MS3 vs MS6: What Do You Think? *Re Opened*

[Cloke]

I wasn't for sure where to post this so I'll just do it here.

When the release of these most anticipated vehicles happens, I am going to be torn. I see the hatch style and I'm starting to like it a lot, but what I've seen about the MS6 is also mind boggling. I know that with the MS6 they kept the 4 cyl for better performance/handling instead of doing the v6 turbo. I would think though that the MS3 would be lighter, so it could go faster especially with AWD. If you guys could. Let me know what you think about these 2 up coming vehicles and which you all think would out perform the other.

The dealership knows that I'm looking at getting the MS6 and its cost show about $29,000 or so. I think I gave the sales guy a run for his money b/c he was asking me questions about it.

Comments?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/GLantern/MS3/MAZDASPEED3_front34_2.jpg
OR
http://www.triplezoom.com/news/uploads/ms6_3.jpg

[Killer]

6

[Dexter]

neither?

[Antoine]

Both are going to have tons of potential...it will be interesting to see how the performance stats compare...it might come down to what you're looking for...design wise...function wise...price wise...size wise...etc

Good thread topic ;)

[Dexter]

Well we dont even have specs for a MS3, so what is there to compare right now?

[seanmcsean]

I drive a 6 and love it.. I could only imagine what a faster awd 6 would be like (yippy)

[Antoine]

Well we dont even have specs for a MS3, so what is there to compare right now?

I'd estimate...FWD (AWD might be an upmarket move for the MS6 although it would rock in the MS3) + 220-240hp...hoodscoop (TMIC?)...awesome handling with great power potential (2.3 factory turbo...can't go wrong!) :D

[J dragon]

Well I haven't Driven a 3 yet, but I do love my 6.....form what I remember with my protge..It did handle better than the heavier 6.

Also everyone is praising the 3, even car, and consumer Mag's so....it boils down to what you prefer...

the 6 looks waaaaay better than that ugly 3 hatch...sorry I can't vote on this one It's too hard.

[crossbow]

The MPS 3. It'll be about 500-600 lbs lighter. It'll utterly obliterate the MPS 6...not even a contest of comparison between the two.

Of course it'll be FWD with an LSD, and will be competiting against the SRT-4, Redline, and Cobalt SS.

The MPS 6 isn't a racer, its a "tourer" that has some performance. The MPS 3 is designed to be a pocket rocket.

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

two different classes....anyone anyone?

[Mazda3]

A MS3 will only appeal to me if its AWD. If its FWD than I'm not interested.

[wongpres]

And just to be clear, the first pic (silver-gray-blue hatch) at the top of this thread is NOT the Mazdaspeed3. It's the Mazda MX-Sportif concept car, which was the preview concept to the Mazda3 (just like the MX-Crossport is the preview concept car to the CX-7).

In fact, the Mazda nomenclature is that all 'MX-' concept cars are previews to future production vehicles. Whereas something like the Mazda Sassou that's currently in Frankfurt is a pure concept vehicle.

[Cloke]

Well, it's the only pics of something close to what they are thinking about. Dexter is right too, the specs for the MS3 have not been released. Mazda is planning to do 1 at a time from what I've seen. You don't throw out 2 MazdaSpeeds out at the same time. Like the MSP and the MX5, these vehicles didn't even come close to coming out at the same time. I'm shocked that Mazda decided to release the MSP when it did. If I were them the MX5 would of been a good idea, but with Honda's Civic taking everything from handling and safety, Mazda had to put something out that would turnheads... a turbo'd sedan, stock. I mean you have Mercedis and Lamborghini etc but who's going to be a student or a simple person that doesn't have Donald Trump as an uncle or dad?

If the MS3 stats come out, I'll post something comparing the 2 vehicles. Right now all we have is the MS6. Since this a M6 thread, I'll post them for the MS6.

Rumor control has it that Mazda's dream is the re-release the RX7 but this time with style. It's going to have the 1st gen body style and the twin turbos for that sexy rotory engine it has. IDK if they are going to do it with the RX8 but its a goal and a plan.

Stop me if I'm wrong.

[Cloke]

MS6 Specs that are important

Engine type 2.3L DOHC 16-valve Inline-4 with turbo
Horsepower, SAE net 274 @ 5500 rpm
Torque, SAE net 280 @ 3000 rpm
Redline 6700 rpm
Displacement (cubic inches) 137.9
Bore x stroke (inches) 3.44 x 3.70
Compression ratio 9.5:1
Fuel system Direct injection
Recommended fuel 93 octane*
Minimum fuel requirement Premium*
Valvetrain 4 valves per cylinder, mechanical lifters
Engine block Aluminum alloy
Cylinder heads Aluminum alloy
Emission control 3-way catalytic converter
Ignition system Full transistor breakerless electronic
Alternator 12V-110AH
Battery 55D23L
Starter 12V-1.4kw
__________
Type All-Wheel Drive (AWD)
Transmissions 6-speed manual
Clutch type Single dry plate with diaphragm spring
Transmission ratios (:1) 1st 3.538
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.535
4th 1.171
5th 1.085
6th 0.853
Reverse 3.831
Final Drive 1st - 4th 3.611
5th, 6th, Rev. 3.095
* This vehicle is designed to use 93 octane (AKI) or higher gasoline for best performance. If 93 octane (AKI) is not available, 91 or 92 octane (AKI) gasoline can be used. In case 91 or 92 octane (AKI) is not available, gasoline as low as 87 octane (AKI) can be used temporarily for emergency purposes. Use of gasoline lower than 93 octane (AKI) can decrease performance during its use.

Power assist Engine-rpm sensitive; variable power-assist
Overall steering ratio 16.1:1
Steering wheel turns-to-Lock 2.6
Turning circle, curb-to-curb (feet) 36.8
Braking system Power assist; 4-wheel, 4-sensor, 3-channel Anti-Lock
Brake System with Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
Brake discs Front Ventilated discs (12.6 x 1.0 inches)
Rear Solid discs (12.4 x 0.4 inches)
Parking brake Mechanical, hand-operated on rear wheels
Tires P215/45R18 93Y summer radials
Tire inflation pressure (front/rear) 37.7 psi
Wheels 7.0JJ x 18
Temporary spare tire T145/70D17
Temporary spare wheel 17 x 4T
___________
EPA Mileage (City/Highway) 20/26
______
Crankcase (U.S. quarts) 6.8
Engine coolant (U.S. quarts) 8.5
Fuel tank capacity (gallons) 15.9
EPA Passenger Volume (cubic feet) 96.1
EPA Cargo Volume 33.7
(cubic feet) Seats folded 60.5
EPA Total Volume (cubic feet) 131.7
EPA Vehicle Size Category Compact car

Wheelbase 105.3
Track: (front & rear) 60.6
Length 186.8
Width 70.1
Height 56.3
Minimum ground clearance, laden 4.86
Weight distribution, % front:rear 60:40

[crossbow]

You forgot to post the 3590 lb curb weight (base) or 3650 (Loaded GT).

[Cloke]

bump

[GrandBelialKey]

:o (sad2) I for 1, am going to wait until I drive a Ms6 to say whether it's the best mazda I've ever driven.... I'd say the MS3 might not be AWD, but the 6's are cool, bo doubt about that..... the lines make it great. (piss)

[Cloke]

bump

[crossbow]

Why are you bumping this? You created a thread wondering if a 3000 lb car with 220-240 hp is going to be better then a 3650 lb car with 274....

[Cloke]

Since the new release of Euro version of the MS3 and the already release MS6, I wanted to renew this thread and see what people still prefer. What does the Mazda Nation want to drive more? MS6 or MS3?

[seanw]

Since the new release of Euro version of the MS3 and the already release MS6, I wanted to renew this thread and see what people still prefer. What does the Mazda Nation want to drive more? MS6 or MS3?
That's going to depend on the how the MS3 handles. Power/weight-wise and looks-wise I really love it. If I'd known it was going to come out as soon as it seems it will (next Fall?), I would've waited before jumping on the MS6 like I did. Don't get me wrong, I love the MS6, too, every time I step on the gas or go around a sharp corner, but I've always had a soft spot for 3 hatch. The MS3 takes away the main reasons I didn't buy a regular 3 hatch. With a power/weight ratio better than the MS6 and hopefully much better handling than the regular 3 hatch, I think I can put up with losing a cubic foot of space and power to the rear wheels.

[jaimem26]

One of my friends has a Mazda3 and the other has a Mazda6. I have to say that the Mazda6 is by far the better choice. So i dont see why the MS3 would be better than the MS6. Although my opinoin might be a little bit bias becuase i am a PROUD owner of a MS6 Grand Touring. I absolutley love to drive it and think it is an amazing vehicle.

[Cloke]

yeah. if the ms3 har awd, then it would be to much like the ms6, but i think im glad i waited

[UtesFanRy]

admittedly I am a little biased, owning a MS6 and all....

But, I can't imagine with the power the MS3 is supposed to have that it wouldn't be a poster child for AWD which the MS6 has!

I can tell you from experience that the MS6 is one balanced, powerful, and overall very impressive vehicle!

The MS3 has it's work cut out for it to de-throne the MS6!

Ry

[Newf]

ms6 is better looking, more room, more better interior, AWD, more features



hands down, ms6

[UniqueModz]

bump

[Antoine]

I think some of you are being a bit hasty...We'll see how things really are when the MS3 hits the showrooms...I love the MS6 but would seriously consider the MS3 (even with FWD) because it's less expensive, weighs less and should match the MS6's hp level easily...Not to mention the handling should be stellar!

[Cloke]

I agree, and this is one hatch worth driving. I'll post the MS3 stats and stuff once the american's do it... ha ha or if someone has already seen the american ms3 specs then be my guest.

With the torque ratio with the ms3 it comps for the awd, mostly. If you do it right then it will be running like an ms6. I mean my protege with CAI can take a MSP stock till his 2nd, then his about a foot or more ahead, but i still keep up off the line. Now at a 20 mph roll, their spool time is already going, not much I can do.

[Breeegz]

3.... merely because of my assumption of price (no pricing as of yet)

I always want to get my cars loaded, for example, I'd rather get a fully loaded WRX than a base STI....

A fully loaded MS6 = 33,000
A fully loaded MS3 = most likely less...
(and I like the 3hatch)

[PerfectXtreme]

Ms6

[JOS3]

turbo hatch > *

[PerfectXtreme]

I had a thread earlier bout something "similar"

It depends on what you want. You talk about "lighter" car so it will go faster? If you want to drag race and are going to pull the back seats.. battery mount.. and door pannels off to lighten the car up... The MS6 is a higher class "luxury" car. Has more interior features... much larger car... Not designed to drag race and beat boosted civics that weigh half as much...

