Move MAF or Recirc 100%?

[HeHateMe]

I hate stalling. I dont mind turkey. What should i do?

[CasopoliS]

I hate stalling. I dont mind turkey. What should i do?

recirc. venting sucks for the most part.

[HeHateMe]

Do you think i need a full BPV, or can i use my Dual port, but only make it recirc?

[CasopoliS]

Do you think i need a full BPV, or can i use my Dual port, but only make it recirc?

up to you. I don't know anything about those valves.

[HeHateMe]

NO MORE STALLING!!!!!!! (shocked) (butthump) (drinks) (band2) (omg) (boobs) (nana)

I just made it 100% recirc, and NO STALLING!! The Turkey is crazy too, My brother thought my tires were breaking loose when i drove away from his house. I'm Thrilled now i can enjoy it, like i did before the FMIC! Thanks guys for the advice.

[ChopstickHero]

nice.... 100% recirc is easier and definitely no stalling. are you using the stock bpv or an upgrade bpv?

[Dexter]

do the right thing, talk to your kids about drug and alcohol abuse.

[Ryoga28]

Is dexter a bot? (j/k)

[TX Speed Demon]

Just remember that turkey you don't mind hearing is compressor surge that will eventually effect your turbo. If you are recirculating you should be able to adjust your BOV (assumign you have an aftermarket one since you were venting) loose enough to prevent any turkey.

[HeHateMe]

i'm using a turbosmart dual port BOV. I guess i will try to make it looser, so the turkey will be less. But how can it be compressor surge, when it happens when i'm not under boost. Answer me that?

[Dexter]

you cant be blowing anything off if youre not in boost, WTF ASS

[HeHateMe]

Have you seen the picture of it?!? ITS A BOV, that you take the horn side off, and put a plate over it. Then all you have is the port on the other side, recircing back into the intake. You can make it vent totally, or vent and recirc, or full recirc. But its a BOV captian technical, SUCK IT DRY!

[ChopstickHero]

Have you seen the picture of it?!? ITS A BOV, that you take the horn side off, and put a plate over it. Then all you have is the port on the other side, recircing back into the intake. You can make it vent totally, or vent and recirc, or full recirc. But its a BOV captian technical, SUCK IT DRY!

dexter is right, you don't blow off when you are in vacuum... you only blow off when you are boosting.

[HeHateMe]

so why is there louder turkey when i boost?

[gboromsp]

B/c the turbo starts building boost almost immediately. I'm guessing your turkey is much louder when in boost? The turbo is still spinning, its not like the compressor wheel just sits still until your boost guage shows you being in boost.



i'm using a turbosmart dual port BOV. I guess i will try to make it looser, so the turkey will be less. But how can it be compressor surge, when it happens when i'm not under boost. Answer me that?

[HeHateMe]

So is this a bad setup? I thought copying the stock setup would be the best. If this turkey is slowly causing issues to the turbo, then why are so many running this way?

[TX Speed Demon]

B/c the turbo starts building boost almost immediately. I'm guessing your turkey is much louder when in boost? The turbo is still spinning, its not like the compressor wheel just sits still until your boost guage shows you being in boost.


Exactly right. My BOV is fully venting. I only get turkey when NOT IN BOOST. If I am boosting and let off the gas, the change in vac pressure is enough to open the valve and release the air, thus no turkey.


When not under boost (but with the vac pressure between 10-0) the vac pressure is not strong enough to open the valve and release any air. The compressor wheel is still spinning even though I'm off the gas and that air still needs somewhere to go. If the valve doesn't open it goes backward. It's still air needing somewhere to go, it's just less air than when the car is in boost.

In your case (HeHateMe), the turkey is louder when boosting cause there is more air trying to force it's way through the same hole.

If you are running an aftermarket dual valve you probably have the same issues as me. It's very difficult to tune the BOV perfectly so it ALWAYS opens and closes at the perfect time. Just try to find the best compramise. I figure it's probably better to set the valve a little loose and get compressor surge at no or very little boost levels, than to set it too tight and get surge at high boost levels.

