DSM AFC installed - NEED FMIC MAP

[jeffmsp]

hey guys,

finnally got the AFC in. Install was a breeze, no I didnt cut myself/ mounted the unit in the glovebox. The car is driving ok, its not a huge difference and the drivability has actually suffered a bit. I need to get the car tuned to get the full potential out of this thing. Car is either detonating or the a/f is waay off around 3K because it almost feels like Im hitting Fuel cut which I thought was supposed to be eliminated with the afc. Sometimes starting off from 1st even the car will start bucking back and forth around 3k. After 4K and going WOT the car pulls like a beast. 1st gear is useless, 2nd is good over 4K, 3rd gear is MONEY BABY :) 4 is good but cruising on the highway in 5th is terrible since the car is between 3 and 4K. doesnt stop bucking around. Still very happy with the unit, I just need a trip to the dyno or someone elses map to get it running right-I have alot of mods that are making the a/fs wacky.

If anyone out there has a FMIC map or any map they think may help my problems could you please post it up. Also, did anyone get around to making a WRX 440 map? My injectors are sitting here and it would be great to get someone elses map as a starting point for my own tuning!


Thanks, Jeff

[jeffmsp]

bump-its friday i need the fmic map for the weekend, anyone got one? Gonna try using the afc and the methenol injection together this weekend too hopefully.

[ONRAILS]

That sounds like the simptoms my car is having... almost exact. But I don't have the AFC. I was hoping the AFC would fix that out of the box!

[peepsalot]

the fmic map is on the website
http://www.airflowlogistics.com/html/downloads_main_page.html

[tallrd]

That sounds like the simptoms my car is having... almost exact. But I don't have the AFC. I was hoping the AFC would fix that out of the box!

I have the AFC unit and it did *not* fix it out of the box (even with the FMIC map loaded and the apropriate PSI accounted for). I will say that it did make the car run a lot better until it started getting cold. Now my car backfires every single day...a lot...loud. Either way, it needs to be tuned off a dyno chart using the software it comes with b/c the car still runs rich as hell. My gas mileage is actually worse in the colder weather than it was before I got the unit at all. Don't count on DSM for help either. They are *impossible* to get a hold of. Good guys but too busy to help customers. You may want to consider something else instead...

[RallyeRedSi]

my car been acting up for the past couple days but i think its because i have boost/vacuum leak,

[jeffmsp]

nice ill try the fmic map today, did you guys notcie an improvement with it?

BTW- as for backfiring, mine did it all the time, now with the afc i never backfire even when i try to by blipping the throttle before a downshift. Its pretty cold here too, but i think im running too lean rather than too rich, especially around 3K

[livelyjay]

You guys needs to get a WBO2, period. It's worth the money. I am using the super map with my mods (FMIC, CAI) and I have no problems with bucking. Since it has gotten a bit colder in the morning it acts up a little bit when shifting under load, but it is still a lot better than stock. I haven't used the FMIC map yet.

What I can do is graph out the fuel curve with the super map, then load the FMIC map and graph out the fuel curve for that and see the difference. With the outside air being colder, your A/F mixture will be richer than when it's warmer just due to physics, but you shouldn't see bucking like that. Maybe I could develop a winter and summer map so we can avoid these problems. Only issue is that it would be dangerous to run the winter map during the summer.

[jeffmsp]

sweet. that would be awsome if you could

where can I find a wideband for a really good deal? all the afc guys should go in a GB for a wideband.

[jeffmsp]

hmm i am not able to open the map on my home computer even when i right click and Select Save Targat As... think i will be able to load it onto the afc later tonight without problems? i thought the maps were in excel not access?

[TenaciousB]

sweet. that would be awsome if you could

where can I find a wideband for a really good deal? all the afc guys should go in a GB for a wideband.


yeah, a group buy would be sweet..... (thumb)

[jeffmsp]

[quote]hmm i am not able to open the map on my home computer even when i right click and Select Save Targat As... think i will be able to load it onto the afc later tonight without problems? i thought the maps were in excel not access?
[/wuote]

anyone? when i try to open the file it says "...file is located outside your intranet or on an untrusted site. access will not open file due to potential security problems..."

yes i tried right click save as as directed on the webpage.