If you want a faster... light car... thats much smaller inside and out... go with the 3... If you want to spend more.. but have much more room and luxury feal. MS6 is best car on the market...

I think the 3 is more in line with Evo's.. and STI's... while the 6 is around the A4's and IS300's and BMW3's....

[nvmsp]

I beg to differ, i think the ms6 will still hand a ms3 it's ass when they come out.

[illusis]

honestly form what ive been seeing with hiboost i really dont see that much of a need for a mazdaspeed 3 if it doesnt have awd. i really wanted a car with all wheel drive and would be pissed if the speed3 did come with awd b/c that was a huge unhappiness when i couldnt afford the awd cars that i wanted. but if it doesnt have awd i would just upgrade my engine and what not and get a turbo kit from hiboost. the numbers they are comming out with are amazing and showing what my little 3 is capable of doing.

[crossbow]

The Mazdaspeed 3 only has 7 less bhp then a Mazdaspeed 6. 267 bhp and 280 ft/lbs of torque are the US spec power ratings for the MS3.

Since the mazdaspeed 3 is going to come in about 400-500 lbs lighter then a MS6, there really isn't any doubt that the MS3 will cleanly outperform an MS6 in both a straight line, and the twisty's. I don't think there is really any debate to that fact. AWD won't make up for a 500 lb weight deficit no matter how many threads you start. Any debating to this fact will most likely be by individuals who have never been on a road or autox course.

Whether you get one or the other is going to come down to what you want in a car. A 3 is quite a bit smaller then a 6. Have you sat in both? It doesn't matter how the car's perform if you don't feel right in a 3, or a 6 doesn't fit you.

These comments are of course stock vs stock. When you go to modded, the MS3 will most likely eventually win, as the expected demand is so much higher then the MS6, that more then one shop have already preordered their own vehicles to build modifications for them...including one very well known and respected 6 tuner.

The Mazdaspeed 3 is going to be one of the hottest car's mazda has ever produced.

[GrandBelialKey]

ms3 by flying armbar

[Cloke]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/GLantern/MS3/MAZDASPEED3_fr_action.jpg
pretty picture of both MS6 and MS3
So, still trying to figure out what you want? The MS6 is already out and is doing well but what do you all thing is going to happen when the MS3 releases, there are so many M3's running around now, hmmm, que pasa

[Cloke]

Fresh from Mazda Canada (http://www.mazda.ca/)
The info on what they say and have about the MS3. I had to steal 1 thing, all is available on their site.

(The MAZDASPEED3 Technical Specifications will have to be viewed at thier web site, sorry)

MAZDASPEED3 – A double dose of Zoom-Zoom

MAZDASPEED3 is outfitted with Mazda’s 2.3-litre DISI (Direct Injection Spark Ignition) Turbo engine in a front engine, front-wheel drive (FWD) layout that is targeted to exceed 250 HP. This not only makes MAZDASPEED3 one of the most powerful and responsive compact sports models with FWD, it combines this with a stiffer body shell and a suspension with a significant improvement in roll stiffness versus the current Mazda3 for superior Zoom-Zoom handling attributes.

Mazda’s direct injection technology not only makes the new MAZDASPEED3 powerful, it also has fuel consumption levels that are particularly good for a car with this kind of performance.

MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo engine

In addition to delivering a high performance Zoom-Zoom driving experience, the MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo engine also exhibits good environmental compatibility with low fuel consumption. This powerplant is a direct injection turbocharged unit developed by Mazda to achieve three aspects of performance that are difficult to realize with conventional manifold injection engines:

~good fuel economy and low exhaust gas emissions,
~powerful acceleration thanks to the turbocharger, and
~a full and flat torque curve throughout the rev range for exceptional engine response.

Mazda’s MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo injects fuel into the cylinders at pressures as high as 1,600 psi, which cools the combustion chambers (internal cooling effect) through latent heat of vaporization, thereby improving the charging efficiency. This can increase torque by up to 10 percent at certain rpm ranges compared to a conventional manifold injection type turbo engine, making powerful, easy to control torque available across a wide range of engine speeds. This high power and easy to use flat torque curve is attained by the use of a fixed geometry turbocharger.

The internal cooling effect within the combustion chamber increases the cylinder charge volume under initial acceleration and hence the exhaust-gas flow, causing a linear increase in rotation speed of the turbocharger's compressor wheel. As a result, the turbocharger provides boost effect soon after the accelerator is pressed assuring excellent response at low to mid-engine speeds.

High-pressure direct injection of fuel into the cylinder also results in an optimized air fuel mixture forming in the vicinity of the spark plug, reducing the risk of misfire. This allows earlier ignition, making it easy to raise the temperature of the exhaust gas. Moreover, use of a lightweight, fixed geometry turbocharger dramatically reduces the thermal capacity of the exhaust system, minimizing the loss in temperature of exhaust gas. As a result, the catalytic converter reaches its activation temperature faster after the engine is started.

Because the internal cooling effect within the combustion chamber reduces knocking tendencies and boosts fuel economy without sacrificing low end torque, the MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo engine has a relatively high compression ratio for a turbo engine of 9.5:1 which contributes to improved fuel economy.

For MAZDASPEED3, the development team fine tuned both the engine and exhaust system to produce a sporty sound that enhances driving pleasure. Tuning of the exhaust system focused on sounds in the low frequency range, while tuning of engine sound focused on the mid frequency range produced at high engine speeds to deliver an enjoyably sporty sound. A powerful exhaust note is hit the moment the engine is started, and a pleasurable sound sustained in sync with accelerator pedal input as the car gains speed.

High-level torque management

A wide range of optimizations give this high power, high torque front-wheel drive vehicle greater ease of use with more comfortable driveability and handling. Intake volume and boost pressure control sudden torque peaks, assuring smooth, linear torque delivery. Additionally, torque characteristics from first through fourth gears are optimized to deliver appropriate drive power from take off.

Torque control is also linked to the steering angle, and the stiffness of the left and right drive shafts is balanced with the angles optimized to control torque steer. A newly-developed limited slip differential is also adopted to provide ample torque to the inner wheel during hard cornering for smooth, predictable driving in the curve.

Six-speed manual transmission

The new MAZDASPEED3 employs the six-speed manual transmission introduced with the MAZDASPEED6 that provides the driver with the pleasure of having full control over the vehicle’s high power, while contributing to a quiet ride and better fuel economy.

A compact three shaft design made it possible to keep the overall length the same as for the five-speed manual transmission used in the base model. In addition, MAZDASPEED3’s six-speed transmission uses wide gear ratios to fully exploit the wide torque band of the direct injection turbocharged engine. The transmission’s high-ratio sixth gear contributes to a quieter ride and improves fuel economy during high-speed cruising. Triple cone synchronizers for first through third gears and a double cone synchronizer for fourth gear assure ample sync capacity to enable a short, clean action shift stroke and comfortable shift feel.

High body rigidity and specially tuned chassis

The new MAZDASPEED3 features a body with greater rigidity than the original Mazda3 model. The MAZDASPEED version is based on the Mazda3 Sport, with local reinforcements added to realize a body sufficiently stiff and robust to stand up to the extra demands of sporty driving. Suspension and brakes have also been specially tuned for the MAZDASPEED. These improvements assure a body and chassis capable of easily handling the extremely high power delivered by the MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo engine.

Body rigidity has been increased by several features, including a reinforced front cowl member that is joined directly to a plate in the top section of the front damper mount, assuring the same rigidity as a car fitted with strut tower bars. This prevents deformation of the front suspension towers and maintains correct suspension geometry. In the lower body, a large closed section member is employed to reinforce the floor tunnel which improves the torsional rigidity of whole body. At the rear, the gusset introduced at the bottom end of the rear suspension towers restrains the tendency of the towers to displace inwards which maintains the correct suspension geometry in the rear.

Specially tuned suspension gives 60 percent improvement in roll stiffness

Special suspension tuning was conducted to support the high power output of MAZDASPEED3’s engine. Both the MacPherson strut front suspension and multi-link rear suspension have higher coil spring rates and larger diameter stabilizer bars than the Mazda3. Dampers also have a higher damping force on the MAZDASPEED3. Damping force on both jounce and rebound is approximately 6 times better at low piston speed, and about 1.3 times better at moderate piston speed. Combined with the reinforced coil springs and stabilizer bars, this produces significantly more roll stiffness than the Mazda3.

Focus on safety – upgraded brake system to match the high power

The starting point for MAZDASPEED3 safety package was to preserve the accurate, predictable handling of the original Mazda3. Large diameter 4-wheel disc brakes, ventilated 320 mm discs at front and solid 280 mm discs at rear, 8+9 inch tandem brake booster and a large 1 inch diameter master cylinder yield powerful and stable braking.

Standard equipment includes 4-wheel ABS, emergency brake assist, and dynamic stability control (DSC), all of which provide active safety for the MAZDASPEED3 in a range of driving scenarios. In addition, a rain-sensing wiper system and auto light system are also standard to give the driver a clear view of the road and help prevent accidents.

For protection during collision from any direction, MAZDASPEED3 employs the unique Mazda Advanced Impact energy Distribution and Absorption System (MAIDAS) to deliver a robust and safe body structure. Inside the cabin, front dual airbags are fitted as standard, along with side and curtain airbags. A collapsible brake pedal and revised steering column structure reduce the risk of injury to the driver's lower legs, while a seat belt reminder system, which confirms whether seatbelts are buckled or not, is also included to support the safety of the front and rear occupants.

[Da 6]

If I were autoxing as much as the others ,the 3 is hands down. For everything else the 6. The 6 has more space to stretch out and give off that luxurious sedan look and feel. If the speed 3 was a sedan i'd have a slightly harder time picking one over the other.

[stussy2870]

Im a Proud MS6 owner and i think it fits my 30-something demographic perfectly. The MS3 in my opinon will probably sell like hotcakes for a few reasons
1) Focus is on a younger age Demo
2) MazdaSpeed option(s)
3) Incredible power to weight ratio
and most importantly IMO
4) Low Price

in any case- its a good looking car

I do wonder though if the MS6 is AWD and the MS3 isnt- how would that car out handle the MS6? again- in my opinion, the car (MS6) has the ability to enter and exit corners at a quicker rate just because of the AWD...but who knows ...im probably wrong...