[CasopoliS]

Very good TX and others. This is exactly correct. Two valves is better than a dual valve IMO.
Right now I have BoostSciences BPV on hot pipe recirculating into intake, and I have the HKS SSQV on the cold pipe venting to atmosphere. Car runs great. I have the HKS loose enough to where changes in pressure cause it to open, even if in VAC. So if I rev it from 10vac to 1 vac then let off the gas I will hear the HKS release air quietly. This way I get NO turkey. You have to find the right point, because if you vent too much you will start to get stalling issues.

then again some people like turk but my car runs like hell with it.

[jeffmsp]

has anyone here ever had a problem related to the stock BPV cauing compressor surge eventually leading to a blown turbo? I think its fine, even stock the surge is there, its not like callaway didnt notice it, i think they just realized that it does so little harm so why bother putting in a more expensive unit.

[MOG BURKE]

So Could U Just Bipass An After Market Blow Off Vavle? If It's Been Installed Already? Tighten It Up And Diconnect The Vacum? U Know, Kind Of Like Being Stock But With Hard Pipes.

[ChopstickHero]

So Could U Just Bipass An After Market Blow Off Vavle? If It's Been Installed Already? Tighten It Up And Diconnect The Vacum? U Know, Kind Of Like Being Stock But With Hard Pipes.

yes, it's possible to recirculate an aftermarket blow off valve. but you wouldn't disconnect the vacuum as you would need that so the bov can sense when there is a change. you would need to run a house from the bov back to somewhere along the intake tract.

[tiwing]

a few things I've learned in my travels so far: You can get compressor surge when not in boost. the reason is that the turbo is still spinning inside the housing at the speed of the exhaust whether or not it's being used to create boost. If you are at 5000 rpm you're not necessarily in boost all the time. Slam the throttle closed, the airflow has no place to go, but the compressor wheel is still trying to spin. (edit: thus the pressure is higher on the turbo side of the throttle body than in the intake manifold, causing the vacuum to the BOV to pull the piston open /edit) Compressor surge is the sound you get when the impellor blades are trying to spin against a non-moving air mass. That's why you can also still blow off when not in boost.

If you have valves on both hot and cold pipes, in essence you are are venting your entire intake system so that you MAY experience a bigger lag with our tiny turbo's before you're back into boost - especially on a fast gear change you might notice the lag.

Finally, after running the turbosmart dual port for about 1.5 years, I've had virtually NO turkey and a nice normal pssht, and I've stalled maybe 10 times in that time. I found when trying to run the dual port full recirc that the plate that comes to block off the venting part is a hair too thin, and that when fully attached it dents in the piston chamber causing the piston to jam. I had this happen on 2 separate valves, both were covered by warranty. If the piston is jamming, you will of course get crazy turkey. My dual port is located on the cold pipe about 10" from the throttle body.

[HeHateMe]

When you mentioned that the piston on the DOV would jam, would that cause it to stay stuck open or closed? I don't think that mine is jamming cuz i have it set on the softest setting, and and i know that its working. I actually feel that air coming back out my Short ram intake, when its recircing. Its hard for me to belive that its still surge that i'm hearing! It seems like the only true way to get rid of the turkey, is to move the maf, and vent. All i know is i'm not stalling, and the "turkey" freaks the crap out of people. Which i think is funny.

[Hypnotized]

I have the MAF relocated with a Greddy types s venting. I have had no stalling issues ever. The car runs perfect without the turkey. The turkey has been dead for awhile now. I alos used to have a forge BOV on the hot pipe and didnt have the turkey either. Just my 2 cents.

[tiwing]

in my case it stayed closed - because the ends of the little bolts actually acted like a clamp holding the piston closed. I think if it was jammed open you'd know because your turbo would spool like mad and you wouldn't be building too much boost - all the air would either be recirculating or venting and not making it to the throttle body.

Well all I can say is that my turkey is virtually dead - I still occasionally get it when either not under boost or very very low boost and partial throttle lift off, where the pressure difference between the IM and cold pipe isn't enough to open the valve. Bottom line is mine works. Here's a pic of my engine bay so you can compare your setup. Good luck with killing your turkey!!

