Replacing the 1.6 MAF/intake with the 2.0 MAF/intake

[TStar]

hey everyboy..

i asked myself if it was possible to replace the MAF and intake box+adapter of the 1.6l models with the installation of the 2.0l models...

[TampaSport20]

and what did you find out..........

[TStar]

only got one simple answer from TheMan : "No"
:(
can't tell any real details about it :\\\

[TampaSport20]

only got one simple answer from TheMan : "No"
:(
can't tell any real details about it :\\\

More than likely they each provide a different voltage signal to the ECU...apparently the 1.6L MAF must be a better design, as that is what they use on ALL the new Mazda 3's. New Subaru's also use the same MAF.

Only thing I don't like is the 1.6L MAF apears to be supersensitive to turbulence, that's why they don't like aftermarket CAI's too much.The sensors position in the tube is VERY important too....

I think when I go turbo I will employ a MAP sensor and eliminate the MAF

[TStar]

yep, i was a little surprised when i browsed the epc for mazda3 parts and saw the same MAF ^^
ahm, what i can say is: the maf of the small engine models (here in eurodisney) become defective OFTEN, although almost noone installs an aftermarket CAI or anything like that... so i'd say that this particular MAF is just badly constructed/built.low quality.

edwin gave me some part number : L321-13-215 .. it's supposed to be a better MAF which also works for the 1.6 zm engine.. might be worth a try.

[zerocover]

It shouldnt be too much of a problem.
If it is a diffrent voltage. A resistor or opamp would do the trick. JUst run them both in seires then tune untill there the same. IT would take some enginuaty but if need it done you could help a bunch of people out at the same time.

Around here there was actually a recall on the 1.6l maf's. I think they changed the O ring. Still really sensitive.

[TampaSport20]

It shouldnt be too much of a problem.
If it is a diffrent voltage. A resistor or opamp would do the trick. JUst run them both in seires then tune untill there the same. IT would take some enginuaty but if need it done you could help a bunch of people out at the same time.

Around here there was actually a recall on the 1.6l maf's. I think they changed the O ring. Still really sensitive.

why dont you be a guinea pig ??? From what I have seen the MAF mount on the 2.0L MAF is bigger, so it would eliminate a choke on the system..More air=more power..plus less likely to fail

While youre at it you can figure out how to wire up an IAT from a 2.0L also...since our IAT is part of the MAF.....

[TampaSport20]

edwin gave me some part number : L321-13-215 .. it's supposed to be a better MAF which also works for the 1.6 zm engine.. might be worth a try.

I wonder what car it is ACTUALLY for ??? Mazda 3 ??? 1.5L ZL-VE Familia ???

[TStar]

good question, couldn't find it in my epc :\

[mazpro]

yes, apparently, our MAFs are good, when i saw the MS6 engine, same MAF.....

[NegatiZE]

Bleh, I see it the other way around. Intakes w/ 1.6's are shitty and hesitate due to the MAF design. I have not heard of any hesitation/bogging with the 2.0's MAF's.

[TampaSport20]

Bleh, I see it the other way around. Intakes w/ 1.6's are shitty and hesitate due to the MAF design. I have not heard of any hesitation/bogging with the 2.0's MAF's.

Yeah I had a previous post about it....I would rather have the 2.0 maf if I could wire it in proper....it is less sensitive to turbulence....

I think I need to consult the FSM to see what voltage ranges the ECU is looking for, then talk to an electronics GURU to see how to modify the MAF signal to let the 1.6 ECU accept it...I'm sure it can be done if you include the 2.0L IAT sensor too

[TampaSport20]

OK electronics GURU's help me out....here is the history.....

the 2.0L has a seperate IAT/MAF system

the 1.6L has a combined IAT/MAF system

However the MAF on both is still based on 3 wires and the IAT is still 2 wires

On the 2.0L the ECU is looking for voltages between 0.86V and 4.90V from the MAF

On the 1.6L the ECU is looking for voltages between 0.21V and 4.90V from the MAF

On the 2.0L the ECU is looking for voltages between 0.16V and 4.84V from the IAT

On the 1.6L the ECU is looking for voltages between 0.15V and 4.84V from the IAT

what would need to be done to modify the signal coming off the 2.0L MAF and IAT to simply wire it to the 1.6L ????