[byohndspeed]

i tried and was able to download it. weird that you cant. what is your email, i'll send it over to you.

[jeffmsp]

jeffros69b@hotmail.com

thanks alot. I am using Office XP PRO so I dont know why it wont work, I tried at work and same deal.

I installed a EMS called "speedbrain" into my buddies 95 Stang GT yesterday. He has a bunch of mods like GT40 heads, headers, cam etc and he was running high 13s. Without even bringing the car to a dyno, just doing some tuning in the driveway on the speedbrain the car pulls alot harder. I hope i have as good results with my afc./

[byohndspeed]

sent it.

[jeffmsp]

damn my hotmail and home email block the attachement. Please try in msn later tonight :)

BUMP!!! - ANYBODY GOT A WRX 440 MAP?

[tallrd]

I know there are a lot of hobbyists on here (including myself), but do any of you feel 100% confident in your ability to tune the AFC based off a dyno? I can't get any replies from DSM and I don't know enough about a/f's to start playing the numbers game with it yet. That's the whole reason I purchased it; their claim that they would be able to do a custom map based off a dyno.

I feel like I got screwed, and am kind of searching for help on this.

[jeffmsp]

im not going to be doing a very aggressive tune since I'll be using 91 octane. I usually get 94 so that should rule out some deto. and the meth kit is pretty much a second bandaid until i can afford a j and s.(together they will work wonders though) If I could get the boost to stop spiking as much I would go for an aggressive tune, but I still cant control it enough to rule out blowing a motor.

[jeffmsp]

byhondspeed that fmic map you sent me..in the aquisition data table you have cylinders 3...any reason why? do you have a bad idle? ;)

[livelyjay]

I'm confident because I have a WBO2 sensor. I tuned the super map a bit and made it a bit richer in the upper power band because it was getting towards 13:1 and I think the stock ECU was pulling timing. My tunes were pretty much guess and check though. Before I'm able to log boost (I need a MAP sensor for that) I'm going to log what the AFC is doing when (RPM and which part of the map it's looking at) and then log RPM and A/F. That should give me a pretty good clue as to what changes I need to make to the map. Once I am able to log boost I'll be able to tune this thing without any problems.

[livelyjay]

If I could get the boost to stop spiking as much I would go for an aggressive tune, but I still cant control it enough to rule out blowing a motor.
You should get a more reliable boost controller. Although, that might not solve the issue either, but I've heard the JoeP isn't very reliable or precise.

[byohndspeed]

byhondspeed that fmic map you sent me..in the aquisition data table you have cylinders 3...any reason why? do you have a bad idle? ;)

thats not my map. that came from dsm's website. i changed nothing

[byohndspeed]

as for boost spike, i have just installed a vacuum manifold and that seem to clear up some spike. i went to home depot and bought everything i need for 20$. seems to work great.the boost is alittle more solid and spikes less.

[jeffmsp]

honestly, ive tried a bunch of mbcs and they are the same for me. I tried my joePs on another mazdaspeed and it spiked more than his, so I tried his in my car and it did the same thing as the joeP. Ive had mazda look at the turbo and they say its fine but I dunno. Say if I am it 10psi at 4K at 5K Im around 9, by 6.5K Im around 8 which is pretty much my stock boost. Im just going to adjust the wastegate to my desired boost when my warranty expires in 3000K.

Can you post a pic of the vacume manifold you made?

Do people who have the stock supermap and a fmic/exhaust feel like there is still fuel cut? (especially in the cold around 10psi) I checked out my motor to make sure I wasnt detonating and the plugs look good, compression is good and ive been running 94 on stock boost until I get it tuned.

[jeffmsp]

honestly, ive tried a bunch of mbcs and they are the same for me. I tried my joePs on another mazdaspeed and it spiked more than his, so I tried his in my car and it did the same thing as the joeP. Ive had mazda look at the turbo and they say its fine but I dunno. Say if I am it 10psi at 4K at 5K Im around 9, by 6.5K Im around 8 which is pretty much my stock boost. Im just going to adjust the wastegate to my desired boost when my warranty expires in 3000K.

