flywheel with some heat checks on it causing the shudder...I have it and My dealer fixesd everything I complain about except this.
My LSD also failed on Sunday and there is 0,ZERO warning when one of these goes out.Your problem is not the LSD ...You will know if it goes.

[MrDiggler]

here is a good thread on proteges getting clutch chatter. In short,there is a TSB saying its caused by the clutch. If your getting the shudder all the time in every gear it's probably your mounts. If you get it when its cold out or during the first drive of the day thats what your problem is likely to be. I get the same shudder all the time. It's annoying but it goes away after a few minutes. What sucks is they won't cover 03's

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92553&highlight=clutch+chatter


Thanks guys. I was just about to post a question about the clutch chatter/vibration I get. Mine will do it in first and through all gear changes that occur at lower rpm. I'd describe it as some sort of drivetrain backlash or slop. I've wondered if my flywheel or pressure plate could be wavy, but the torn motor mount theory sounds much more likely. My clutch still grips strong as hell at 40k miles and I don't think it's a clutch problem. I think letting out the clutch with a little bit of load at lower rpm's just exposes the problem.

[MrDiggler]

are there any warning signs of a stock lsd on the verge of failing?

No. There was no warning on mine before it went, and it went when I least expected it to. Putting along in 1st gear at under 3k rpm's. (WTF?) All of a sudden you'll hear a pop-crunch-grind thing and the car won't move under power anymore.

[Rawyzf]

What clutch did you decide to get?
No they won't...A clutch is a wear item and is NOT covered under warranty at this point for anyone owning a MSP.
It IS the clutch if its only when cold and just the first couple of shifts.Its most likely the flywheel with some heat checks on it causing the shudder...I have it and My dealer fixesd everything I complain about except this.
My LSD also failed on Sunday and there is 0,ZERO warning when one of these goes out.Your problem is not the LSD ...You will know if it goes.

[DiscreetSpeed]

i had none..just happened

[MrDiggler]

i had none..just happened

Welcome to the club Discreet. Sorry to hear about it.

[03.5MSP]

Yep, it's called branding. It sells cars.

I thought that Mazdaspeed was a racing division of Mazda. I think it goes something like this. Mazdaspeed is Mazda's in-house race and street car tuning arm and is highly involved in both amateur and professional motorsports.


Hmmmm, I think I saw racing in threre. (scratch)

[mspdfreak]

I thought that Mazdaspeed was a racing division of Mazda. I think it goes something like this. Mazdaspeed is Mazda's in-house race and street car tuning arm and is highly involved in both amateur and professional motorsports.


Hmmmm, I think I saw racing in threre. (scratch)Well, I know that, of course, but that doesn't mean the car is built for racing, which it clearly is not. I guarantee you don't see stock MSPs on the racing circuit.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Well, I know that, of course, but that doesn't mean the car is built for racing, which it clearly is not. I guarantee you don't see stock MSPs on the racing circuit.

didnt a msp finsh 1st or 2nd in SCCA nationals last year?

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

and nope theres no warning that your lsd is going to pop, and its not only when racing that it will pop either. I was taking my g/f home and pulled in her apartment complex, hit the gas to carry me around the corner (1400-1500 rpms) and *POP*

[goku4658]

these threads fucking scare me

[Rawyzf]

That's why I ordered a quaife while replacing the clutch.
these threads fucking scare me

[wicked]

and this is why I pulled my LSD out,and re-welded it,and replaced the clutch with a stage 3 hybrib SPEC.

BEFORE it became a issue.

[goku4658]

did you go to a shop to get it welded?

[mspHtown]

and this is why I pulled my LSD out,and re-welded it,and replaced the clutch with a stage 3 hybrib SPEC.

BEFORE it became a issue.


i was under the impression that the lsd cracks from the inside out meaning that rewelding it before it broke would only serve as a band-aid?

[wicked]

did you go to a shop to get it welded?

I pulled the diff,and had a friend weld it.

[wicked]

i was under the impression that the lsd cracks from the inside out meaning that rewelding it before it broke would only serve as a band-aid?


no,the reason they breake is because the stock wels are not enough,there are 4 small welds,and they are not sufficient to hold.


look at some of the pics here on the forum,they broke at the shitty stock welds.

after looking,and spending a long while thinking about how else it could be fixed,I ended up TIG welding mine just like turfburns

[mspHtown]

Me too. Noticed it after I installed the AWR Front Motor Mount. Sounds like two pipes hitting each other. I pulled out all my FMIC pipes, wrapped any areas that looked like they were hitting something and reinstalled. No difference. I'm going to mark my front motor mount, drive around and see if it is loose (if markings don't line up).

