Vishnu XEDE progress

[KaliCali]

Hi all,

Found out few things today. The Protege ecu is the same ecu found in the Ford Falcon offered overseas. ChipTorque (manufacturer of the XEDE) already has an application that fits with the Ford Falcon. So in a week or so we'll be able to find out what the XEDE can offer for our cars.

I also want to know how interested the community is; how many of you would actually be interested in the XEDE? Only reason we're doing testing on it is because I work for Vishnu and happen to own an MSP as well. If there is enough interest, we can sell it =P

Theres more info here about the XEDE tuner computer:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_support_evo.htm

[Moeed]

Interesting. More info for sure.

[Captain KRM P5]

purty kewl, subbin' for info

[anarchistchiken]

Our ECU is also used in a lot of other ford cars. It's the EEC-4 (I think that's the right name) ECU, and it's a great unit. The problem we have is that Mazda wrote all the code badly and then locked it all up so that it couldn't be moddified. People have tried to hack into the ECU before and it's probably going to take more effert than a simple plug'n'tune unit. I hope it works, but just dont get your hopes up.

[mspeed101]

subscribes

[505zoom]

Our ECU is also used in a lot of other ford cars. It's the EEC-4 (I think that's the right name) ECU, and it's a great unit. The problem we have is that Mazda wrote all the code badly and then locked it all up so that it couldn't be moddified. People have tried to hack into the ECU before and it's probably going to take more effert than a simple plug'n'tune unit. I hope it works, but just dont get your hopes up.

Our PCM is actually the EEC-V (5). I agree with pretty much everything else you are saying, but I think it would be awesome to see another EMS solution out there.

I hope it works out for you guys.

[SpicyMchaggis]

if it's free, it's for me

[tekkie]

cool stuff I hope it works :)

[BOOSTR]

Very interested. I hope that it works out and comes to market soon.

[txrxs]

very interesting.

[RyanJayG]

the Mazda code in the Ford EEC-V is not mystical, its not difficult, its just that noone gives a fuck about mazda's that run this code, and will not sink the money to disect it. its very doable, just not cheap..

and all EEC computers are chippable, so it would be easy to do. Just try to get someone to read the code, and dissemble it

[Spooled]

(alright)

[ChopstickHero]

It will be interesting to see another EMS compete. If it works well, the XEDE will give the Unichip a run for it's money. But yeah, facts and proof that it works well first.

[peepsalot]

twould be nice

[Spooled]

So this is basically like Hondata, but for cars other than Honda? That's exactly what I'm looking for.

[BOOSTR]

I have driven an EVO that has this in it. It works quite well in that application, so there is no reason to think it won't in an MSP, provided they can reasonably get it to do so. Vishnu is a well respected company and has great products.

[KaliCali]

Thank you! lol

Good to see there is positive response. I'll report back when there is any forward progress.


It will be interesting to see another EMS compete. If it works well, the XEDE will give the Unichip a run for it's money. But yeah, facts and proof that it works well first.

The XEDE will most definitely give the Unichip a run for its money. We used to use the Unichip with the WRXs but have long since upgraded to using the XEDE. As soon as we can get some results... you'll see the XEDE is a much more powerful tuning tool than most of the EMS' out there (thumb)

[36Crazyfists]

So this is basically like Hondata, but for cars other than Honda? That's exactly what I'm looking for.

I have heard of hondata...but can you get specific on what it does and its benefits?

[ChopstickHero]

I have heard of hondata...but can you get specific on what it does and its benefits?

http://www.hondata.com/aboutus.html

[geomatics_tech]

I want EMS in the spring.

[Ljspeed]

Definitely interested and HAVE been interested for a while. I think you brought this up a while back or I saw some post about Vishnu and possibly tuning a MSP. I will be all over this if I keep my car. May be trading out soon but things like this may change or delay my decision;)

[MrDiggler]

Yep. Keeping an eye on this too. EMS is definitely in my future as well and Vishnu does have a good reputation. I hope somebody can figure it out.