[TampaSport20]

bump

[zerocover]

That seems very close, perhaps even close enough where the ecu wont catch on. You could just wire strait accross, to what the wires should be. A .5 volt diffrence in our cars is pretty negligible. THe ecu should be able to get it to work after you reset the ecu, assumming both have the same resistance.

I have a feeling that its not the maf thats too sensitive but rather the ecu. A change in the 2.0 maf flow is not a big deal becuase the ecu looks at what the O2 sensor is doing and saies no prob. The 1.6 L also checks agaist the o2 sensor but I think it is much more accurate so when the ecu checks the flow accross the maf and calculats what the O2 should be it expects it to be dead on, instead of a broad range like what the 2.0 would look for.

[TampaSport20]

That seems very close, perhaps even close enough where the ecu wont catch on. You could just wire strait accross, to what the wires should be. A .5 volt diffrence in our cars is pretty negligible. THe ecu should be able to get it to work after you reset the ecu, assumming both have the same resistance.

I have a feeling that its not the maf thats too sensitive but rather the ecu. A change in the 2.0 maf flow is not a big deal becuase the ecu looks at what the O2 sensor is doing and saies no prob. The 1.6 L also checks agaist the o2 sensor but I think it is much more accurate so when the ecu checks the flow accross the maf and calculats what the O2 should be it expects it to be dead on, instead of a broad range like what the 2.0 would look for.

umm all that the ecu looks for from the MAF is voltages though and both MAF's work the same, they just produce slightly different voltages,according to the FSM....if we could alter the ranges on the 2.0L MAf and IAT it should work just fine

[zerocover]

Ok theres a 13.8% diffrence in total range so you have to take the 2.0 maf and opamp the out put to increase the gain 13.8% you should be able to find what resistor you need to put on the opamp to get that result. Then you need to subtract from the origonal signal some .67 volts. just add a stabilized negitive voltage using a voltage regulator from radio shack. That would make a 2.0 maf look like a 1.6l maf based soley on what the output can be.

This probubly wont work though, and would just throw a cel. You have to carfully analyze the flow caracteristics of the maf, ie what amount of air yields what voltage. I beleve both are exponential so its gonna be fun to find a way to convert between the two.

This goes back to my origional sugestion of running them both inline so that both get the same flow then measuring voltages. After at least 3 measurements a solution can be found to map the zm01 maf to the 2.0 maf.

THe designers take the diffrent maf caracteristics into account when tuning the car. So if you were to do a standalone there would be no problems otherwise a simple a/f controler will take care of the diffrences. When the car goes into closed loop the maf voltage doesnt matter anyway, and an afc only works in open loop.

I beleve there might be a chance that just swapping the mafs will work becuase the ecu auto learns the maf caracteristics. How much it learns IDk but we can hope its enough.

[TampaSport20]

Ok theres a 13.8% diffrence in total range so you have to take the 2.0 maf and opamp the out put to increase the gain 13.8% you should be able to find what resistor you need to put on the opamp to get that result. Then you need to subtract from the origonal signal some .67 volts. just add a stabilized negitive voltage using a voltage regulator from radio shack. That would make a 2.0 maf look like a 1.6l maf based soley on what the output can be.

This probubly wont work though, and would just throw a cel. You have to carfully analyze the flow caracteristics of the maf, ie what amount of air yields what voltage. I beleve both are exponential so its gonna be fun to find a way to convert between the two.

This goes back to my origional sugestion of running them both inline so that both get the same flow then measuring voltages. After at least 3 measurements a solution can be found to map the zm01 maf to the 2.0 maf.

THe designers take the diffrent maf caracteristics into account when tuning the car. So if you were to do a standalone there would be no problems otherwise a simple a/f controler will take care of the diffrences. When the car goes into closed loop the maf voltage doesnt matter anyway, and an afc only works in open loop.

I beleve there might be a chance that just swapping the mafs will work becuase the ecu auto learns the maf caracteristics. How much it learns IDk but we can hope its enough.


take a look at my thread on the CPE maf modifier/tuner for the 6i..they use the same MAF as us....think THAT might work ???