If it's not a loose front one I think it is a torn rear one. My clutch still grabs strong, doesn't slip. There doesn't seem to be any corrolation to the sound and turning/power, it only happens when I engage first gear, or sometimes in second if I let the rpms drop close to 1000. I've checked everything else I can think of.

I'm going to take JDM Sam and LinuxRacr for a ride tonight to get their opinions. If we get this figured out I'll post back up.


you guys figure anything out?

[carbonkid]

no worning,when it snaps it snaps.
agreed.

[carbonkid]

QUOTE=MrDiggler]No. There was no warning on mine before it went, and it went when I least expected it to. Putting along in 1st gear at under 3k rpm's. (WTF?) All of a sudden you'll hear a pop-crunch-grind thing and the car won't move under power anymore.[/QUOTE]

exactly what happened to me!

[carbonkid]

and this is why I pulled my LSD out,and re-welded it,and replaced the clutch with a stage 3 hybrib SPEC.

BEFORE it became a issue.

do you like your SPEC s3? I ordered the s2 (debated on the s2+ but didnt see my car ever seeing that kind of power). Is is fairly streetable?

[TX Speed Demon]

you guys figure anything out?

Nothing defenitive. General consencous is the rear motor mount. Haven't pulled it out yet to check for sure. I'm going to go in and try to warrenty it later this month when I get the front bushings replaced.

[ChopstickHero]

pics of a welded MSP LSD: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123616344

[wicked]

do you like your SPEC s3? I ordered the s2 (debated on the s2+ but didnt see my car ever seeing that kind of power). Is is fairly streetable?


3 hybrid is a great clutch,feels just like stock,exept you have to be more accurate with the gas,and release as it is easer to stall.

[tiwing]

Only thing I can think of re: the banging of pipes sound is that the tranny mount for the exhaust on aftermarket exhausts wasn't replaced - pic of where it should be. with stock motor mounts or softer aftermarket mounts there will be a lot of movement at this spot and it might more around that much.

Plus, if it's not attached here all the flex is being absorbed by the exhaust manifold / turbo manifold which could be a reason for cracked manifolds... Check this anyhow, and if you don't have a bracket/support there, go get one put in.
pic of bracket (http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/9730/trannymount16kt.jpg)


you guys figure anything out?

[genius]

Only thing I can think of re: the banging of pipes sound is that the tranny mount for the exhaust on aftermarket exhausts wasn't replaced - pic of where it should be. with stock motor mounts or softer aftermarket mounts there will be a lot of movement at this spot and it might more around that much.

Plus, if it's not attached here all the flex is being absorbed by the exhaust manifold / turbo manifold which could be a reason for cracked manifolds... Check this anyhow, and if you don't have a bracket/support there, go get one put in.
pic of bracket (http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/9730/trannymount16kt.jpg)

Another banging of the pipes could also be your hardpipes hitting the Master Brake Cylinder. A lot of people have associated it with clutch chatter.

[wicked]

very true,this problem was run into when we made the turbohoses hardpipes.a lot of people weren't adjusting them right,and they were hitting.



Another banging of the pipes could also be your hardpipes hitting the Master Brake Cylinder. A lot of people have associated it with clutch chatter.

[TX Speed Demon]

you guys figure anything out?

I still haven't replaced my rear motor mount, but last weekend I replaced my transmission fluid. Since then I haven't been able to duplicate the sound at all. Before changing the fluid I could do it anytime I shifted into first if I tried.

I honestly didn't think this would do anything for the previously mentioned problem. But I'm at 47K miles on the stock fluid and a friend of mine just blew the transmission (every gear) of his MSP due to low fluid. So I figured it was time to get some new stuff in there. I used Mobile 1 snythetic 75W90, 2.8 quarts (was 8$ a qt at Autozone). I should have, but didn't measure how much of the old stuff came out of the tranny.

Like I said, I have not been able to duplicate the banging noise since changing the fluid. It could be coincidence. It could be I was low on fluid and somehow that made the noise inside the tranny. Could be the synthetic fluid makes smoother engagement which leads to less vibration so the sound just doesn't happen now. I don't know, but it's worth checking out, especially if you're still running the stock fluid.

BTW, the two bolts (under and in front) on the tranny are 23mm. And if you use a funnel with a long hose you can put the hose in the front hole and fill it with fluid from the engine compartment. Takes a while for gravity to get all the oil in there though.




Only thing I can think of re: the banging of pipes sound is that the tranny mount for the exhaust on aftermarket exhausts wasn't replaced - pic of where it should be. with stock motor mounts or softer aftermarket mounts there will be a lot of movement at this spot and it might more around that much.

