16G turbo

[sweetlou69]

ok my friend has a 2g talon and has the t25 turbo in his..he said the 16G turbo is a direct placement on his.. does this mean i can drop a 16G on my MSP with little or no modifications? cuz if so hes gonna cut it loose for like 250$..id def say its worth it if it would work ok

[sickspeed94]

it's been discussed before i beloieve... something about the 16G not being ball bearing and not being able to produce any good numbers in the proper power bands on our MSP's, personally i love our GT25R (right)? i wouldn't replace it with a DSM turbo, only turbo i'd go with is the slighly bigger GT28RS, and that's expensive.

[Captain KRM P5]

lol turfburn uses a 16G turbo and puts down over 260 whp at 13 psi

[sickspeed94]

lol turfburn uses a 16G turbo and puts down over 260 whp at 13 psi

then i stand corrected

[Nightmare]

DSM turbos are the way to be, im going 16g after my exhaust and afc :D

[Notorious]

btw we have a t25R :)

[Mallard]

My friends DSM put down over 300whp with a 16G when it was still a 2.0L. No reason it can't do the same on any other engine.

Although the T25R will be more then adequate for your needs unless you're building a forged bottom end. And to be honest I'm not sure the 16G is a direct swap for the 2g DSM's. The first gen used a 14B and the 16G is a direct swap. But the 2nd gens used a T-25 and I'm not sure the flanges are the same. I think most 2g DSM's swap to a T-28. TurfBurn's car has an old Spool (?) turbo kit on it that had the correct flange for the 16G.

I'm sure someone on here know's more about 2g DSM's then me and can confirm or disprove what I said above. I know more tech on the 1g then 2.

EDIT TO ADD: After a quick google search it looks like the 16G may be a direct swap on the 2g's. My statement above may be incorrect.

[mp3moose]

Terry (spool) used to offer 16g's. Obivously why turfburn does as well.

[sweetlou69]

so this 16g mite work?

[low_psi]

no. the 16G, 14b, 18G, 19C etc etc are all Mistu turbos. They have different flanges than Garrett turbos. You will need alot of work to use a Mitsu turbo(ie, competely custom). They ARE NOT a direct swap.

I'd like to run an EVO3 16G, but the fabrication required is too time consuming.

[Nightmare]

Fabrication?

your making a set of flanges, chunk of steel cut, drill press the bolt pattern, and weld it on. no effort.

no worse than buying a gt28, you still need flanges for that.

[yashooa]

btw we have a t25R :)
NO NO NO this is wrong and has been beaten to death!
Our turbo is eactly the same as a GT25R with a stronger housing due to the stricter OEM requirements.
It is dual ball bearing and .80.

"First off, your MSP is equipped with GT2554R (aka GT25R)."
This is cut from one of the emails that Peepsalot received.

More info our GT series versus the older "t" type.




GT vs. T - What's the Difference?






Turbocharger technology has advanced during the recent years, and at the forefront of that wave has been Garrett, leading the charge of modernization at the OEM level. One notable advance at the OEM's has been the shift from the traditional T-turbocharger to modern GT technology. Older 'T' products served as a workhouse for the aftermarket for many years, but now Garrett GT will revolutionize turbocharger performance and enable the reduction of turbo lag to virtually undetectable levels.

The GT Evolution

In the 1990's Garrett engineers developed a radically new efficient turbocharger baptizing it 'New Garrett Technology' aka the 'NGT' turbo. Over time the term was shortened to 'GT' and is now used to specifically describe the aerodynamically advanced Garrett turbochargers that cause the turbo to spool up to boost and accelerate your vehicle quicker than ever.

WHY IS GARRETT GT BETTER THAN T PRODUCT?

Product Simplification - T product typically contained 54 components, compare this with GT technology which has drastically reduced the number of components by more than 45% to average of 29! Reducing the number of individual parts drastically diminishes the opportunity for failure, thus resulting in smoother motoring.

Journal Bearing - The bearing system in the GT turbocharger allows for improved shaft stability and less drag throughout the speed range. In fact, the GT shaft motion has decreased by 20%, which greatly improves the durability of the bearing system.

Thrust Bearings - The new GT turbochargers have an increased load bearing capacity of up to 35%. This provides greater resistance to thrust bearing failure, especially when the combination of an oversized compressor wheel to turbine wheel is used.