[KaliCali]

Hey guys just a little update. We received the prototype unit from Australia today (thumb) So hopefully we'll start testing next week before Thanksgiving.. heh. Here are some pictures of the unit.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/KaliCali/MSP%20Xede%201.JPG http://www.msprotege.com/members/KaliCali/MSP%20Xede%202.JPG

[peepsalot]

veddy nice

[ChopstickHero]

looks promising!

[atticus1398]

subs

[haze20]

subs

[chaos2015]

sub

[daedalus]

wow... subbing for info. There are a couple of local cars running XEDE and i must say its a great system. Anything performance wise that is new to this community would be a good thing. our aftermarket is stagnent.

[ChopstickHero]

wow... subbing for info. There are a couple of local cars running XEDE and i must say its a great system. Anything performance wise that is new to this community would be a good thing. our aftermarket is stagnent.

yeah, i would love to see Vishnu develop some "power kits" for the MSP, similar to have they have power kits for the STi and EVO. yeah, they have a larger market, but i think we have a loyal following that would purchase new products.

[mspHtown]

sub

[BOOSTR]

Xactly what I want to see. Progress has begun. Staying tuned.

[18sOnAiR]

subing

Frank
92 EGT
03.5 MSP
05 ZX-6R<!-- / message -->

[byohndspeed]

sounds great. cant wait to see what happens..

[JDM Sam]

Damn, Shiv and his gang shoulda got this done a year ago when I contacted y'all with a test bed! Well hope to see it working soon!

[03BlkMicaSPD]

sub

[Micah]

Anyone wanna start a pool on this one? 5 to 1 odds?

[jeffmsp]

looks sweet.

[Puckpimp71]

Anyone wanna start a pool on this one? 5 to 1 odds?
I'm in.

[sandspeed]

nice

[flat_black]

Hmm... San Jose, huh? About 30 minutes away. You doing this through a shop, or just on your own? I'd like to see how this pans out. =)

[mspHtown]

any updates?!

[KaliCali]

Not YET!! and your avatar is disturbing!

[Hypnotized]

Im very interested to see how this pans out. I cant wait to see the results.

[brealmp3]

sub

[ArrestYellowMSP]

I hope this works out. So frustrating having the car bog down so much when it could be so much faster.

[Boston5761]

will it work for the P5?

[flat_black]

I'm going to voulenteer my car to find out, if need be. =) I'm right near him. And I'm going to be buying his suspension. Hehe.

[vindication]

nice stuff. just a couple n00b question hopefully yall wont mind answering. What is the difference between this and an EMS such as the microtech or e6x, etc.? Does one tune this or do you get it pre-tunned. Advantages/disadvantages to this over an EMS such as Microtech/e6x/AEM/etc? thanks

[Installshield 2]

nice stuff. just a couple n00b question hopefully yall wont mind answering. What is the difference between this and an EMS such as the microtech or e6x, etc.? Does one tune this or do you get it pre-tunned. Advantages/disadvantages to this over an EMS such as Microtech/e6x/AEM/etc? thanks

From the website it appears like this is more of UniChip type computer...that is more of piggyback, but a good one at that...But I didn't read enough to see if it is user programmable or not...Either way, if it is like the Unichip, it will be cheaper than some of the full standalone options most likely...

[ChopstickHero]

From the website it appears like this is more of UniChip type computer...that is more of piggyback, but a good one at that...But I didn't read enough to see if it is user programmable or not...Either way, if it is like the Unichip, it will be cheaper than some of the full standalone options most likely...

yeah, read up on Vishnu's website to see how it works in the Evo or STI/WRX. works the same way as a Unichip where it will be plug and play. If Shiv can pull out some good numbers on this, i might trade in my Unichip.

[vindication]

it datalogs correct? if so seeing as the ECU code is cracked, does it make adjustments to deal with the colder weather, etc.?

[KaliCali]

will it work for the P5?
It will work for a P5 =) Assuming that the XEDE will work on the MSP


From the website it appears like this is more of UniChip type computer...that is more of piggyback, but a good one at that...But I didn't read enough to see if it is user programmable or not...Either way, if it is like the Unichip, it will be cheaper than some of the full standalone options most likely...