Can you post a pic of the vacume manifold you made?

Do people who have the stock supermap and a fmic/exhaust feel like there is still fuel cut? (especially in the cold around 10psi) I checked out my motor to make sure I wasnt detonating and the plugs look good, compression is good.

[jeffmsp]

are people using that map with the cylinder set on 3?

[tallrd]

I'm confident because I have a WBO2 sensor. I tuned the super map a bit and made it a bit richer in the upper power band because it was getting towards 13:1 and I think the stock ECU was pulling timing. My tunes were pretty much guess and check though. Before I'm able to log boost (I need a MAP sensor for that) I'm going to log what the AFC is doing when (RPM and which part of the map it's looking at) and then log RPM and A/F. That should give me a pretty good clue as to what changes I need to make to the map. Once I am able to log boost I'll be able to tune this thing without any problems.

Do you represent DSM, or are you simply a very helpful forum member? :D

[livelyjay]

Do you represent DSM, or are you simply a very helpful forum member? :D
I represent myself, and try to help out everyone else in any way I can, which is the point of forums such as this one. I haven't been able to do anything I said though. I'll probably get to it Sunday morning since the fiance is out of town and no one is out on the roads in the morning. I'll keep you guys updated.

[tallrd]

I represent myself, and try to help out everyone else in any way I can, which is the point of forums such as this one. I haven't been able to do anything I said though. I'll probably get to it Sunday morning since the fiance is out of town and no one is out on the roads in the morning. I'll keep you guys updated.

The reason I asked was because I thought John at DSM stated he worked with someone by the name of Jay. I didn't want you to think I was prying for prying's sake. What goes around comes around as far as helping people :)

[jeffmsp]

man o man. I loaded the FMIC map and the car runs like complete crap. Its almost as bad as having a blown IC pipe.I loaded the map at my work so I didnt have a copy of the supermap on me, and its amazing I managed to even get the car home. Its too bad, I was hoping it would make everything good again, Im actually missing the stock af maps lol. I think im going to uninstall this thing and wait for a better EMS or the cash to grab a WB, no way Im paying $70/hour for dyno time when the 1st hour will be wasted showing the guy how the software works.

[jeffmsp]

on a side note i really liked the R4 software. It was easy to navigate and the 3D map feature is really cool. Also happy it has the integrated gauges and all the extra features, the software makes the AFC purchase worth it for me.

btw anyone else up for a WB groupbuy>?

[Moeed]

on a side note i really liked the R4 software. It was easy to navigate and the 3D map feature is really cool. Also happy it has the integrated gauges and all the extra features, the software makes the AFC purchase worth it for me.

btw anyone else up for a WB groupbuy>?

I wish you woulda said this a week ago. Just bought me a zeitronix w/b. By far best bang for the buck imo.

www.zeitronix.com

[jeffmsp]

are your guys readings on the built in boost gauge accurate with your mechanical gauges? I checked everywhere to see if there were any kinks but they arent and it isnt reading the same as my mech. maybe mines defective and thats why im having problems..how long is your vac line from the engine bay? mines not too bad but i have it fed in from the drivers side. If the sensor isnt reading right then I am in for some fun, I wonder if I can reuse the boost sensor from some of my other toys or if I have to contact DSM.


also, I reloaded the supermap today. Any chance its slightly different than the supermap that comes programmed with it?

[jeffmsp]

are your guys readings on the built in boost gauge accurate with your mechanical gauges?

bump

[livelyjay]

I wish you woulda said this a week ago. Just bought me a zeitronix w/b. By far best bang for the buck imo.

www.zeitronix.com
Well, I think the AFC was the best bang for the buck, but the Zeitronix WBO2 is a close second.

I'll be doing some AFC playing this weekend, probably Saturday after the autocross or Sunday morning. I'll check the readings from the AFC and see if the correspond to the readings from my boost gauge. It may be they are just showing up in different measurements.

[tallrd]

is it just me, or has DSM dropped off the face of the earth? Has anyone else been able to get any help from them?