[dogma]

MS6. IF the MS3 is faster so what? IMO the 6 is the better car, although I just traded my SVTF in for A MS6 I considered waiting for the MS3 them after I drove the 6 I was hooked. Like the SVTF the 3 is an entry level car and smaller which is neither here nor there depending on you needs. I test drove a lot of cars before deciding on the MS6. Almost bought an EVO,STI,Leagacy Spec B, G35 ,Altima SER and the 350Z. The MS6 got my attention and it was love at first sight( and drive). This should not be about fighting about the MS6 & MS3 ,but why the Mazdaspeed series is better than the rest of the competition. MS6 better than LGT spec B,Altima SER,G35
MS3 better than the SVTF,CivicSI and that little ugly Dodge thing the name escapes me. I had tons of cars over the years and the best I can describe the feeling of driving my MS6 is its just as fun as the Audi S4 I had ! Now thats a compliment !!

[orlandomsp]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/GLantern/MS3/MAZDASPEED3_fr_action.jpg
pretty picture of both MS6 and MS3
So, still trying to figure out what you want? The MS6 is already out and is doing well but what do you all thing is going to happen when the MS3 releases, there are so many M3's running around now, hmmm, que pasa


Where can i get a higher res version of this picture?

[Breeegz]

honestly form what ive been seeing with hiboost i really dont see that much of a need for a mazdaspeed 3 if it doesnt have awd. i really wanted a car with all wheel drive and would be pissed if the speed3 did come with awd b/c that was a huge unhappiness when i couldnt afford the awd cars that i wanted. but if it doesnt have awd i would just upgrade my engine and what not and get a turbo kit from hiboost. the numbers they are comming out with are amazing and showing what my little 3 is capable of doing.

Don't forget the 6-speed transmission and LSD...

[seanw]

Don't forget the 6-speed transmission and LSD...

And tougher clutch/transmission. And for those interested in something other than quarter mile times, (ie., the twisties): stiffer body, tighter suspension, and better brakes.

[Antoine]

Where can i get a higher res version of this picture?

PM altspace (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/member.php?u=12063) ...He posted high-rez pics in one of the MS3 threads!

[Raynman]

As promising as the MS3 is, I'm pretty sure I'm at that stage in my life where I prefer a grand tourer over a hot hatch. Hence, I would go for the MS6.

[AWD6]

i have a ms6 and i love it....that 3 looks too girlie i think, but everyone likes what they like.

[Chiguy_2002]

I like them both, but considering I'm getting a bit older and would like more room, the MS6 would be what I would get. I have also considered the Legacy GT (not Spec B.) or the Altima SE-R. I have driven all three, just need to do that one more time before deciding...

[tyrellebo]

IMO the AWD makes or brakes it. If the MS3 somehow becomes an AWD when it comes out, I would drool over it and cry at the same time. I wont complain though.. I'll still love my MS6. It definitely has a classier look.

[marshall-BJ-VE]

I like both... but when you have a limited budget, maybe with the money you pay for a MSP6 fully loaded, you get a nice MPS3 and money for aftermarket parts, also for young people looks more close MSP3 style...

[Cloke]

I got the pic from the mazda.ca site. They have plenty of cool pics, like this...

http://www.mazda.ca/eng/Vehicles/MazdaSpeed3/800x600/mazdaspeed3_14.jpg

[marshall-BJ-VE]

right click... set as wallpaper

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

when this comming out in the end? any time frame?

[seanw]

when this comming out in the end? any time frame?

Oct./Nov. I believe. A month or so earlier in Canada.

[Cloke]

My dealer says late September or Early Oct, where do you get Nov?

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

my dealer told me july a few weeks ago but im calling bs on that one lol...

[seanw]

My dealer says late September or Early Oct, where do you get Nov?

Straight outta my butt, sort of. Wongpres in the 3 section says the plan is Aug/Sep for Canada with US dealers being 2-4 weeks later., or Sep/Oct for US. Since plans are always optimistic, I'm betting Oct/Nov for US, same time they started getting MS6's to the dealer last year.

[Cloke]

Straight outta my butt, sort of. Wongpres in the 3 section says the plan is Aug/Sep for Canada with US dealers being 2-4 weeks later., or Sep/Oct for US. Since plans are always optimistic, I'm betting Oct/Nov for US, same time they started getting MS6's to the dealer last year.

Your butt is smart on that. I just want to get mine asap. I dont even care about selling my protege. The down payment will help but I know for a fact i will do all in my power to get this car.

[seanw]

Your butt is smart on that. I just want to get mine asap. I dont even care about selling my protege. The down payment will help but I know for a fact i will do all in my power to get this car.

I feel your pain, man. I've got a shot of that bad boy as my desktop. I love my 6, but I gotta find a way to make the 3 Mazda number two in the garage. Maybe the minivan will mysteriously catch on fire while I'm driving it by myself some time between now and the Fall . . . .

[sea6speed]

New poll: screw driver or hammer?

Like others have said, I don't think these 2 cars overlap much in terms of buyers. Mostly because of the AWD.

[seanw]

New poll: screw driver or hammer?

Like others have said, I don't think these 2 cars overlap much in terms of buyers. Mostly because of the AWD.

I don't think AWD matters all that much to those of us driving on dry roads 90% of the time. I have to test drive the MS3 to know for sure if AWD makes that much difference in the corners, but in principle I am willing to trade it for a much better HP/lbs ratio. Even some of the MS6 drag racers are interested as I recall.

What I'm not sure about is whether I can live with the smaller feel inside. Objectively it's only a cubic foot of difference, but subjectively if feels like a lot.

[sea6speed]

I don't think AWD matters all that much to those of us driving on dry roads 90% of the time.

True, we've got twice as many days of rain per year as you do. (around 150!) But there's other reasons too.

- Launch faster
- No Torque steer
- Don't burn up tires trying to get traction

[seanw]

True, we've got twice as many days of rain per year as you do. (around 150!) But there's other reasons too.

- Launch faster
- No Torque steer
- Don't burn up tires trying to get traction

These problems are pretty much just limited to standing start/drag racing. But as I noted even some MS6 owners who seemingly live to drag race have expressed interest in the MS3 due to it's high P/W ratio. Me, I'm more interested in the ability to accelerate once I'm already underway, both in a straight line and through the corners (Zoom, Zoom!). I'm think Mazda will have come up with a torque steer solution for the MS3 that will be more than acceptable.

Truth is my acceleration addiction is growing and in not too distant future I'm gonna need a bigger fix than the MS6 can provide. I'm hoping the MS3 can provide it, and then over time keep providing bigger and bigger fixes as needed through new mods. Hopefully, they'll sell a lot and we'll see a good aftermarket response to wring every last drop of the DISI's potential for torque.

[VermZ06]

my dealer told me july a few weeks ago but im calling bs on that one lol...

A salesman at Grappone in Concord, NH told me the same thing....end of July (I flinched at him):bs:

[seanw]

A salesman at Grappone in Concord, NH told me the same thing....end of July (I flinched at him):bs:

Looking like it might be September:

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2504528#post2504528

[dogma]

My view, they are both Mazda's with a great engine. Trying to dispell the significance of AWD is just plain jealousy. The truth of the matter is the MS6 is the big brother better looking and definately more sex appeal. I traded in my SVTF for the MS6 and have never looked back. I thought about waiting for MS3 but the MS6 had more apeal to me. I can't tell you how many compliments I get. My friend just bought a Mustang GT and although we have not raced we have driven each others car and he has conseeded my car is faster and most definately handles way better. my other friend that has an STI thinks my car seems to feel like it handles better and is almost as quick. That being said the MS3 may be a little faster because of the power to weight ratio is insignificant to me. The MS3 is still an entry vehicle like the SVTF was both great cars . I personally would have rather seen Mazda make the M3 sedan the speed version with awd. Don't get me wrong I really like the hatchback ,but I think the sedan is better looking.
I hope the MS3 kicks the butt of all the Hondas,SRT's and such, so hopefully they can start making some after market parts for our engine.
All this back and forth MS6 is better than MS3 or vice versa should stop.bottom line they are both Mazda's we should all be happy. Look how Ford killed the SVT's.

Again the only people who do not think AWD is significant is the people who do not have it !

[seanw]

My view, they are both Mazda's with a great engine. Trying to dispell the significance of AWD is just plain jealousy. The truth of the matter is the MS6 is the big brother better looking and definately more sex appeal. . . .. That being said the MS3 may be a little faster because of the power to weight ratio is insignificant to me. . . ..

All this back and forth MS6 is better than MS3 or vice versa should stop.bottom line they are both Mazda's we should all be happy. Look how Ford killed the SVT's.

Again the only people who do not think AWD is significant is the people who do not have it !

FWIW-

First off, I own an MS6 and I love it. I have a blast every time I drive it. That won't change no matter how much I compare it to the MS3. To suggest that all this inter-Mazdaspeed strife will somehow cause the program to be "killed" like the SVT program (?!) seems silly. That said . . .

Point One: I don't discount the value of AWD in bad weather and when drag racing. I just question it's value the rest of the time given the weight penalty. Like I said, a test drive through the twisties will decide this for me.

Point Two: The MS6 is definitely bigger and better looking. I really hope my wife will give up the minivan so I can keep the MS6 my garage for trips with the whole fam damily. After all it's her fault I dont' own a motorcycle to give me the acceleration fix I need.

Point Three: A little faster? The MS6 lbs/hp ratio = 13, MS3 = 11.25. The MS6 would have to put out 320 HP to have the same ratio as the MS3. I think it will be a lot faster in roll-ons, which is significant to me cause that is where I have the most fun.

[dogma]

FWIW-

First off, I own an MS6 and I love it. I have a blast every time I drive it. That won't change no matter how much I compare it to the MS3. To suggest that all this inter-Mazdaspeed strife will somehow cause the program to be "killed" like the SVT program (?!) seems silly. That said . . .

Point One: I don't discount the value of AWD in bad weather and when drag racing. I just question it's value the rest of the time given the weight penalty. Like I said, a test drive through the twisties will decide this for me.

Point Two: The MS6 is definitely bigger and better looking. I really hope my wife will give up the minivan so I can keep the MS6 my garage for trips with the whole fam damily. After all it's her fault I dont' own a motorcycle to give me the acceleration fix I need.