We like to call it an Interceptor computer =P But unlike the Unichip it is fully user programable. I would like this to be a plug-and-play unit, but I'm having problems finding a Harness to do so. Anybody with any leads on where I could get one.. tha'd be helpful.

Its definitely a more ecconomical solution to a full standalone, as well as logical. You get all the controll of a standalone while keeping all the factory fail-safes that Mazda has spent millions of dollars on programing.


it datalogs correct? if so seeing as the ECU code is cracked, does it make adjustments to deal with the colder weather, etc.?

Yep it datalogs. I don't understand the second part of your question tho. Who cracked the ECU code?

We do have an XEDE add-on for the EVO and MSM XEDEs called the SMART system, which can make adjustments to the tune based on different environmental variables (ie temp, octane and altitude).

[vindication]

I was just saying about the ECU cracking....I thought it would be cracked for this to work? yes, no, maybe?

[KaliCali]

I was just saying about the ECU cracking....I thought it would be cracked for this to work? yes, no, maybe?


No, the ECU is not cracked. If it were we'd have less headache and someone could offer a reflash and everyone would be happy... lol.

The XEDE will intercept and modify signals going to the ECU.

[Boston5761]

if it does work what price are we talking about??

[vindication]

No, the ECU is not cracked. If it were we'd have less headache and someone could offer a reflash and everyone would be happy... lol.

The XEDE will intercept and modify signals going to the ECU.
ohh, got you. I was confused cause I thought you guys were gonna crack the code. OK, nevermind I get it now.

[mp3moose]

mmm, finallllllllllllly.

[KaliCali]

if it does work what price are we talking about??

We list our XEDEs at $995

[FSDET]

subs.. even tho im sellin my speed

[Spooled]

So what's the timeline on this? Any dates planned for testing or more info? Is this definitely going through?

[KaliCali]

So what's the timeline on this? Any dates planned for testing or more info? Is this definitely going through?

Yea... this will happen sooner or later.. lol. We've just been swamped this week with local instals and tunes that we haven't had an hour of dyno time to test. =T

I'm shooting for it to be done before Xmas.

[Spooled]

Yea... this will happen sooner or later.. lol. We've just been swamped this week with local instals and tunes that we haven't had an hour of dyno time to test. =T

I'm shooting for it to be done before Xmas.

Good to hear! I totally understand that you need to take care of your customers first.

[goku4658]

subscrizzle

[ARD MP5]

Yo where are you guys located now? Vishnu?

[KaliCali]

Yo where are you guys located now? Vishnu?

We have a new shop located in beautiful BLACKHAWK (thumb) / Danville.

[BOOSTR]

Glad to hear it is progressing well. I know what I want from Santa.

[ND4MSP]

Damn, Blackhawk. Thats richman's land isn't it? You guys must be doing well.

[KaliCali]

Damn, Blackhawk. Thats richman's land isn't it? You guys must be doing well.

~_^

[Micah]

I'm in.

Just get the MPI tuner already. Matty's Womp project has a better chance of being finished successfully than this thing.

::edit:: - nevermind - at the beginning of this thread I really thought this was going to be a full standalone and not a piggyback solution.

Someone should do a feature comparison between this, and the unichip, and the mpi tuner. It won't be me, I'm done with proteges for now, just here to enjoy the company and watch the occasional CARnage.

Good luck!

[GA_MZDASPEED]

anything new on this............?

[lcruz64]

bump

[KaliCali]

The XEDE works on the car, I'll have dyno graphs in a few days

[ChopstickHero]

The XEDE works on the car, I'll have dyno graphs in a few days


woohooo! great job. please post details!

[Spooled]

The XEDE works on the car, I'll have dyno graphs in a few days

I wish there was a smile face for [chubby]

[low_psi]

Hell yes. Please send one directly to me and I will be happy and stuff

[brealmp3]

any idea on price range?

[KaliCali]

most likely $995

[Spooled]

most likely $995

Chubby has deflated.

[BOOSTR]

Thats great. Can't wait to see the dyno graphs. I'm sure pricing will be the same as it is for other applications on the Xede, $995.