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/6783/enginebay010500092ek.th.jpg (http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=enginebay010500092ek.jpg)

[edit: I just thought of something else - when i installed my hardpipes I had my vacuum source for the wastegate changed to the hot pipe right after the turbo. That means I have a dedicated vac source for the BOV from the intake manifold. When I tried to run both the wastegate and this BOV off the same intake manifold vac line I had HUGE turkey come back. the turbosmart dual port needs a lot of vacuum to work properly, so maybe that could be at least part of your problem. If you're wondering the reason I changed to running the wastegate vac source off the hot pipe was to provide more immediate response to the wastegate to totally prevent boost spikes - and it allows the boost controller a more immediate vac/pressure source to work from so it responds more quickly as well. /edit]


When you mentioned that the piston on the DOV would jam, would that cause it to stay stuck open or closed? I don't think that mine is jamming cuz i have it set on the softest setting, and and i know that its working. I actually feel that air coming back out my Short ram intake, when its recircing. Its hard for me to belive that its still surge that i'm hearing! It seems like the only true way to get rid of the turkey, is to move the maf, and vent. All i know is i'm not stalling, and the "turkey" freaks the crap out of people. Which i think is funny.

[HeHateMe]

Ok, I will try to give the BOV a dedicated Vac source. As of now i'm hooked into the line that went to the stock BPV. I think this is the line that goes to the wastegate that you were talking about. So i will try that to see if that helps. Thanks for the Info!!

[exNeon]

sounds ideal

[CasopoliS]

lol you are bumpin all sorts of old threads I am subscribed too.

[vxfilmer1000]

Move the MAF

One of the best mods I have ever done to my MSP.

[Run for Cover]

any hows on moving the maf?

[exNeon]

yeah there are just search for maf relocation or maf relocate, should come up with a bunch. some say that gas milage goes down, but turkey is killed and stalling as well.......i would be more interested in running a 2 bpv setup.
if anyone knows if this kills the turkey and can confirm no stalling, that would be very helpful.

[PlatinumMSP]

relocate the maf and vent to atmosphere, and be straight up gangster

[Bakum]

yeah there are just search for maf relocation or maf relocate, should come up with a bunch. some say that gas milage goes down, but turkey is killed and stalling as well.......i would be more interested in running a 2 bpv setup.
if anyone knows if this kills the turkey and can confirm no stalling, that would be very helpful.

After reading many post like this, I beleive the Dual Setup is best because it removes turkey and stalling. I Haven't done my dual setup yet, but everybody seems to have the same results.

[tallrd]

ditto on relocating your maf. No stalling and bypasses the problem all together.

[Bakum]

Well, I got my dual setup on, but the HKS on the Cold Pipe doesn't seem to be working. I have it setup like this:

I have the Stock BPV Recirc to the Intake, and the HKS Welded to a Aluminum Cold pipe. I can hear the Stock BPV recirc. but it seems as though the HKS is doing nothing. Any Suggestions.

Here's some pics.

[VA03Speed]

So I woudl like to know if the dual bov setup or the relocation of the maf is the safiest but best way to go?

[speedcicle]

I am running the maf relocation and a greddy rs. The maf relocation smoothed the entire car out and the bov sounds awesome.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9269/msp2eb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[otmsp]

I`m recirculating a greedy s-type after venting for 2 years.Turkey is loud as hell and i love it! . VIVA EL TURKEY.

[tallrd]

Well, I got my dual setup on, but the HKS on the Cold Pipe doesn't seem to be working. I have it setup like this:

I have the Stock BPV Recirc to the Intake, and the HKS Welded to a Aluminum Cold pipe. I can hear the Stock BPV recirc. but it seems as though the HKS is doing nothing. Any Suggestions.

Here's some pics.

I think your problem is your vacuum source for both the HKs and the stock bpv.

I use the stock vac source for the stock BPV for just that: the stock bpv. But i have dedicated vac source off my brake booster line for the (greddy) bov on the cold pipe. Mine works awesome and runs super smooth with a massive "pffoooshh" from the greddy under heavy throttle.