[Blue_Speed]

yo jeff. just a fyi. i was browsing around forums and found srtforums is running a GB for AEM wideband for 325shipped here's link. http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180796&page=1&pp=15

[jeffmsp]

whatt! mint blue speed :)

ok I think the issues im having are specific to my unit.I pulled it out yesterday, shook it around a bunch, ran new vac line thats the EXACT same size as the afc unit,(my old vac was slightl;y larger) cut 6 inches off the length of the vac line and even gave it a new vac source. I reset everything and reloaded the supermap. I plugged in my PC (No laptop :( ) and guess what theres vac pressure and everything works, I took it for a spin around the block and the car drives mint. Came back let the car cool off. Maybe an hour later I start it up, go for a drive and shit just goes bad all over again, car drives like it is leaking from an intercooler pipe or something. I check all the connections over again, shake the thing again(i dunno maybe somethings loose inside) and try it out, still crap. Im 100% sure the boost sensor isnt working right now, but sometimes it works and the afc functions as advertised. I gotta find out whats screwing mine up.

[jeffmsp]

also, drivability issues are greatly improved with the stock bpv on. I was running just a BOV before. When I go to get it tuned or get the WB I'll switch over to my maf on the IC to TB pipe, but right now Im already paranoid enough about running lean.

[tallrd]

whatt! mint blue speed :)

ok I think the issues im having are specific to my unit.I pulled it out yesterday, shook it around a bunch, ran new vac line thats the EXACT same size as the afc unit,(my old vac was slightl;y larger) cut 6 inches off the length of the vac line and even gave it a new vac source. I reset everything and reloaded the supermap. I plugged in my PC (No laptop :( ) and guess what theres vac pressure and everything works, I took it for a spin around the block and the car drives mint. Came back let the car cool off. Maybe an hour later I start it up, go for a drive and shit just goes bad all over again, car drives like it is leaking from an intercooler pipe or something. I check all the connections over again, shake the thing again(i dunno maybe somethings loose inside) and try it out, still crap. Im 100% sure the boost sensor isnt working right now, but sometimes it works and the afc functions as advertised. I gotta find out whats screwing mine up.


Do you have a photo of your vac/boost source? I had to actually call John @ DSM before getting it correct b/c I had similar problems; it wasn't where I thought is was...twice. Now, my vac source is right, and the only concern I have is at idle it goes way rich. Driveability is actually really good on the car and that's never really changed; just idle *sometimes*. DSM told me that the unit shouldn't be doing anything at idle and the ecu doesn't learn around it. however, it seems the ecu is compensating somewhat b/c as soon as I let off the throttle to neutral it backfires like it's almost flooding from fuel in the mixture. It never did that before the DSM was installed.

[jeffmsp]

i just tapped the brake booster, what did you tap?

[tallrd]

i just tapped the brake booster, what did you tap?

hopefully the photo isn't too close up so that you can tell where it is. Red arrow is the vac/boost source for the DSM and the green arrow is the source for my boost guage. I've heard people using the brake booster line for the DSM, but I wanted a dedicated boost AND vac source, and not just the vac source. It works great like this when my foot is on the gas even a little, but as soon as I go to neutral/idle it goes rich and *pow*...backfire. That's my whole dilema.
See what others on here think about your vac source; maybe your luck would change if that was relocated to what I used. DSM saw this photo and confirmed that it's the correct spot.

[jeffmsp]

the brake booster will only show vac, not boost? That could be my problem, Ill swap it out to see if there a diff/

[jeffmsp]

no diff :( Im gonna get it on a dyno before I screw around with anything else. Im sure that will be able to help tell me whats going wrong and where. Im thinking that because I am making much more efficient boost than a stock msp the afs are off, especially under 4K

[livelyjay]

Sorry guys, I didn't get around to playing with the AFC this weekend like I had thought. I had to deal with a possible buyer for my roommates car and decided it would be a good weekend to work with fiberglass in the trunk since it was sunny out. Got the backplane to the sub box built, now I just have to build it up and connect it to the rest of the fiberglass box from my previous car.

I might be able to get some AFC work done tomorrow though, since I'll be working from home Tuesdays and Fridays from now on.