Point Three: A little faster? The MS6 yas a w/p ratio = 13, MS3 = 11.25. The MS6 would have to put out 320 HP to have the same ratio as the MS3. I think it will be a lot faster in roll-ons, which is significant to me cause that is where I have the most fun.

Sorry if you misunderstood me. Never suggested that your point is what caused the demise of SVT. What I was trying to get across is that they are both Mazda's we should be excited we 2 performance cars to choose from.

Also I do not drag race and don't intend to and the couple of tenths of second between the 2 are to me insignificant. What matters to me is that the MS6 is one of the most gorgeous cars on the road. My car will praobably never see rain or snow for me the AWD makes the MS6 handle better than the MS3. I like the AWD for handling not weather. Again the MS6 is an upgrade to the MS3 and the few tenths of a second are insignificant to me.
You can try to fish for any reason to try to put the MS3 above the 6 it ain't happening. Don't get me wrong the MS3 is anawesome car and I will defend it to the death against any other car made. All this in house fighting about the 2 should be stopped. I will defend my little brother outside the family.

[awsmp5]

i would go with the ms3 cuz i'm not too into big cars. i'd rather have a small quick car i guess. although the 6 looks somewhat better. its a touch choice. it all comes down to personal preference

[seanw]

. . .. Again the MS6 is an upgrade to the MS3 and the few tenths of a second are insignificant to me.
You can try to fish for any reason to try to put the MS3 above the 6 it ain't happening. Don't get me wrong the MS3 is anawesome car and I will defend it to the death against any other car made. All this in house fighting about the 2 should be stopped. I will defend my little brother outside the family.

The MS6 is an upgrade on some fronts but not others. (enguard) The two cars are really more like equals. Okay, let's use the brother analogy. The MS6 is the larger, better looking, more responsible, older brother. Still an athelete but getting a little chunky due to family life. The MS3 is not as good looking. It's also smaller and more compact (1 cubic ft. less interior space), but just as strong (power loss due to AWD drivetrain negates 7 HP difference?). It's the better athelete of the two because it's still trim which makes it more nimble and faster once it's wheels stop spinning and it gets traction. Without AWD it's not as stable, so it's a little more reckless, like a typical younger brother. So, it's a trade off: better looking, more family oriented, still very athletic older brother; vs. equally powerfull, faster, more nimble, but less accomodating and a little more reckless younger brother.

Nuff said? (Probably too much for most. Oh, well.)

[dogma]

Who are you trying to convince me or you? Your right though enough said.

[seanw]

Who are you trying to convince me or you? Your right though enough said.

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

[VermZ06]

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

The MS3 will be the better performer of the two. It has been proven that smaller and lighter cars are better performers. The two have the same engine with just about identical power. The MS3 is obviously the lighter of the two, but does not have the AWD. AWD is only a factor when launching, when your foot is on the gas pedal moving through those twisties or in harsh road conditions. Even though the MS6 is AWD, it is still a porker and will have trouble keeping up with its lighter brother. The AWD does not make up for its weight. Just look at the old neon SRT-4 v. WRX. Just about same power, however, SRT-4 typically comes out on top even from the dig because of its lower weight. I think the SRT-4 is around 5.5 seconds 0-60 whereas the WRX is 5.8. The MS6 is a kick ass car and I wish I had one, but I don't think I'll ever be able to get rid of the MSP. (nana)

[dogma]

Could have been enough, but no, you had to come back with the amateur psych.

You're obviously vested in the MS6, so there's no convincing you. I'm trying to convince people like myself who believed in the dogma that AWD is always worth the weight penalty. I'm questioning this dogma especially in the case of small car that is still relatively light and where the AWD in question is the Haldex, described by some as more of a power takeoff than true AWD.

Since we're using amateur psych, I hope you're happiness with the MS6 isn't dependent on a need to see it as superior in performance to the MS3, 'cause it just might not be.

For the couple of tenths of a second, I will take the better looking car. The SRT4 may be a tad faster but the is no comparision to the handling. Oh yea If I am not mistaken the WRX is AWD. By the way what do you drive?

[Antoine]

Interesting to note the MS3 is actually edging out the MS6 in the thread poll above! In any case I think the MS3 will appeal to a wider market than the MS6...

[USeeMyExhaust]

xexexe 57 tie after casted my vote to ofcourse the ms6 ;)
any idea on the price of ms3?

[seanw]

For the couple of tenths of a second, I will take the better looking car. The SRT4 may be a tad faster but the is no comparision to the handling. Oh yea If I am not mistaken the WRX is AWD. By the way what do you drive?

MS6 with 7500 miles on it. I'm not talking about a couple of tenths of a second in the 1/4 mile. I'm talking about the awesome roll-on acceleration that will come from having a 500 lb. lighter car with almost the same power at the crank, and maybe even a little more power at the wheels (given the power train loss on the MS6's AWD system). I think the MS3 is going to walk away from A LOT of cars in roll-ons, not just the MS6. The only open question is cornering. Does the Haldex AWD on MS6 really improve cornering enough to make up for the extra 500 lbs over MS3? Come September I aim to find out.

[seanw]

xexexe 57 tie after casted my vote to ofcourse the ms6 ;) . . . .

Not any more!

[seanw]

The MS3 will be the better performer of the two. . . . . AWD is only a factor when launching, when your foot is on the gas pedal moving through those twisties or in harsh road conditions. . . . . Even though the MS6 is AWD, it is still a porker and will have trouble keeping up with its lighter brother. The AWD does not make up for its weight. . . .(nana)

Acceleration in a straight line is a lot of fun, but acceleration through a corner is even more fun. So it's the "foot on the gas pedal moving through the twisties" that I'm wondering about.

See the RWD/FWD/AWD comparo in MT: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0506_front_rear_allwheel_drive/. After reading this article it is obvious to me that AWD is definitely superior to both FWD and RWD in terms of inherent cornering ability. Just look at the exit speeds at the end of the article. And, although the MS6 is not a true AWD, I can actually feel it tighten up a corner when I step on the gas (along with the little hiccup the AWD makes when it kicks in). But I can also feel its heaviness when hitting the apex. Given this tradeoff, I won't know for sure whether the MS6's AWD "makes up for its weight" in the twisties, (at least with me at the wheel) until I actually drive the MS3.

[dogma]

Still trying to convince yourself . Maybe you should buy one? And get rid of your porker.

[crossbow]

It should be noted that we still don't know the MS3's exact curb weight. It "should" be 500 lbs or so lighter. It's usually about 100 lbs or 10-15bhp to make a 0.1 difference in a vehicles 1/4 mile time, given the same levels of traction and such.

If the MS3 is 500 lbs lighter, the difference in handling and acceleration will be rather massive compared to the MS6. 500 lbs is ALOT of weight. Fill your car with 3-4 friends in your MS6 and drive around. Then have all of them get out, and drive around. That gives you an idea of the performance difference you're looking at. The difference will be rather massive...basically add roughly 50-60 bhp to the MS6, and that's about what an MS3 would feel like stock.

However mazda could throw alot more weight on the MS3, making it more like 300 lbs lighter...instead of 500.

[seanw]

Still trying to convince yourself . Maybe you should buy one? And get rid of your porker.

I really have no motive to convince myself. As an amateur psychologist, you should know that by now.

I think the "porker" (you'll note that I never call it that) is a great car and I would be happy to own until it croaks. Ideally, as I mentioned in a prior post, I'd like to keep the MS6 for times when I've got the whole family with me. Unfortunately, my wife would never take the MS6 in place of her minivan as a daily driver. So I would have to trade the MS6 in if I decide to get the MS3.

But I'll only be CONVINCED to get the MS3 by a test drive which shows that: 1) they really have come up with an acceptable way to manage torque steer; 2) it is really a better car in the twisties; and 3) I can live with the slightly more cramped space in the MS3.

[seanw]

It should be noted that we still don't know the MS3's exact curb weight. It "should" be 500 lbs or so lighter. . . . .

However mazda could throw alot more weight on the MS3, making it more like 300 lbs lighter...instead of 500.

That would definitely suck and make it much less attractive. FWD and heavy should not get the Mazdaspeed badge IMHO. I guess all the upgraded parts, stiffening, and turbo accoutrement could make it 200 lbs more than the 3 hatch. We'll have to keep our fingers crossed.

[dogma]

I really have no motive to convince myself. As an amateur psychologist, you should know that by now.

I think the "porker" (you'll note that I never call it that) is a great car and I would be happy to own until it croaks. Ideally, as I mentioned in a prior post, I'd like to keep the MS6 for times when I've got the whole family with me. Unfortunately, my wife would never take the MS6 in place of her minivan as a daily driver. So I would have to trade the MS6 in if I decide to get the MS3.

But I'll only be CONVINCED to get the MS3 by a test drive which shows that: 1) they really have come up with an acceptable way to manage torque steer; 2) it is really a better car in the twisties; and 3) I can live with the slightly more cramped space in the MS3.

Whatever .


I wonder if the sport weighs less than the GT and would that make difference ?

Why don't you get you wife a MS3 its sort of like a minivan :)

[seanw]

Whatever .


I wonder if the sport weighs less than the GT and would that make difference ?

Why don't you get you wife a MS3 its sort of like a minivan :)

I was gonna say "whatever" to your post but thought it sounded childish. If the MS3 is sort of like a minivan it's one that has a nice low center of gravity and the ability to smoke a lot of coupes. My wife's actually on your side since she thinks the 3 hatch looks like a starter car. Like you apparently, she never took physics, so she has no appreciation of power/weight ratios either. But enough about your smiley face posts.

FWIW here's an interesting press release posted by someone on Edmunds MS3 forum about the MS Axela:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200606/0606.html

Notice that the yen price difference from the Axela Sport is about 11%. Also the weight difference is 90 kilos. The MS Axela at least weighs in at about a little over 3000 lbs. Let's hope the US spec MS3 keeps close to that weight.

[Chris-BE]

The Speed3 will out sell the Speed6. You will still see dealers with 5-10 Speed6's sitting around but the Speed3's will turn over like Camry's.

Hopefully Mazda will put together a really nice marketing plan, and hit the import scene. This car could do huge things.

I wish I could share my experience with the Speed3.

[nautical2086]

id like the ms3 if it wasnt the wagon, the wagon just is weird looking, so id get the 6.

[Breeegz]

I think the sedan looks weird...

so there

[dogma]

I was gonna say "whatever" to your post but thought it sounded childish. If the MS3 is sort of like a minivan it's one that has a nice low center of gravity and the ability to smoke a lot of coupes. My wife's actually on your side since she thinks the 3 hatch looks like a starter car. Like you apparently, she never took physics, so she has no appreciation of power/weight ratios either. But enough about your smiley face posts.