Plus, if it's not attached here all the flex is being absorbed by the exhaust manifold / turbo manifold which could be a reason for cracked manifolds... Check this anyhow, and if you don't have a bracket/support there, go get one put in.
pic of bracket (http://img311.imageshack.us/img311/9730/trannymount16kt.jpg)

Yeah that bracket broke when I had the stock exhaust in. My Apex one is much lighter, with a flex hose section, and with tighter exhaust hangers too. I also bent the hangers welded onto the car to hold the kartboy hangers tighter, now there's very little movement there at all. All this was done a few months ago and the car still had the problem. I did check underneath the car too. Initially I thought it was the exhaust hitting the crossmember or the undercarriage. I checked it all out but couldn't find any scratches or dents, and padded the crossmember just in case.

Still had the problem.




Another banging of the pipes could also be your hardpipes hitting the Master Brake Cylinder. A lot of people have associated it with clutch chatter.

This isn't it. I've had that issue previously when I first installed my highboost fmic last year. I fixed it, but just to be sure I also padded this area.

Still had the problem.

[spacemonkey]

im sure there are threads about this somewhere, but im wondering this too. idk if this would be a warning bu when i start off from a dead stop (just going normal) my car will shake like crazy and vibrate everything in the car because of the shaking...?

that just sounds like minor wheel hop or what the drift king calls "tranny chatter"

it happens to be on cold nights. its probally my fault for just replacing the frount mounts and not the back or sides. I ordered side so the engine shouldnt move that much.

as for the LSD I drive the crap out of my car (turning wise) and do delivery in it. I also Autoexe about once a month.

No problem here...I baby it on launch and try not to wheel hop. I dont do drag racing or any kind of racing that would require a hard launch. Hard launch when not done right = massive wheel hop.

I really dont know what causes it. There are some people pushing close to 300 whp on stock LSD like Fastlane. And there are people who have their LSD crap out at 10K. :dunno:

We shall see because my car is approaching the 36K mark with not much problem at all. Just the radio craped out once.

I saved up for a Quaife once but the LSD never gave out so I spent that money. If it does give out im going to buy a quife and see if the dealer would install it under warrenty. Im buying the dman LSD they just have to put it in for me.

[UnNaturalinc]

I thought that Mazdaspeed was a racing division of Mazda. I think it goes something like this. Mazdaspeed is Mazda's in-house race and street car tuning arm and is highly involved in both amateur and professional motorsports.


Hmmmm, I think I saw racing in threre. (scratch)

It's a Protege with some bolt on parts done to it. Factory upgraded model, not a race car.

No one professionally races with "Mazdaspeed" factory branded cars.

[spacemonkey]

yeah its like no one actually races a "Nismo 350Z."

Theres "Mazdaspeed" or in Europe its known as MPS (Mazda Perfomance Series) for factory cars. And theirs "mazdaspeed" race division or "Mazda motorsport." There you will find race spec parts from AWR and Mazda...but you have to prove to them you race your cars in major racing events.

[UnNaturalinc]

yeah its like no one actually races a "Nismo 350Z."

Theres "Mazdaspeed" or in Europe its known as MPS (Mazda Perfomance Series) for factory cars. And theirs "mazdaspeed" race division or "Mazda motorsport." There you will find race spec parts from AWR and Mazda...but you have to prove to them you race your cars in major racing events.

MPS is also in Japan. The MPS Protege made like 185hp all motor IIRC.

That's Mazda Competition you are speaking of. I think they are known as Mazda Motorsports and/or Mazdaspeed Motorsports now (since the Mazdaspeed name was released in the US). That program they have is to give discounts to legit racers (not necessarily professional racers SCCA even works). But the stuff they have is nothing special, it's more a price thing. They award money for winners (contingency) depending on the program.

Those guys are pretty cool too.

[Kelon32]

My LSD broke on my way across country. I got to the exit that my new place was on and put the car in first gear and all I got was a grinding sound. The dealer replaced the unit with an "updated" part that Mazda released because of the issues that everyone is having with the old ones. When I went to do an alignment on my car at the shop that I work at I was hanging the alignment heads on her and happened to spin the front wheel and noticed that they did not spin together. This is close to a month after the initial repairs had been made and I ran the crappiest autocross ever (I thought it was the tires at first). Took it back to the dealer where it is now and they are having a problem with Mazda directly getting them to tell the techinician what exactly they changed on the car. If they replaced my stock LSD with an open diff there are going to be major problems. If YOU have had your LSD replaced at the dealer and have been noticing less front end grip I would highly recommend that you lift up both front tires of your car and spin the front wheels with the transmission in nuetral. If they do not spin the same direction at the same speed then you got screwed too. If Mazda has decided that the Mazdaspeed Protege does not need an LSD then I have decided that they need to buy the car back. (gun)

[AuburnMSPfreak]

i had the pop grind thing as well and Mazda said that my clutch was fucked, then after about a day, the time in which they replaced the clutch, they called and said that the diff was fucked up as well but it was covered under warranty. now i am thinking that they told me that the clutch was fucked and it was really the LSD, they just wanted to charge me 900 dollars. So what do you guys think ab this? its kinda making me mad. If that is the case, and i can prove it, i will fuck these bitches up!