[jeffmsp]

i think ive got everything running alright now. The stock BPV must be used if you havent reloacted the maf. The car falls on its face when it sees boost with the stock map and with the fmic map the car runs amazing when in boost, when not between 2-4K. in daily driving its really off but Im sure its just a matter of tuning now. The afc is registering the vac and boost now.

Results:

10psi spike - 8psi at redline. 4 runs with a srdet early 90s 240sx. The 240 runs 14.5s at the track consistently. We only had 1 race from a stop but the MS won everytime we ran. This is using 91 octane at close to stock boost levels and the car pulls hard on the 240 regardless of what gear or rpm we are in. I also played around with a sti for a few lights, from 2nd gear on I think I can beat the sti no problem, im sure if we went from a stop his awd would make a big diff and I'd get smoked, but from 2nd on they arent that quick and if they are losing 20% of their HP they are putting down like 240whp and im pretty sure they weigh more than a MS too. I talked to the guy at the lights and he said he was impressed with the MS. When I told him I was running 10psi he thought I was lying hehe (first) anyways dyno time soon/ so stay tuned.


on an unrelated note, has anyone been able to adjust the stock wastegate without taking out everything, I can get a wrench on it but there is no space to turn,,very frustrating.

[lcruz64]

Downloads ------->>>>> WRX 440cc Maps

[jeffmsp]

ill post em up dont worry.ill send them to john too so he can put em on his website. i just got my home internet connection working again, never trust an onboard ethernet adaptor lol.

[lcruz64]

Are you tunning in a dyno or road tunning?

[jeffmsp]

dyno, but i dont know how im gonna be able to drive the car to the dyno with the 440s installed. Any ideas on how I should modify the stock super map to get the car drivable so i can drive it there with the injectors already in? somebody said that I should cut the values in half for a basemap with 440s. i dont wanna pay this guy more money to install the injectors at the shop/ any ideas?

also anyone notice that when you put the supermap that came with it into 3D mode you get a nice 3D graph, but when you put the maps off his website in 3D they just look flat accross the board even though the table values are much different than the other one..?

[peepsalot]

Should only take a minute to swap injectors I think. You could do it yourself at the dyno.

[byohndspeed]

i would try to cut the values down a bit. maybe not in half but maybe 30%. that should get you good enough.

[lcruz64]

Don't touch the tuning unless you have a wideband, just go to the dyno make one pull on the stock then swap the injectors which will take like 5 min. without taking the car off the dyno and just start tuning from there.

[peepsalot]

4x 12mm bolts to remove the fuel rail IIRC. And careful about dropping one of those stupid plastic spacers into the depths of your engine bay.

[jeffmsp]

ok i just talked to the guy at the shop. We are gonna put the WB in the downpipe and tune with 91 octane. No aggressive a/fs [yet. Then since i am running 94 octane as my pump gas I should be ok but i will still probobly throw the injection kit back in for safety. going to inject mostly water, little meth thinking 4:1. When I get a WB i'll see what kind of numbers I will put down with an aggressive tune. Im hoping that I will put down at least 200whp at 10psi. If everything still looks good Ill up to 12ish and see what it can do. Its a mustang dyno so the numbers will have to be converted. What does 200whp work out to on a mustang dyno like 185whp?

[jeffmsp]

well i did a bit of home tuning today. Adjusted the values of the FMIC map to 10 at 3K and 3.5Krpm up to 2psi. Car runs perfect. Absolutely no complaints. Product works as advertised. Im running low 14s on near stock boost and I didnt even bring it to the dyno yet. Best $275 ive spent on the car to date. I cant wait to see how much more power I wil get after the dyno.

[DSMConvert]

woot glad to hear jeff....to get the 440s "driveable" you need to cut values by 42% above 3K and around 50% at idle settings...

[sandspeed]

dsmconvert do you have a shop in tampa to work or tune the afc on cars or no? just wandering because my next mod is the afc? just a quick question
sounds to me like your car drives ten times better (jeffmsp) im looking for the same performance
later

[DSMConvert]

we do, unfortunately for insurance reasons we can only house cars that are part of our porsche contract....they pay the bills so they make the rules...however i'm usually around at events to help tune on the fly...i fried my 02 logging software last week so i wont be able to tune on the fly till i can get that back up and running...adjusting values with knowing O2s is a very very dangerous game to play...