FWIW here's an interesting press release posted by someone on Edmunds MS3 forum about the MS Axela:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200606/0606.html

Notice that the yen price difference from the Axela Sport is about 11%. Also the weight difference is 90 kilos. The MS Axela at least weighs in at about a little over 3000 lbs. Let's hope the US spec MS3 keeps close to that weight.


Just give it up. I am not impressed by magazine quotes. Sounds like your wife wears the pants anyway.:)

[seanw]

. . . .
I wish I could share my experience with the Speed3. I'll have to ask the suits.

Wait, you're the first person I know of to say they've driven one. Share, man, share! Never mind the suits. Can't you use an alias or something or send me a PM and I'll post based on my very secret source who drove the MS3.

[dogma]

Wait, you're the first person I know of to say they've driven one. Share, man, share! Never mind the suits. Can't you use an alias or something or send me a PM and I'll post based on my very secret source who drove the MS3.


Do you need the secret hand shake too? Don't get caught you will be on double secret probation (yawn)

[seanw]

Just give it up. I am not impressed by magazine quotes. Sounds like your wife wears the pants anyway.:)

Wow, a troglodyte who likes to use smiley faces. Seems contradictory, but I guess it's a short hop from the cave to joyful Walmart shopper. Anyway, to quote the governor of the great State of Texas: "Adios, mofo."

[Chris-BE]

True story.

[dogma]

Wow, a troglodyte who likes to use smiley faces. Seems contradictory, but I guess it's a short hop from the cave to joyful Walmart shopper. Anyway, to quote the governor of the great State of Texas: "Adios, mofo."


Well, it just goes to show how really uneducated you are. I don't know what you have against Walmart since thats where you bought your wifes engagement ring. I thought you Texas boys loved Walmart. To quote our Governor " Your inferior MOFO " :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Cloke]

Okay boys, that's enough, if you don't stop I'll turn this car around. I'm pretty much sold on the MS3. The only thing that will stop me is if they say, no asians. Then I'll go all A LA LA LA LA on their arse.

[seanw]

Okay boys, that's enough, if you don't stop I'll turn this car around. . . . .

What? Did somebody say something? All I can hear are unintelligible grunting noises.

Anyway, here are some random pix from a poster on edmunds of some MS3's on the ground.

http://www.kirill626.com/mazdaspeed3/_catalog.html

I don't know, I'm kinda wishing it was more distinct from the regular 3 hatch. The MS6 has the bigger grill opening (fake, but still looks cool) and the pronounced raise in the hood that makes it look a little sinister. The MS3's differences are a lot more muted and it's a little on the cute side. But with its brutish power/weight ratio, I guess it's kind of a like a troglodyte with a big smiley face covering up its caveman face. Yeah, style ain't everything. If it's even more of a sleeper than the 6, that's not all bad.

Of course, if the handling isn't there or torque steer is a noticeable problem, it's just a troglodyte without any trace of sophistication like the SRT-4s. Then it's thumbs down, IMHO. :)
(laugh)

[dogma]

What? Did somebody say something? All I can hear are unintelligible grunting noises.

Anyway, here are some random pix from a poster on edmunds of some MS3's on the ground.

http://www.kirill626.com/mazdaspeed3/_catalog.html

I don't know, I'm kinda wishing it was more distinct from the regular 3 hatch. The MS6 has the bigger grill opening (fake, but still looks cool) and the pronounced raise in the hood that makes it look a little sinister. The MS3's differences are a lot more muted and it's a little on the cute side. But with its brutish power/weight ratio, I guess it's kind of a like a troglodyte with a big smiley face covering up its caveman face. Yeah, style ain't everything. If it's even more of a sleeper than the 6, that's not all bad.

Of course, if the handling isn't there or torque steer is a noticeable problem, it's just a troglodyte without any trace of sophistication like the SRT-4s. Then it's thumbs down, IMHO. :)
(laugh)



I see you learned a new word at Walmart. Too bad geeks like you need to hide behind the net.:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[seanw]

It's just speculation at this point, but if the MS3 comes in with the same hp as the MS Axela (260) and weight (3064 lbs.), it will have a power/weight ratio of 11.78. I know that the AWD STi and Evo will kick its FWD butt, but by how much? The Evo, maybe not so much for a lot more cash.

2006 WRX STi
3262 lbs curb weight
2.5L TH4 6 spd manual
HP 300@6000
TQ 300@4000
10.9 lbs/HP

2006 Evo IX (not MR)
2L TI4 5 spd manual (MR = 6 spd)
3285 lbs curb weight
HP 286@6500
TQ 289@3500
11.5 lbs/HP

As Rainman pointed out, the MS6 has a p/w ratio of 13.1 which is better than all the AWD cars in it's class, so I am not dissing the MS6. (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2260595&postcount=41)

[Breeegz]

I think that really puts the MS3 in perspective... How much is the Caliber weighing?

[seanw]

I think that really puts the MS3 in perspective... How much is the Caliber weighing?

Haven't seen anything on that. But the base model with the 1.8 liter engine weighs 3000 lbs. and the R/T AWD with CVT and the 2.4 liter engine weighs 3300. It's gotta end up somewhere in between, I guess. With 300 hp, it will be a brute and definitely out accelerate the MS3 in a straight line. Even at 3300 lbs the p/w ratio is 11 hp/lbs. But it's a Dodge. Even if you're one of the unenlightened who consider the 3 hatch to be a homely mini-minivan (not me, I like it and always have), you have to agree that the Caliber is one ugly Mini-Me Durango.

[Breeegz]

To me a Caliber looks like the illegitimate love child of a Durango and Ugly...

I don't know what Dodge was thinking... they coulda styled it like the Magnum, I like that one.

[Rainman]

Just reading the July issue of Sport Compact Car yesterday when I came upon their list of cars in their project garage. On pg 152 they list the Acura RSX Type-S as one of their brand new project cars that, as yet, does not have any mods. Apparently, they lucked upon a bonanza of parts for this little gem and are putting it together with features that include a built long block and a turbo. The interesting part is that their shoot-out competitor is the Mazdaspeed 3.(omg)

I think that this is incredible. The car ain't even out yet and already people are planning on ways to take it down. The fact that they are modding an RSX Type-S to achieve this goal suggests that they aren't just tossing together a bunch of crap for this shoot-out. I guess that people are finally starting to take the Mazdapseed marque seriously.

What do ya think? Comments?

R

[Antoine]

There is no doubt that the MS3 is going to get A LOT of attention...My main concern is that it gets the RIGHT attention...I hope future owners/members are going to be the type that can appreciate a car for it's overall performance and value than it's "pimp" factor.

[seanw]

There is no doubt that the MS3 is going to get A LOT of attention...My main concern is that it gets the RIGHT attention...I hope future owners/members are going to be the type that can appreciate a car for it's overall performance and value than it's "pimp" factor.

I think it being a hatch will lessen the pimp factor from what I've read in these forums. You know, the "mini-minivan" comments, etc. The hatch is great for people who need to do stuff with the car instead of just cruising and being seen. Also, not being able to claim having the most hp like the Caliber SRT-4 will limit it's pimp appeal.

[nautical2086]

has to be performance, and pimp factor to be cool, It has the performance indeed, but Needs something more for the pimp factor, which i'm sure they will have good aftermarket for this thing.

[seanw]

Just reading the July issue of Sport Compact Car yesterday when I came upon their list of cars in their project garage. On pg 152 they list the Acura RSX Type-S. . . .The interesting part is that their shoot-out competitor is the Mazdaspeed 3.(omg)

I think that this is incredible. The car ain't even out yet and already people are planning on ways to take it down. . . . .I guess that people are finally starting to take the Mazdapseed marque seriously.

What do ya think? Comments?

R

Yeah, that is really something. You think they got a test drive and really know what their talking about? I think people are starting to realize Mazdaspeed = power-to-weight + handling + refinement / cost. Other car makers succeed at one part or another of this formula but not all like Mazdaspeed. IMHO they got the job done on the MS6 and it's looks like they did it on the MS3, too. We'll see in the next few months.

[Cloke]

new information from my local Mazda dealer.

A Corp Mazda rep stopped by the other day and gave my guys the down lown on whats going on.


She gave them pretty much all in the info we had but some other stuff. Mazda will be releasing the stock mph at 250 but thte latest dino was 268, they will keep dyno until hte have a suficient speed or in other words stable.

Also, the pirce of the MS3 has not been released yet but its nothing way over the oriinal price of the current M3. The $24k questmate price should be correct.

My mazda rep will not be back till moday b/c he is on vacation this weekend but i'll get the info they gave him and i'll giive it to you all.

Now they are taking orders now or names at least and its a $500 deposit to have a car held for you when it comes. I will be reserving a blck mzsd3. I will be probabaly the first in Oklahoma have to have one waiting for me at least. I know I said that aboot the ms6 i wanted but i decided to wait till this dropped late agust late sept.

What do you all think aboot that?

[dogma]

That's great if you prefer the MS3. As everyone has pointed out since its a lighter car is should be straight line faster,but will not out handle the MS6.
countless others and myself would have prefered if they used the 3 sedan since its looks so much better than the hatch.And of course AWD would have been awesome. But I guess they had to keep it afforadable since it is an entry level car. It should be the top entry level performance car around ,but in my opinion AWD would have made it untouchable. I can't wait to see the magazine comparisons. I say if you can't afford or don't want to afford the MS6 go for the next best thing the MS3 .

[crossbow]

Simple physics...lighter car's outhandle heavier cars.

As lotus always says..."We put lightness into everything".

500 lbs is a crazy amount of heft. Fill up your car with 500 lbs of friends, drive around, then ask them to get out, and drive around. Gives you a rough idea of the difference.

I'd say 100 lbs is enough to make a noticable difference at the track (road course)...500 lbs would be a completely difference vehicle.

[dogma]

Simple physics...lighter car's outhandle heavier cars.

As lotus always says..."We put lightness into everything".

500 lbs is a crazy amount of heft. Fill up your car with 500 lbs of friends, drive around, then ask them to get out, and drive around. Gives you a rough idea of the difference.

I'd say 100 lbs is enough to make a noticable difference at the track (road course)...500 lbs would be a completely difference vehicle.

Only if its capable of out handling it in the first place. Apples to apples yes, apples to oranges no. I think a Lotus weighing 500lbs more than a MS3 will still out handle it.