Improved Aerodynamics - The wheels used on the GT turbochargers increase the efficiency of the turbocharger system. Increased efficiency allows improved engine performance in each application.

Wheel Trims - The GT range has several more wheel trims that the T range, enabling a more accurate match of turbocharger to engine that will in turn result in optimum performance.

Piston Rings - The piston rings on the GT range are made from M2 tool steel. This material can withstand higher temperatures than traditional T range piston rings, making the GT product more appropriate for today's modern engines

<CODE>Information Provided By: Garrett Performance Products</CODE>
<CODE>http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/images/gt25rcompress.gif</CODE>

[low_psi]

Fabrication?

your making a set of flanges, chunk of steel cut, drill press the bolt pattern, and weld it on. no effort.

no worse than buying a gt28, you still need flanges for that.

what. why would I make a custom manifold with a mitsu footplate, when the msp manifold is a t2 footplate? its money and time. plus the orientation of mistu and garrett turbos is different. making the flanges would be the least of your concerns if you wanted to switch. cutting off the t2 flange and welding a mitsu flange to the stock manifold is a horrible idea. it doesn't even begin to address how you'll get air/gas in and out of the turbine.

the original question was "does this mean i can drop a 16G on my MSP with little or no modifications?". its a simple no. too much has to change.

[txrxs]

ok my friend has a 2g talon and has the t25 turbo in his..he said the 16G turbo is a direct placement on his.. does this mean i can drop a 16G on my MSP with little or no modifications? cuz if so hes gonna cut it loose for like 250$..id def say its worth it if it would work ok

Didn't you have another thread asking about a GT28RS? What is wrong with the stock turbo? You turn the boost up to 15psi and tell me that's not enough. But more than that, how long do you expect your engine to last? A week, a month? Do the steps then upgrade the turbo, the GT25R can be a very ample with supporting mods.

[BOOSTR]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock turbo. Its more than adequate for our appplication and works well in combination with other mods.

[jeffmsp]

maybe he wants to build the motor. I went for a drive in a 12 second awd eclipse with a 16G, pulls hard and since the FS has higher compression then the 4G63 you wil get more HP per psi.with a set of rods and tuning your laughing at the T25R.

[sweetlou69]

exactly jeffmsp.. im lookin to do the motor over and upgrade the turbo..i was lookin at the gt28rs,but then my friend has a 16g for 300$ so i figured if it works y the hell not for 300$.. its def a nicer turbo than stock so y not

[Nightmare]

what. why would I make a custom manifold with a mitsu footplate, when the msp manifold is a t2 footplate? its money and time. plus the orientation of mistu and garrett turbos is different. making the flanges would be the least of your concerns if you wanted to switch. cutting off the t2 flange and welding a mitsu flange to the stock manifold is a horrible idea. it doesn't even begin to address how you'll get air/gas in and out of the turbine.

the original question was "does this mean i can drop a 16G on my MSP with little or no modifications?". its a simple no. too much has to change.


why not just weld a t2 foot plate on the 16g? DSM's arent new to ghetto, they created ghetto.
as far as air in and out, why not position the new plate in the same direction of the stock t25? then you'd solve positioning. what about the S pipe.. well, you'd have to custom fab one of those, not expensive, but time consuming. and if you have a diffrent inlet and output size on the 16g from the t25, given you have a fmic, you can step down with a silicone connector for a few bucks from Vibrant. because chances are, your pipe is going to be smaller.


I'm going to give it a go.

[apocman]

Might not be laughing as much as you think if you run across somebody with an T25R rebuilt with the GT28R guts and had the Exhaust manifold, turbo, and S&J pipes all ported and polished to go along with it for $580 by MPNick...

You would be suprised what our little turbos can do after a little custom work luvin...



maybe he wants to build the motor. I went for a drive in a 12 second awd eclipse with a 16G, pulls hard and since the FS has higher compression then the 4G63 you wil get more HP per psi.with a set of rods and tuning your laughing at the T25R.

[apocman]

define nicer???? how is an older sleeve bearing turbo nicer than a ball bearing???? and what is the spool time for your setup???? and why not pay $580 and have stocker upgraded along witha few other parts...




exactly jeffmsp.. im lookin to do the motor over and upgrade the turbo..i was lookin at the gt28rs,but then my friend has a 16g for 300$ so i figured if it works y the hell not for 300$.. its def a nicer turbo than stock so y not

[sweetlou69]

y what can be done for 580$??