[tallrd]

DSM: Could you please tell me why you did not respond to my phone call or email requesting your help several weeks ago? This is not an attack, but I feel like I must be missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere (poke) .

I hate feeling like I'm told one thing prior to the sale and then I get no response from you *after* I purchase it. Very disheartening when I'm in need of product support.

[DSMConvert]

Shawn, I apologize for not getting back to you. one of my lead guys had to quit due to family in LA and I've been short handed the past month. I've just gotten one of my old techs back on with me so emails and phone calls should be back to normal response time. Also with the beginning of race season a number of the race teams have been "throwing their weight around" demanding unusual amounts of time from me. Thi isn't meant to be an excuse, just an explanation to let you know I didn't mean to ignore you, it was just a really eventful month here. You do have a legitimate complaint, so I can understand your frustrations. On the support note as noted I do have my old techie back onboard. his name on here is ----> AirFlowTech <----- email --->russ@airflowlogistics.com <----- His sole job is answering your emails and pms. If he doesn't respond to you within 48hrs feel free to harrass the hell out of me.

[tallrd]

thank you for replying and taking my concerns for what they are worth without getting defensive.

Have you considered changing your voice mail to reflect to people that longer call back times are a potential during those busy times?

There was some controversy about whether or not the afc does anything with the car at idle. Do you have a definite answer to this?



Shawn, I apologize for not getting back to you. one of my lead guys had to quit due to family in LA and I've been short handed the past month. I've just gotten one of my old techs back on with me so emails and phone calls should be back to normal response time. Also with the beginning of race season a number of the race teams have been "throwing their weight around" demanding unusual amounts of time from me. Thi isn't meant to be an excuse, just an explanation to let you know I didn't mean to ignore you, it was just a really eventful month here. You do have a legitimate complaint, so I can understand your frustrations. On the support note as noted I do have my old techie back onboard. his name on here is ----> AirFlowTech <----- email --->russ@airflowlogistics.com <----- His sole job is answering your emails and pms. If he doesn't respond to you within 48hrs feel free to harrass the hell out of me.

[DSMConvert]

When correctly configured the afc will not alter any values until the boost pressure reaches 1psi...under idle conditions the car should be at -22Hg, so the afc will not even be active. However it has been brought to my attention that a few have had the boost value for activation setting appear to be at -18psi which would in theory mean the afc was on at idle, this seemed to be limited though to a few AFCs which had glitches in the maps. The second issue is that the afc does alter and adjust values when driving so when the car goes back to idle and the AFC "turns off" the ecu sees significantly different values then it is used to seeing. This seems to be on a per user basis. SOme never experience this problem while a few others do. So its not so much a problem with the AFC as it is a problem with the ecu not knowing how to react without the AFC controlling it. I have suggested making a map that would also include idle settings, but since the problem varies widely from car to car it would have to be done as needed on individual's cars taht have the problem. The AFC is more than capable of controlling idle settings as well if we design a map to do it. Shawn I've never had a problem with customers expressing their concerns, as long as they do it as adults as you have done there is no reason for me to get defensive or make excuses. I would rather that everyone have all the facts and make their own decisions. The biggest cause of comsumer/company bashing is not everyone being honest and sticking to facts rather than opinions.

[tallrd]

cool. (first)

[jeffmsp]

well i dont think im gonna bother getting it tuned, there is too much snow on the road to justify needing to go faster. At the end of the month im gonna take the car off the road and do some building. It will be tuned for spring now Im thinking. Now I gotta go find a 2nd gen Escort winter beater :) Canada eh

[jeffmsp]

figure Im going to swap in the T28 compressor wheel and housing over the winter, install the 440s and a few other toys before I get it tuned now. Wonder what kind of power the stock motor can take. I havent heard of anyone with good tuning + methenol injection on the stock motor so we will see how she goes. Hopefully I will have a new exhaust manifold soon too. So much to do, so little time

[tallrd]

I was told my unit was shipped to me with the FMIC map, but after installing the supermap...well...just read post #28 here:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2135887#post2135887