[BlueSolrac]

That's great if you prefer the MS3. As everyone has pointed out since its a lighter car is should be straight line faster,but will not out handle the MS6.

What makes you think that it will not outhandle the MS6? Because it is FWD? Incase you didn't know the MS6 actually drives like a FWD vehicle. The AWD in this case does not compensate for the added weight (in terms of handling.)

Like Crossbow said, a lighter car will obviously be more nimble. There is no exception here. The MS3 is going to be much lighter with similar numbers as the MS6. It will outhandle a MS6.

[dogma]

Yesterday I went to the autocross race thats held every two weeks. I have been observing for about a year and half and actully tried my SVTF pn a test and tune day. There are alltypes of cars from Corvettes,M3's Rx7's,350Z's Mustangs's Miata's Cobra replicas STI's ,Evo's and even a lotus. Guess what car's consistantly have the best times? The STI and the Evolution! The RX7's and 350Z's come in really good to but never beat the AWD cars.
One of the guy's has a Mazda3 hatch that's moded with serious uprades to suspension ,rims,tires and engine mods. He let me drive his and I let him drive mine. We both agree that the MS6 out hadles the 3 hatch. Unless the MS3 has a 300% better suspension then he has it will not out handle the MS6. I am not saying that the MS6 is the best handling car in the world ,but it will out handle the 3. As far as being lighter sure the Ms3 could be straight line faster by a little. I will take AWD any day. How much weight difference between the EVO,STI and MS3 ? If they happen to be the same weight or real close what will handle better? EVO or STI for sure.

The MS3 is a great car ( probably should have used the sedan though,since it's looks are much better) The MS3 is an entry level car the MS6 is an upgrade, IF they do a SpeedRX8 that would be something ( hopefully its AWD ! )

[BlueSolrac]

There are alltypes of cars from Corvettes,M3's Rx7's,350Z's Mustangs's Miata's Cobra replicas STI's ,Evo's and even a lotus. Guess what car's consistantly have the best times? The STI and the Evolution! The RX7's and 350Z's come in really good to but never beat the AWD cars.


And what does that prove? Autocrossing is about the driver not the car. It doesn't matter how great your car handles if you can’t drive it. And I thought you wanted to compare apples to apples? The Sti and Evo AWD systems are both superior to the Speed6 Haldex system. The Speed6 only allows up to 50/50 torque distribution.

You seem to be under the impression that any AWD vehicle will always out handle a FWD or RWD vehicle? AWD, FWD and RWD all have different characteristics and are used for different applications. One is not better than the other in every case (i.e. handling.)



One of the guy's has a Mazda3 hatch that's moded with serious uprades to suspension ,rims,tires and engine mods. He let me drive his and I let him drive mine. We both agree that the MS6 out hadles the 3 hatch. Unless the MS3 has a 300% better suspension then he has it will not out handle the MS6. I am not saying that the MS6 is the best handling car in the world ,but it will out handle the 3. As far as being lighter sure the Ms3 could be straight line faster by a little. I will take AWD any day. How much weight difference between the EVO,STI and MS3 ? If they happen to be the same weight or real close what will handle better? EVO or STI for sure.


You are also extremely defensive when it comes to the Speed6. I have no idea why. The Speed6 is an awesome car. But you can’t ignore physics. Weight not only affects the acceleration of a vehicle but its dynamics (cornering, braking and stability) as well. Weight makes a BIG difference.

[dogma]

I may be a bit defensive about the MS6. But you guys are trying to make the MS3 out to be the next EVO of STI. Its not its another entry level car with a lot of hp that should have been AWD and its ugly( they should have used the sedan ).

[BlueSolrac]

Mmmm...I don't see it as the next Evo or Sti, but I believe it will be about as popular as the SRT4. I honestly think it is a smart move by Mazda to appeal to the younger crowd. Looks much better than the SRT4 with more refinements. However I am still partial to the look and luxurious feel of the Speed6 which is why I plan on purchasing one at the end of the year. (drive)

[Cloke]

Check this out...

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3&bhcp=1

[MS6S2K]

I may be a bit defensive about the MS6. But you guys are trying to make the MS3 out to be the next EVO of STI. Its not its another entry level car with a lot of hp that should have been AWD and its ugly( they should have used the sedan ).


I agree, but looks are of course subjective, so that's simply a preference. I traded in my STI for an MS6, and of course I lost out on the performance/fun factor (but needed a smoother, easier to live with daily so I sacrificed) big time. Not even close. I can't imagine that a FWD MS3 will hold up at all against any EVO or STi, and the car is a hatchback for that reason. From a roll though, depending on it's tuning, it could give those cars a bit of a run like the SRT did in bone stock vs bone stock form. The SRT of course was way underrated in it's specs, as it dyno averages at 220hp to the wheels. As a former RX8 owner, I'm also aware that the RX8 is overrated on power, being that they rated it in 04-05 at 238hp (232hp now), yet it dyno'ed regularly at 180-185whp, which is way too much drivetrain loss for a RWD car. I dyo'ed my former 01 S2000 at 201whp and it was rated at 240. It was most certainly faster then the RX8, even if I threw 200lbs in the trunk to even out the weight differrence.The MS6 doesn't feel like 274hp, and the 250hp Legacy GT is faster. Mazda is infamous for overrating their performance cars, so we'll have to see.

The MS3 of course is not meant to compete against an EVO or STI, but people who buy this car will want to test them out I'm sure. It's an affordable enthusiast car that will appeal to a younger crowd. Evos and STIs appeal to a younger crowd as well, but they are much more expensive. The MS3 will be a super bang for your buck car. You don't buy an MS6 to race around a track, or take to a drag strip. It's more of a luxury car, which is why it's failed in the enthusiast market. The MS3 will have the lightweight and speed to take out an MS6, but that doesn't make it a better car. For many people speed is what matters. I do wish this MS6 had a bit more power, and wasn't so heavy, but I'm over it, and enjoying it for it's great looks, and luxurious feel. I don't own it as a car to race like I did with my STI, I own it as a car to drive and enjoy it's smooth quiet ride, and nice acceleration and handling for a car this size. :)

In the end, it's all subjective and we will argue our opinions to death, thinking we are right. The fact is, whatever one individual prefers is what is the best to them, and that's all that matters. :)

[dogma]

Your right all this comparing the MS3 to MS6 is subjective. We really shouldn't compare them they are 2 totally different classes of cars as are the EVO and STI. The 3 represents the entry market, the 6 represents the luxury/sport and the EVO&STI the race side.

All I know is I just finished washing my velocity red MS6 and it gorgeous. At this point and what I paid for it nothing compares.

[Cloke]

Any news on release date or anything else?

[Wiggum]

Interesting opinion, I hope to see your MSP around Orlando sometime....

[Rotary_Powered]

MSP still rocks! It can still hang with the new Si and GTI! Anyways, well hmm... the MS6 is a better all around car because of AWD, better for launching, and more stable. But the MS3 is lighter and makes a great track car...I don't know...

[seanw]

Any news on release date or anything else?

Well, per a post on the Mazda Canada forum, a dealer somewhere up there in the hinterland says he'll have 2 cars in 10 days. Another post (from a "Mazda insider"?) then stated that the "okay to release date" is today and speculated that with the boat trip starting today, the cars would arrive in Canada on about Sept. 7th.

[seanw]

I agree, but looks are of course subjective, so that's simply a preference. I traded in my STI for an MS6, and of course I lost out on the performance/fun factor (but needed a smoother, easier to live with daily so I sacrificed) big time. Not even close. I can't imagine that a FWD MS3 will hold up at all against any EVO or STi, and the car is a hatchback for that reason. From a roll though, depending on it's tuning, it could give those cars a bit of a run like the SRT did in bone stock vs bone stock form. The SRT of course was way underrated in it's specs, as it dyno averages at 220hp to the wheels. As a former RX8 owner, I'm also aware that the RX8 is overrated on power, being that they rated it in 04-05 at 238hp (232hp now), yet it dyno'ed regularly at 180-185whp, which is way too much drivetrain loss for a RWD car. I dyo'ed my former 01 S2000 at 201whp and it was rated at 240. It was most certainly faster then the RX8, even if I threw 200lbs in the trunk to even out the weight differrence.The MS6 doesn't feel like 274hp, and the 250hp Legacy GT is faster. Mazda is infamous for overrating their performance cars, so we'll have to see.

The MS3 of course is not meant to compete against an EVO or STI, but people who buy this car will want to test them out I'm sure. It's an affordable enthusiast car that will appeal to a younger crowd. Evos and STIs appeal to a younger crowd as well, but they are much more expensive. The MS3 will be a super bang for your buck car. You don't buy an MS6 to race around a track, or take to a drag strip. It's more of a luxury car, which is why it's failed in the enthusiast market. The MS3 will have the lightweight and speed to take out an MS6, but that doesn't make it a better car. For many people speed is what matters. I do wish this MS6 had a bit more power, and wasn't so heavy, but I'm over it, and enjoying it for it's great looks, and luxurious feel. I don't own it as a car to race like I did with my STI, I own it as a car to drive and enjoy it's smooth quiet ride, and nice acceleration and handling for a car this size. :)

In the end, it's all subjective and we will argue our opinions to death, thinking we are right. The fact is, whatever one individual prefers is what is the best to them, and that's all that matters. :)

A big amen to that. Incidentally, the SCC test drive article mentions that Mazdaspeed performance benchmarked a bunch of cars during the MS3 dev process and viewed the STi and EVO as "stretch targets".

[Cloke]

Well, I see from the mazdausa.com site that they have a price on the MS3 now, if Im reposting i sorry but it's new to me and its my thread. I see the price is starting at $22,835. now I know thats the sports model so whats the price of the GT? Maybe bumping the price about 2 or 3k? As we see Canada may be getting them in 10 so called days. So target date for Americans is early October...

::EDIT::
Just talked with the dealer and they gave me the price for the GT model. $24,590. They showed me the price on a silver MS3 GT thats coming in. ("There's a buzz about them and they are going to sell out fast")

I recommend that if you don't have your deposit down yet ($500) to hold onto it at the dealership.

[seanw]

"Well, I see from the mazdausa.com site that they have a price on the MS3 now, if Im reposting i sorry but it's new to me and its my thread. I see the price is starting at $22,835. now I know thats the sports model so whats the price of the GT? Maybe bumping the price about 2 or 3k? As we see Canada may be getting them in 10 so called days. So target date for Americans is early October...