I don't think you have enought vacuum for both valves off (what appears to be) the source for you stock bpv.

Am I on to something spinning my wheels?

[Brian MP5T]

MOVE The MAF.

[Bakum]

It's working now. I know my Vaccum source is overloaded, but I haven't ordered a Brake Booster kit yet, so its gonna stay that way. There was definatly something wrong with it though because it was stuck closed. I took off the vaccum hoses and replaced them with new ones cause i think there was a small leak im thinking. Sounds great now. I love it. thanks for the input tho.

[tallrd]

It's working now. I know my Vaccum source is overloaded, but I haven't ordered a Brake Booster kit yet, so its gonna stay that way. There was definatly something wrong with it though because it was stuck closed. I took off the vaccum hoses and replaced them with new ones cause i think there was a small leak im thinking. Sounds great now. I love it. thanks for the input tho.

well, at least I can feel reassured that it was indeed the vacuum source. Glad you were able to fix it.

[Bakum]

I am going to make my vaccum more efficient soon, but haven't had the time to yet. I have the stock bpv, hks, and a boost guage, all on one source "T'd" off all over the place. Once I get the Brake Booster line Setup, I'll set the HKS to BB and keep the Stock BPV and Boost Gauge on the same line.

[speedcicle]

I`m recirculating a greedy s-type after venting for 2 years.Turkey is loud as hell and i love it! . VIVA EL TURKEY.
Turkey is bad.........

[Kansei]

*subscribes* so that I remember to use a dedicated vac source for my BOV

[MSP_4_CODY]

move that maf!!! i did i love it!

[Alejo_NIN]

move the holy maf

recir sucks ass...turkey is ghey

[Kansei]

move the holy maf

recir sucks ass...turkey is ghey

there's no issue at all with the MAF being in the charge pipe.. like longevity or something? I don't see why mazda wouldn't have put it their themselves if there wasn't a downside.

[snowblazin]

there's no issue at all with the MAF being in the charge pipe.. like longevity or something? I don't see why mazda wouldn't have put it their themselves if there wasn't a downside.
Nope. Best thing I did while I had the turbo. Car never stalled again or had any idling problems. Seems Mazda likes to do everything the hard way.

[Brian MP5T]

there's no issue at all with the MAF being in the charge pipe.. like longevity or something? I don't see why Mazda wouldn't have put it their themselves if there wasn't a downside.

It was not designed to read charge air.

It is calibrated to read air at ambient pressure. It does this by calculating flow based on the speed of the air. It knows how big the hole is and can calculate how many CF/M the car in ingesting. There is no way for a MAF to see the difference between Boosted Charge or Normal Charge so basically when there is pressure in the MAF, more air is getting in than it can see.

The car will run a bit leaner under boost, which under most conditions so a positive thing simply because the car runs very rich to begin with.

MAP Sensors are the best way to calculate Air

[Kansei]

Good point. I always forget that pressurized means more air in the same space. I was just worried about the rush of pressurized air past the delicate little MAF sensor causing a problem.

[Yellow MSP]

It was not designed to read charge air.

It is calibrated to read air at ambient pressure. It does this by calculating flow based on the speed of the air. It knows how big the hole is and can calculate how many CF/M the car in ingesting. There is no way for a MAF to see the difference between Boosted Charge or Normal Charge so basically when there is pressure in the MAF, more air is getting in than it can see.

The car will run a bit leaner under boost, which under most conditions so a positive thing simply because the car runs very rich to begin with.

MAP Sensors are the best way to calculate Air

I use a GM MAS on my GSX which sees 23 PSI daily and the only problem I have ever had with it was when water got into my intercooler. I'm not 100% sure of how it works (calculates air) but I imagine it has to be very close to the same design of the MSP. And the one I use came off an N/A vehicle as well. So basically, if it can handle 20+ psi accurately, I see no reason why the MSP MAS can't read 6-12 PSI with good accuracy.

I agree that MAP sensors are definitely the way to go. I wish I could afford AEM for my vehicles.

Finally, I just got my stock MSP a month ago, and what do you know, the MAS is sh*tting the bed. Luckily the dealer is covering the cost of a new one.