[stevesMSP]

If you're beating the shit out of your car, that's your warning sign. These cars weren't made for racing.your no fun

[sweetlou69]

ya they pretty much just go instantly.. ull hear a grind, feel the gears slip and then game over.. def sucks

[msp35]

I guess looking back I started to notice a faint grinding feeling @ the very end of the clutch pedal. On occasion I could also BARELY hear the what I thought coincided with the feeling. Then again maybe my clutch was worn too. Althoug it never slipped.

[miss_steele_msp]

i had the pop grind thing as well and Mazda said that my clutch was fucked, then after about a day, the time in which they replaced the clutch, they called and said that the diff was fucked up as well but it was covered under warranty. now i am thinking that they told me that the clutch was fucked and it was really the LSD, they just wanted to charge me 900 dollars. So what do you guys think ab this? its kinda making me mad. If that is the case, and i can prove it, i will fuck these bitches up!

Yup they just wanted you to pay 900. I told the dealer it was my lsd. They insisted it was my clutch they said they would cover the lsd under warranty only if I let them fix my clutch, which was still in great condition. I called Mazda on them and they refused to service my car at all, so I had to take it to another speed dealer 2 hours away.

[GreySpeed]

Exact same thing happened to me, dealer insisted it was the clutch even before they put the car on the lift, I saw right through their BS, they pulled out the diff and it was done. FU Mazda.

[miss_steele_msp]

Exact same thing happened to me, dealer insisted it was the clutch even before they put the car on the lift, I saw right through their BS, they pulled out the diff and it was done. FU Mazda.

That is exactly how I feel about mazda now too. I will never buy another mazda again.

[orng1]

Dealers suck, I used to work for a dealer and when we would right the repair order we would add 1hr diag even if it would be covered under warranty that way if it was something the customer caused they would have already agreed to pay that amount. They sucked the big one, and mazda seems to be just as bad as they void the warranty for almost anything. I'm really surprized that a lot of you guys are getting it covered.

[spacemonkey]

54,000 miles and problem free. So far im very happy with my MSP and especially the LSD for not caping out on me. im begining to think it is the way you drive your car.

Warrenty is up so I guess it doesnt matter what the dealer says because I'll be paying for it. So far the only time I been back to the dealer is for the reflash.

[msp35]

54,000 miles and problem free. So far im very happy with my MSP and especially the LSD for not caping out on me. im begining to think it is the way you drive your car.


So your saying that: going straight in 1st gear @ 3000 rpms and punching it is bad driving. IMO Mazda put a piece of shit lsd in the car and never owned up to it, thus the revision(s). Yours will break if not while you own it, it will on the next owner. Tis only a matter of time.

[BOOSTR]

No one knows for certain. I'm guilty of punching it on occassion. Uneven surfaces and corners can be more detrimental to it than straightaways I believe. Having killed a few cars in my day, I have no doubt that driving style plays a huge factor in the equation. But sometimes mechanical things simply fail without reason or warning.

[spacemonkey]

So your saying that: going straight in 1st gear @ 3000 rpms and punching it is bad driving. IMO Mazda put a piece of shit lsd in the car and never owned up to it, thus the revision(s). Yours will break if not while you own it, it will on the next owner. Tis only a matter of time.

I would say your not telling the truth and you probally brought it to the drag strip a couple times. Had a bad launch with a killer wheel hop and toasted your LSD.

or at a light you "accidently" got pedal happy and gave your car a good dose of wheel hop.

You see thats the main difference...when I race my car I dont try to get the best possible launch or "hook" the car. I ease into it. Of course I dont really drag race my car either. I do drive conservatively when im not on the track. No need to be a hero and shoot off every light and corner to prove something.


You tell me why there are cars with alot more milage then me on the SAME original LSD?


um still no break :dunno:

BTW I am a delivery driver ;) and I autocross my car with MArtin Motorsport and SCCA. I also been to Seabring and Gainesville to participate in road racing events.

I say the LSD held up pretty well and gave me a 3rd place finish in my class.;)

BTW it hasnt been a huge problem in Orlando either. And I assume we have quite a bit of MSP here too from what I noticed in the past. I know a couple tech at one of the two only Mazda dealerships in town. They havent done much LSD replacement. I cant maybe think of one. A certain yellow one who the driver drives like a maniac. His MSP has been in few times Actually. Threw a bearing, fried a piston ring, LSD and something with tranny.