::EDIT::
Just talked with the dealer and they gave me the price for the GT model. $24,590. They showed me the price on a silver MS3 GT thats coming in. ("There's a buzz about them and they are going to sell out fast")

I recommend that if you don't have your deposit down yet ($500) to hold onto it at the dealership." -Cloak

That's good that your dealer is sticking with MSRP, at least so far.

[noclue119]

"Well, I see from the mazdausa.com site that they have a price on the MS3 now, if Im reposting i sorry but it's new to me and its my thread. I see the price is starting at $22,835. now I know thats the sports model so whats the price of the GT? Maybe bumping the price about 2 or 3k? As we see Canada may be getting them in 10 so called days. So target date for Americans is early October...

::EDIT::
Just talked with the dealer and they gave me the price for the GT model. $24,590. They showed me the price on a silver MS3 GT thats coming in. ("There's a buzz about them and they are going to sell out fast")

I recommend that if you don't have your deposit down yet ($500) to hold onto it at the dealership." -Cloak

That's good that your dealer is sticking with MSRP, at least so far.

ummm remember mazdaspeed protege when the came out they were more than MSRP. But a year later, mine was bought for like 17k

[Captain KRM P5]

wait a year folks, save a few grand

[CorkSport]

Put a down on a Black GT edition today. Sale price $23499 includes destination charges ($595). I am very happy about this.
I'll agree that these get cheaper by the end of next year but I could not wait.

[Captain KRM P5]

Put a down on a Black GT edition today. Sale price $23499 includes destination charges ($595). I am very happy about this.
I'll agree that these get cheaper by the end of next year but I could not wait.

lucky devil!

[Killer]

wait a year folks, save a few grand

Best advice EVAR! :)

[MS6S2K]

My MS6 is a temporary car to either an STI limited or an MS3. The STI limited is likely gonna be out of my budget, so the MS3 is something I'm looking into. I figured why wait on an MS3 and pay more now, when I can take advantage of the killer MS6 lease deal to buy time, figuring the STI limited is only gonna have 800 models produced, and I'm gonna have to pay full sticker, which I refuse to ever do.

I look forward to that day though when this lease is up, and I'll be happy if the MS3 is being sold below invoice at that time, with incentives. Mazda has a habit of overproducing vehicles beyond the demand, and there's always special deals going on on some fabulous models, unlike other car companies. This works well for me, so I hope when this lease ends there's a nice MS3 waiting to be unloaded for a deal like the MS6, because I'm all over that. :)

[seanw]

Put a down on a Black GT edition today. Sale price $23499 includes destination charges ($595). I am very happy about this.
I'll agree that these get cheaper by the end of next year but I could not wait.

Nice! Especially cause WA/OR dealers seem to have been very reluctant to discount the MS6. Okay, there's a dealer in MN who will allegedly honor S-Plan on orders vs. cars on the lot. If that doesn't work out, I'm driving to WA and getting the same deal you got. I wonder what they'll give me for my MS6?

[Da 6]

As you know this thread was closed. I will be re opened to continue the original intent. All we ask is "Do not let history repeat it's self" in this thread. The general warning is at the top of the main section here. In case anyone had questions or difficulty getting to that page I will re post it.


This message was created by Da6 and Antoine in response to recent activities in the forum. As another 6 mod, I agree with everything posted herein. With that said:

This sticky is considered a warning and is in the interest of maintaining a high quality forum for the MPS 6/Mazdaspeed 6/Mazda 6/Atenza.

Seems like there has been alot of unruly things going on in this section. ALL OF THIS POSTWHORING MUST COME TO A STOP NOW! This section is intended for information, how-to's, small talk(not limited to friendly debate), and questions pertaining to the MPS 6/Mazdaspeed 6/Mazda 6/Atenza.

There is no reason for members searching this section having to sift through useless post after useless post just to find info. There is a difference in slightly going off topic and just trying to up your postcount! There is no reason whatsoever for anyone who subscribed to a thread to be emailed just to find smiley faces!

Posts that go against the above terms will be subject to deletion and threads can and will be closed and/or moved to appropriate section of the forum as seen fit. If you aren't clear on this, click below link for a really good example of posts that don't belong in this section!

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106941 *Marked for deletion soon

Also, there is a new section floating about, the "How TO" section. If you have a How-To you feel the need to be posted, there is the place to post it! If you are asking a specific question about engine/performance or audio, please post in those sections. The "How To" section is dedicated to users posting threads/pictures on how to install things.. For instance if you documented how to install your CP-E intake, post it up in the How To Forum.

(attn)
Please DO NOT post links to other Non-Authorized Vendor sites or Online communities. Copy and paste info but please DO NOT link to it! This is an important rule that allows us to maintain quality and security for our Mazda Forums/MZSPD6.com members.

Sorry for the negativity here folks, but we want to make this the best mazda/mazda6/MS6 forum on the net!!!! (cool)

Please adhere to these set guidelines while in this section.

You may continue with your original *non hostile* conversations :)

[seanw]

As you know this thread was closed. I will be re opened to continue the original intent. All we ask is "Do not let history repeat it's self" in this thread. The general warning is at the top of the main section here. In case anyone had questions or difficulty getting to that page I will re post it.



Please adhere to these set guidelines while in this section.

You may continue with your original *non hostile* conversations :)

Hey, who are you calling a post whore? I work HARD for MY post counts. You want to see HOSTILE? Hunh?! I'll show you hostile! Calling me a post whore and expecting informative posts with no smiley faces. You want to see useless chatter? Check out this thread:

http://**********************/index.php?topic=38897.0

Now there's some uninformative post whoring with lots of smiley faces. Call me a post whore! Frig you, man!
(fu)

Please note: the preceding is an example of exactly the type of post we don't want to see anymore and will be marked for deletion soon. You all just straighten up and fly right OR you, too, will be marked for deletion.(peep)

(burp)

[Breeegz]

I am beginning to sway either way...

If I get one in 2008 it'll be a MS3

backup plan
2010 will be MS6 (if still in production)

All this is based on the fact my finantial situation will be different in 2010 after not having car payments for 2 years... who knows, perhaps by then I'll opt for the EVO XIV

[Cloke]

Thx Da 6 for the reopen. I appriciate.

[Da 6]

Thx Da 6 for the reopen. I appriciate.
Welcome. Can't wait to see what the 3 does against the Cobalt SS and maybe SRT-4. Ford and Mazda are hand in hand when it comes to NOT advertizing specialized vehicles. Vehicles don't sell themselves if the world doesn't even know they exist ;)


Hey, who are you calling a post whore? I work HARD for MY post counts. You want to see HOSTILE? Hunh?! I'll show you hostile! Calling me a post whore and expecting informative posts with no smiley faces. You want to see useless chatter? Check out this thread:

http://**********************/index.php?topic=38897.0

Now there's some uninformative post whoring with lots of smiley faces. Call me a post whore! Frig you, man!
(fu)

Please note: the preceding is an example of exactly the type of post we don't want to see anymore and will be marked for deletion soon. You all just straighten up and fly right OR you, too, will be marked for deletion.(peep)

(burp)Thats almost what the deleted thread was. Whole lot more smiley faces tho and 'lot less words...

[Karma_hunden]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will rape the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

Dont know if you are aware of it, but the MSP3 does an average of 6.1secs from 0-60mph compared to the 6.2secs of the MSP6. 5.3secs is the fastest the MSP3 is capable of, but that has to be on perfect weather conditions etc etc (The MSP6's is 5.4secs). So for those saying the AWD doesnt do any difference, well guess what, it does. One of the few sites http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119.

I have owned a 3 and currently a MSP6. Gotta admit the 3 is a fun car to drive and with the improvements of the MSP3 i must imagine it will be GREAT. But, it's still a pocket rocket that will get you little ass, since women barely know what cars run fast and which dont (heck, i think the rx-8 gets more ass than both MSPs but still). Hatches dont have a fast reputation. Mazda really foocked it up with producing jsut a hatch version. I can picture already all these ricey teenagers modding the MSP3 to sound like a fart can...going so fast they wont be able to handle the car and the toll of car accidents will increase. They dont make hatchback lamborghinis/bentleys/etc for a reason.

Always remember, this is where all hatchbacks come from -->> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Cars_008.jpg/275px-Cars_008.jpg

P.S. the srt-4 was descontinued because it is crap. Fast, but crap.

[z26]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will rape the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

Dont know if you are aware of it, but the MSP3 does an average of 6.1secs from 0-60mph compared to the 6.2secs of the MSP6. 5.3secs is the fastest the MSP3 is capable of, but that has to be on perfect weather conditions etc etc (The MSP6's is 5.4secs). So for those saying the AWD doesnt do any difference, well guess what, it does. One of the few sites http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119.

I have owned a 3 and currently a MSP6. Gotta admit the 3 is a fun car to drive and with the improvements of the MSP3 i must imagine it will be GREAT. But, it's still a pocket rocket that will get you little ass, since women barely know what cars run fast and which dont (heck, i think the rx-8 gets more ass than both MSPs but still). Hatches dont have a fast reputation. Mazda really foocked it up with producing jsut a hatch version. I can picture already all these ricey teenagers modding the MSP3 to sound like a fart can...going so fast they wont be able to handle the car and the toll of car accidents will increase. They dont make hatchback lamborghinis/bentleys/etc for a reason.

Always remember, this is where all hatchbacks come from -->> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Cars_008.jpg/275px-Cars_008.jpg

P.S. the srt-4 was descontinued because it is crap. Fast, but crap.


I have to agree with you on the age group for the MS3. I think we will see a lot of these things in ditches or wrapped around poles.

[Da 6]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will rape the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

Dont know if you are aware of it, but the MSP3 does an average of 6.1secs from 0-60mph compared to the 6.2secs of the MSP6. 5.3secs is the fastest the MSP3 is capable of, but that has to be on perfect weather conditions etc etc (The MSP6's is 5.4secs). So for those saying the AWD doesnt do any difference, well guess what, it does. One of the few sites http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119.

I have owned a 3 and currently a MSP6. Gotta admit the 3 is a fun car to drive and with the improvements of the MSP3 i must imagine it will be GREAT. But, it's still a pocket rocket that will get you little ass, since women barely know what cars run fast and which dont (heck, i think the rx-8 gets more ass than both MSPs but still). Hatches dont have a fast reputation. Mazda really foocked it up with producing jsut a hatch version. I can picture already all these ricey teenagers modding the MSP3 to sound like a fart can...going so fast they wont be able to handle the car and the toll of car accidents will increase. They dont make hatchback lamborghinis/bentleys/etc for a reason.