[brealmp3]

ahh thanks,

i read through the thread once but can't remember will this be self tunalbe or will you have to locate a dealer?

[Ryoga28]

I hope it works out in the end. Will it be plug and play?

[KaliCali]

ahh thanks,

i read through the thread once but can't remember will this be self tunalbe or will you have to locate a dealer?

It is fully user tunable.


I hope it works out in the end. Will it be plug and play?

I would like for it to be plug and play, but I can't find a Harness. If anyone knows where to buy a patch harness for a Ford 104 pin connector that would help. Otherwise this will be a wire in.

[LinuxRacr]

THose harnesses are expensive.

[tekkie]

and hard to find :(

[KaliCali]

yea... I know... =T

[ChopstickHero]

are you doing this project on your own? can't Vishnu find a source for those harnesses?

[TurfBurn]

Yeah.. the PandP clips will run around an extra 300 for both male and female...

Here we go again on the piggy's...

[Spooled]

$300 seems a little steep for a piece of plastic that holds wires together.

[TurfBurn]

1) connectors are never cheap
2) the connector is proprietary and has big royalties associated with it I've been told
3) automotive connectors are FAR from pieces of plastic holding wires... they have to have VERY VERY low PPM rates and have to be vibration resistant which believe it or not is a bit of a difficulty for most electrical connectors.

Fact is if you could find ANY connector that size with pins and termination etc take care of for less than 80 bucks a half I'd be damn impressed.

[tekkie]

I contacted a few companies to make some and they all lost interest as soon as I told them its a ford - mazda connector :(

if you can get them from 80 bucks per side hook me up :) thats real cheap

[low_psi]

Yea, connectors are not cheap. The more I think about the switch to a XEDE, the more a Microtech makes sense.

[lcruz64]

Microtech does have a good set of options...

[ArrestYellowMSP]

Any new news?

[LinuxRacr]

Let's keep this thread on topic everyone. This one is about the Xede...

[ghost]

subs....

[KaliCali]

Merry Xmas everyone... and just in time. I got the car off the dyno tonight and have been driving it around =D

Torque and HP curves are much to my liking. The car made 176whp and a nice 200 lb/ft of torque on a Dyno Dynamics. Mods are Injen intake, Ion front mount, Perrin 3" J-back exhaust and XEDE at 9psi. Multiply the results by 1.14 and you'll roughly have dynojet numbers (200whp and 228tq).

The car suffered from high engine temps. After every pull we had to cool down before continuing with the next. Other than that the car drives much much much better. Low end torque is the greatest improvement and has so far made driving around town much more enjoyable. Car pull beautifully throughout the powerband as well.

I'll post the before and after dynographs as soon as Shiv mails them to me =) The difference will sicken you =P

-Cheers!

[BOOSTR]

So the connector problem has been resovled?
What is making the car run so hot, or at least hotter than normal?
Can't wait to see the graphs. I am digging the torque gain a whole lot!

[flat_black]

My guess is sitting still on the dyno in balmy California, with not enough circulation is what caused the overheating. =) Awesome results, man!

[daedalus]

Wow... i cant belive it actually worked! Have you checked to make sure the nasty stock ECU isnt messing up your tune now that you've been driving it? When we did the emanage, it tok the tune for like 3 iginition cycles, and then started making its own changes...

[pluto316]

Wow, this is pretty cool.

[KaliCali]

Wow... i cant belive it actually worked! Have you checked to make sure the nasty stock ECU isnt messing up your tune now that you've been driving it? When we did the emanage, it tok the tune for like 3 iginition cycles, and then started making its own changes...

Thats what I'm worried about as well... so we'll be checking for that =T

[TurfBurn]

he other problem that you will never be able to get around with Xede is that with the stock maps as a base, they will shift based on conditions and your Xede tune will get pushed out of where it is supposed to be. It'll be a nice tune, but it will fluctuate over time and with different conditions. You'll never be able to nail it down to stay stable. A lot of people think it stays perfect, but they don't run constant logging or AFR's or so forth, if you actually track that you will see all the variations that occur over time. It most becomes a problem when you run a series of hard runs in a row and you'll see variation between each of the runs.