[apocman]

Porting and Polishing of the following items:

Exhaust manifold
S&J eahaust pipes
Turbo housing

and then he sticks in the GT28R guts

makes a very nice setup, you retain quick spool time and gain an increase in the amount of psi you can run and an increase of hp generated per psi...

[txrxs]

that turbo will assrape your 16G in the ass.

[Mallard]

that turbo will assrape your 16G in the ass.
How do you figure? What's kind of whp are people putting out with MPINick's moded turbo? 320 whp? I think it would be comparable to a 16G but it won't "assrape" it. My friend is putting out about 350 All-Wheel HP on his EVOIII 16G.

[sweetlou69]

nice sounds like its worht it.. what kind of HP do you gain out of that process? and how long would this take?

[yashooa]

How do you figure? What's kind of whp are people putting out with MPINick's moded turbo? 320 whp? I think it would be comparable to a 16G but it won't "assrape" it. My friend is putting out about 350 All-Wheel HP on his EVOIII 16G.
Joep put down over 270WHP over two years ago with the stock turbo, stock airbox, stock smic, and a 3'' crush bend exhaust.
He ran some 116 octane gas and was at 18PSI.
Now I am not attempting that but just ask Black ZOOM ZOOM how much he liked his MPNICK modified stock turbo. There is plenty of "useable" smooth WHP to be made with a very reliable, dual ballbearing GT series turbo every MSP owner allready possesses.

[Mallard]

There is plenty of "useable" smooth WHP to be made with a very reliable, dual ballbearing GT series turbo every MSP owner allready possesses.

I totally agree with that. I was merely disputing the claim that the modified stock turbo would "assrape" a 16G. In fact, I think they would be fairly comparable.

[txrxs]

it was a statement out of annoyance to this thread, no it wouldnt assrape a 16G. They are comparable hp wise, but i think a worked GT25R would spool a little faster.

[Mallard]

it was a statement out of annoyance to this thread, no it wouldnt assrape a 16G. They are comparable hp wise, but i think a worked GT25R would spool a little faster.
Actually he builds 21psi before I can build 7.

[Nightmare]

i still stand by the 16g as a nice cheap upgrade from stock.


i have a 14b here im going to use as a mock up for the 16g.

[Mallard]

http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/2ndgensuperturbos.htm

They sell 16G's that bolt on to the stock 2nd gen manifold that originally had a T-25. Other companies sell bolt on 16G kits for the 2nd gens too. If the DSM T-25 flange is the same as ours it won't be a hard swap.

[low_psi]

If the DSM T-25 flange is the same as ours it won't be a hard swap.
its not!!
-sorry, i already covered this in the first page or two.

[apocman]

Remember your quoting HP ratings from his Stage 1 upgrade for our turbos, he has a stage 2 he sells as well!!!!

not that means ones better than the other. I just feel use what you got then go to something else if need be...



How do you figure? What's kind of whp are people putting out with MPINick's moded turbo? 320 whp? I think it would be comparable to a 16G but it won't "assrape" it. My friend is putting out about 350 All-Wheel HP on his EVOIII 16G.

[Mallard]

Again, I totally agree with that. I'm not telling anyone that the 16G is better. I've said three times now that I had problem with someone saying the modified stock turbo would assrape a 16G. I also stated early in this thread that I thought the stock turbo was good enough for anything he wanted to do and there's no point upgrading.

What are the HP claims with GT25R Stage 2?

[apocman]

I can understand where you are coming from, no problem :)

To tell you the truth I do not know what the WHP claims are for the stage 2 MPNick stock turbo upgrade. I just know black zoom zoom talked about it and the fact they have been running the stage 1 version and that none of them even tapped the full potential of the stage 1 upgrade...

I would like to know what would be the max potential for both... I hope to find out soon since I should be recieving two MPNick stage one upgrades today!!!

(band)




Again, I totally agree with that. I'm not telling anyone that the 16G is better. I've said three times now that I had problem with someone saying the modified stock turbo would assrape a 16G. I also stated early in this thread that I thought the stock turbo was good enough for anything he wanted to do and there's no point upgrading.

What are the HP claims with GT25R Stage 2?