Always remember, this is where all hatchbacks come from -->> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Cars_008.jpg/275px-Cars_008.jpg

P.S. the srt-4 was descontinued because it is crap. Fast, but crap.SRT-4 is comming back again at 300 hp


I have to agree with you on the age group for the MS3. I think we will see a lot of these things in ditches or wrapped around poles.Yep SRT-4's ended up like that causing insurance to skyrocket past RX-8 into evo range... Also dodge dealers tried to rape you with the "Hi Perfomance Vehicle" markups.

[seanw]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will rape the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

....
Always remember, this is where all hatchbacks come from -->> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/Cars_008.jpg/275px-Cars_008.jpg

P.S. the srt-4 was descontinued because it is crap. Fast, but crap.

I disagree on the roll-on. That is where the MS3 will have the advantage due to it's 12 lbs/hp ratio vs. the MS6's 13 lbs/hp ratio. I also disagree on the origin of the hatchback. I'd say it goes back as least as far as the AMC Pacer.
http://www.partaj.cz/imgs/ameriky/AMC/pacer/77amc_06_pacer.jpg

[Karma_hunden]

I disagree on the roll-on. That is where the MS3 will have the advantage due to it's 12 lbs/hp ratio vs. the MS6's 13 lbs/hp ratio. I also disagree on the origin of the hatchback. I'd say it goes back as least as far as the AMC Pacer.
http://www.partaj.cz/imgs/ameriky/AMC/pacer/77amc_06_pacer.jpg

well, the MSP3 has a better ratio but the AWD system will always have an advantage over the FWD (when equal ratio)...in this case the MSP6's ratio isnt too far away from the 3's, so the advantage isnt that much ratio-wise...the AWD as proven in the 0-60 time of both cars greatly affects the 6 which is able to keep pace with the small counterpart that runs barely 0.1sec faster. The 6 has a bigger chance of winning the roll-on on a short term race...the 3 will be all about catching up, and if given more than 10secs might just do so and pass the 6.

However, based on tests, it has being said that there is this feeling that the MSP3's FWD engine can barely stand the power it has being given and it was probably designed to its limits. So, regardless whether it is the same engine as the 6 but with different ECU restrictions, trying to push more hp's/torque will probably have some bad consequences in the future because it is FWD. So ricers/tuners beware. Have the feeling there will be a lot of CEL threads in the M3 forum.

btw, the hatchback joke I made it up,that wagon aint the REAL origin of the hatchback LOL, I just typed hatchback on google images and grabbed the gayest pic it popped up. Btw, how come they dont call them wagons anymore? afraid of the truth? I dont think yall hatchbackers can handle the truth!! :)

[Da 6]

Wagon is not a "Manly image" to most. If the magnum was introduced as a station wagon it wouldn't have sold like it did. Dodge didn't even want the SRT-4 to be considered a neon in any way whatsoever. Hell out of the states neons were 2.0 FX. The mazda 6 hatch looks more sedan like where the 3 kinda doesn't. I would take the 6 over the 3 not from a handeling or acceleration point but the fact I'm not a hatch person.

[spike blue]

ms3 but igot the cx-7 LOL i love it!! Pretty fast too!! The ms6 its awesome but i love the ms3!!

[DSpec]

they both suck. MS6 (which is what I own) is too heavy and too comfortable and only mature people drive them.

MS3 sucks because it is not AWD and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)

Seriously, this debate and arguing is ridiculous and you can certainly count on me to take jabs at all threads like this...

[ONRAILS]

lol... whats wrong with "mature" people? The bmw m3 is also "too heavy and too comfortable".

Anyways, yes... ridiculous.


they both suck. MS6 (which is what I own) is too heavy and too comfortable and only mature people drive them.

MS3 sucks because it is not AWD and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)

Seriously, this debate and arguing is ridiculous and you can certainly count on me to take jabs at all threads like this...

[Karma_hunden]

correction. heavy and fast :)

[Raynman]

...and only you young whippersnappers are gonna buy them and put big cans on the back...(peep) (first) (enguard)


Even bigger than stock?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/raynman/mazdaspeed%203/DSC04728Medium.jpg

[Breeegz]

I'll take either

[Rotary_Powered]

Msp & Msm Ftw!!!

[MS6S2K]

You want a manly car that looks bulky and tough? Buy a MSP6. AWD, heavier but will rape the FWD MSP3 on a 45mph+ roll-on ANY DAY. Not to mention the launch..after that its all about catching up for the feather weight MSP3.

Dont know if you are aware of it, but the MSP3 does an average of 6.1secs from 0-60mph compared to the 6.2secs of the MSP6. 5.3secs is the fastest the MSP3 is capable of, but that has to be on perfect weather conditions etc etc (The MSP6's is 5.4secs). So for those saying the AWD doesnt do any difference, well guess what, it does. One of the few sites http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119.


I'll have to respectfully disagree, and I'm an MS6 owner. You are talking about a lot less weight in the MS3, essentially the same power, and possibly less drivetrain loss (equal to more whp). Edmunds tests on each (14.3 at 95.7mph for the MS6) vs 14.1 at 100.1 mph on MS3), tells me that the MS3 will walk the Speed 6 from a roll. I enjoy my 6, but it feels so heavy and slow to me, but I admit that's because I traded in an 04 STI for one, and I'm still adapting to the downgrade in performance. No doubt in my mind that the Speed 3 will be faster from a roll, and outperform the Speed 6 in nearly every aspect. It's also not as luxurious or good looking as the MS6, so it's gonna be a tough call for me when it's time to unload my Speed 6.

[Karma_hunden]

well, the reason why its heavy is cuz of the AWD. Regardless whether the msp3 has a better whp/torque ratio, the awd system should help the msp6 squeeze those on a roll-on punch. But as I said, it will take the msp3 about 5-10 seconds to catch up and eventually pass the msp6. Same on a stop.

Go to streetfire.net and you will see the AWD power the msp6 has...even when the msp6 loses, most of the times he wins the launch...except in a race with the new grand cherokee SRT-8 (0-60mph= 4.9secs)...boy was that embarassing/surprising.

[seanw]

well, the reason why its heavy is cuz of the AWD. Regardless whether the msp3 has a better whp/torque ratio, the awd system should help the msp6 squeeze those on a roll-on punch. But as I said, it will take the msp3 about 5-10 seconds to catch up and eventually pass the msp6. Same on a stop.

Go to streetfire.net and you will see the AWD power the msp6 has...even when the msp6 loses, most of the times he wins the launch...except in a race with the new grand cherokee SRT-8 (0-60mph= 4.9secs)...boy was that embarassing/surprising.

No one's doubting the AWD launch. But you mentioned the roll-on. 12 vs. 13 lbs/hp is sigificant and I don't think there's a lot of AWD action happening after 20-30 mph in the MS6. The C&D review of the MS3 should have a chart showing drag strip acceleration times time in 10 mph intervals. We should be able to get an initial sense of it's roll-on power.

[shark77]

No one's doubting the AWD launch. But you mentioned the roll-on. 12 vs. 13 lbs/hp is sigificant and I don't think there's a lot of AWD action happening after 20-30 mph in the MS6. The C&D review of the MS3 should have a chart showing drag strip acceleration times time in 10 mph intervals. We should be able to get an initial sense of it's roll-on power.

Here are Motortrend results side-by-side for the MS6 and the MS3...

-----------------MS6---------------MS3--------Gap------Gap per 10mph
0-30-------------1.7----------------2.1---------0.4---------0.4
40---------------2.9----------------3.3---------0.4---------0.0
50---------------4.0----------------4.3---------0.3---------(0.1)
60---------------5.8----------------6.0---------0.2---------(0.1)
70---------------7.5----------------7.3---------(0.2)-------(0.4)
80---------------9.9----------------9.5---------(0.4)-------(0.2)
90---------------12.5---------------11.5--------(1.0)-------(0.6)
100--------------16.0---------------14.5--------(1.5)-------(0.5)


Passing 45-65----3.2----------------2.8

1/4 Mile----------14.3@96.0---------14.3@99.4

So what does the data tell us?

Well from a stop with the speed perspective of the MS6, this is how it would look.
The MS6 obviously jumps out into the lead. Visually this would look like about a 15-17ft advantage at 30mph.

From 30-40mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~20ft
From 40-50mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~23ft
From 50-60mph the MS6 distance would grow to ~24ft

After 65mph the MS3 would begin eating up the ~24ft advantage of the MS6.
By 80mph the MS3 would be ~17ft behind the MS6
At 90mph the MS3 would be ~7ft behind the nose of the MS6
At 100mph the MS3 would be ~15ft ahead of the MS6 and moving off into the distance.

From a rolling start, anything from 30mph on up the MS3 is going to pull on the MS6.

A good example is the 45-65mph passing number. The MS3 reaches 65mph 0.4sec quicker than the MS6. Each 0.1 sec the MS3 is able to accelerate at 0.89mph faster than the MS6 this compounded over 0.4sec translates into 13ft.

So from 45-65mph roll the MS6 would be 13ft behind the MS3 when the MS3 speedo reads 65mph.

[Karma_hunden]

wow. turns out i was wrong. good info shark!

I think the reason why the msp3 starts to eat up the msp6 on the 90's is because of the low torque at high rpms the msp6 has due to its dying boost. Solution to high rpm dying boost? Front mount intercooler. Results? Get that second back that the msp3 took and add a few more infront of it. :D

[Da 6]

This is the perfect example of civil debates :) Thanx for the side-by-side info!

[jaydrouin]

I wasn't for sure where to post this so I'll just do it here.

When the release of these most anticipated vehicles happens, I am going to be torn. I see the hatch style and I'm starting to like it a lot, but what I've seen about the MS6 is also mind boggling. I know that with the MS6 they kept the 4 cyl for better performance/handling instead of doing the v6 turbo. I would think though that the MS3 would be lighter, so it could go faster especially with AWD. If you guys could. Let me know what you think about these 2 up coming vehicles and which you all think would out perform the other.

The dealership knows that I'm looking at getting the MS6 and its cost show about $29,000 or so. I think I gave the sales guy a run for his money b/c he was asking me questions about it.

Comments?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/GLantern/MS3/MAZDASPEED3_front34_2.jpg
OR
http://www.triplezoom.com/news/uploads/ms6_3.jpg