Did you guys get it to be plug and play?

[Turtle of Time]

'06 bump

[mspHtown]

any updates?!

[Spooled]

Another dead project...

[ArrestYellowMSP]

Updates?

[KaliCali]

=T I've still yet to get Shiv to send me the dyno graph results =P But I've been driving with the XEDE in for the past month. I know everyone is more anxious to see the dyno graph comparisons, so I've been bugging the hell out of Shiv everyday. If anyone is really interested, and live close to the Bay Area, you can give them a call to show your interest. Otherwise.. just wait ~_^

[KaliCali]

he other problem that you will never be able to get around with Xede is that with the stock maps as a base, they will shift based on conditions and your Xede tune will get pushed out of where it is supposed to be. It'll be a nice tune, but it will fluctuate over time and with different conditions. You'll never be able to nail it down to stay stable. A lot of people think it stays perfect, but they don't run constant logging or AFR's or so forth, if you actually track that you will see all the variations that occur over time. It most becomes a problem when you run a series of hard runs in a row and you'll see variation between each of the runs.

Did you guys get it to be plug and play?

This has always been an issue with any tuning device granted it be a piggy-back or full standalone. Although when tuning witht he XEDE, the idea is to stay within the "happy zone" of the ECU so that the tune does not get "pushed out". One advantage to tuning witht he XEDE is that you can work in conjunction with the the stock map and keep all of the factory failsafes (ie knock threshold) that car manufacturers spend millions of $$$ on designing. (hint: standalones)

Although we have develped what we call the SMART system for the XEDE which can adapt to slight environmental variables (ie temp, altitude and octane). Thats not to say that a car tuned at sea level will be able to perform just as well at 2000 feet, but it does resolve the issues of having to be re-tuned every year (hint: standalones)

As for the variations between hard runs on the dyno, what we've observed were high water temps that affected performance drastically. This was already very apparent when running the car hard at track days for more than 15mins.

Couldn't source an affordable connector... so this will have to stay a wire-in.

[TurfBurn]

This has always been an issue with any tuning device granted it be a piggy-back or full standalone. Although when tuning witht he XEDE, the idea is to stay within the "happy zone" of the ECU so that the tune does not get "pushed out". One advantage to tuning witht he XEDE is that you can work in conjunction with the the stock map and keep all of the factory failsafes (ie knock threshold) that car manufacturers spend millions of $$$ on designing. (hint: standalones)
- hint they spend the money more on emissions.. A system like the JandS safeguard runs circles around the stock knock systems. And if you are staying within the happy zones of the stock ECU you aren't going near the full potential of the tune of the car.



Although we have develped what we call the SMART system for the XEDE which can adapt to slight environmental variables (ie temp, altitude and octane). Thats not to say that a car tuned at sea level will be able to perform just as well at 2000 feet, but it does resolve the issues of having to be re-tuned every year (hint: standalones)

Ha!! That is the most BS thing I've ever heard. Unlike piggy systems like the Xede that lose their maps as the stock system re-calibrates once a standalone is tuned things are locked in for eternity.



As for the variations between hard runs on the dyno, what we've observed were high water temps that affected performance drastically. This was already very apparent when running the car hard at track days for more than 15mins.

Couldn't source an affordable connector... so this will have to stay a wire-in.
Exactly... you can't do an accurate enough correction for the higher temps... one of the guys that runs the Microtech found that his 1/4 runs are now more consistent AND faster running the system compared to the stock ECU doing things.. and he is an NA car...

You guys will have emissions and generally a good tune, so it is a reasonably good system though for a lot of people. So it's good that it will be available.

[KaliCali]

Ha!! That is the most BS thing I've ever heard. Unlike piggy systems like the Xede that lose their maps as the stock system re-calibrates once a standalone is tuned things are locked in for eternity.

How is this BS? We've been running this system on the EVOs flawlessly.



Exactly... you can't do an accurate enough correction for the higher temps... one of the guys that runs the Microtech found that his 1/4 runs are now more consistent AND faster running the system compared to the stock ECU doing things.. and he is an NA car...

Well... the fact that he has an NA car dosent help in comparisons to the turbo charged cars. I'm pretty sure the main reason for high water temps is due to the addition the turbo and small radiator.



You guys will have emissions and generally a good tune, so it is a reasonably good system though for a lot of people. So it's good that it will be available.

=) There is no solid comparison that would suggest that a standalone can bring out a cars full potential over the XEDE, especially at this point in tuning. We've had countless discussions on the EVO boards with different tuners that prefer using standalones, and it just becomes a big war.

This thread is dedicated to XEDE information, so if you'd like to leave a link to a Microtech thread, I'd be glad to read about it there =D

[505zoom]

...We've had countless discussions on the EVO boards with different tuners that prefer using standalones, and it just becomes a big war...

Well, you're just in time for the same thing here thanks to one of the other piggyback vendors ruffling everyones feathers all the time. You'll have to forgive Steve, I think he is still a little on edge thanks to the "other" guy.

Everyone knows that there are people who prefer a standalone and then there are others that like the piggyback. Debate the products and the advantages, but there is no need to be anything but civil about it.

[KaliCali]

oHh... lol... I see =P
No harm no foul =)

[TurfBurn]

How is this BS? We've been running this system on the EVOs flawlessly.

My point was that having to re-tune a standalone every year was BS. I haven't researched how you guys have done on the Evo's to know really what has gone wrong or so forth... but that is also a considerably different ECU. Mazda's are known to be a lot rougher to deal with.. hell E-manage works without an issue on an Evo or Lancer yet is a pain in the ass on a Mazda.



Well... the fact that he has an NA car dosent help in comparisons to the turbo charged cars. I'm pretty sure the main reason for high water temps is due to the addition the turbo and small radiator.

Well if it's hot and your radiator and fan combination is not to the task you'll get high water temps.. my point was with the Microtech he was able to correct it and make the car more consistent and powerful at the higher temps... and you had said that the Xede hit a rough patch there.



=) There is no solid comparison that would suggest that a standalone can bring out a cars full potential over the XEDE, especially at this point in tuning. We've had countless discussions on the EVO boards with different tuners that prefer using standalones, and it just becomes a big war.

This thread is dedicated to XEDE information, so if you'd like to leave a link to a Microtech thread, I'd be glad to read about it there =D

Right.. it always becomes a big war... and it's a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation. I take issue with someone saying it is better or so forth than a standalone.. I don't think the standalone is necessarily different.. I believe that they both do the job, but do it in different ways with different drawbacks...

I realize this is an Xede thread.. and I didn't comment on standalones until you stated misinfomation regarding them... I corrected you and it's continued from there.

[TurfBurn]

Well, you're just in time for the same thing here thanks to one of the other piggyback vendors ruffling everyones feathers all the time. You'll have to forgive Steve, I think he is still a little on edge thanks to the "other" guy.

Everyone knows that there are people who prefer a standalone and then there are others that like the piggyback. Debate the products and the advantages, but there is no need to be anything but civil about it.

Yep.. I agree.. and I am probably a little extra "touchy" these days because of what you said..

I agree that it will work well and there are pros and cons to both... my issue becomes when people don't admit to the cons that they have with a system. NO system out there.. absolutely NONE is without flaw... so you better be ready to admit it so customers can choose which flaws they are fine with!

[Ljspeed]

Any more updates KaliCali?

[KaliCali]

Nope =T
Sorry to get everyones hopes up...
If you're local and you really want one.. you can give us a visit to have one fitted on your car. Otherwise we wont be officially selling it.
The Xede that was installed on my car has been working flawlessly.

[pluto316]

Nope =T
Sorry to get everyones hopes up...
If you're local and you really want one.. you can give us a visit to have one fitted on your car. Otherwise we wont be officially selling it.
The Xede that was installed on my car has been working flawlessly.


That's still pretty cool. (thumb)

[SpeedBeaver]

Subscribing...

[Kansei]

*also subscribing*

[Spooled]

unsubscribing

[pluto316]

Yeah, I think this is a done topic. Vishnu makes an ECU piggyback for the FS-DE but you'll never see it advertised.