water temp gauge sensor placing.

[FL_PR5]

well my water temp gauge has come in and i am waiting on my air/fuel from a fellow forum user. well i got this in and i went out to my car and was looking for the correct placement. but i noticed our stock one has a sensor on it that i cant correct tap into. so i could use some advice on it. so here's the setup:

i have to get put my new one in but the existing one has sensor wires already on it. but i have to put a 18 wire gauge on my new sensor to link my gauge. here's what it looks like now:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3511.jpg

here's the new sensor sitting next to it:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3513.jpg

the clip on top unclips but how would i put that clip sensor on my new one with my 18 gauge wire linking off the top?

here's a pic of the surrounding area. i don't know if there is another spot i can put the sensor and get the same accurate readings or not.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3514.jpg

any advice would be a lot A LOT of help, thanks. (cool)

[A.V.MSP]

the small coolant line thats next to that clip, just cut it and put a T in it and screw the sensor into the top of the T and have the line flow thru the T.

[FL_PR5]

thats not a bad idea, but do they make T joints that wide so that i could screw the sensor into it? where would i get one that big? also, would it be the same temp as in that original point or would it be cooler or not? i would just like the most direct temp of engines water.

[FL_PR5]

has anyone else done this and kept the original wires or no? any pics would help. (bump)

[TurfBurn]

I pulled off that water manifold that the stock sensor is in.. drilled a hole into it, tapped with with the correct NPT threads, and screwed that sensor in right there.. worked perefect :)

[mazpro]

Interested in this. I have had my gauge sitting in a box for over 3 months beacuse I coulnd figure out where to install. and I need it bad, because I broke the stock one putting the overlays on.

[FL_PR5]

well i dont really feel like pulling off my block and tapping it to screw it in. i'm 17 and in HS so i dont have all the time and equipment. (boom03) can i just pull off that switch run the 18 gauge wire through a side whole in the plastic? or would it be too fat? and mazpro this is the piece rigth after the top radiator hose that connects to the block. its right next to the bracket. you can't miss it.

[mazpro]

yeah, I saw it, but I couldn't find an adapter to use both of them

[FL_PR5]

to use both sensors? i would just like to use the one for my autometer water gauge. but i dont want to trip my water light and cause problems. plus i'd like to have a second back up light.

[lasermp5]

Ya. I suck at this guage business. I got an oil temp, and the cheapo a/f to install, but idk wtf to do w/the oil temp lol. I'll admit it, I'm a noob when it comes to some shit. I was going to get a greddy oil block adapter for it, but idk what to do. Anyways, was thinking about water temp too, so I'll keep an eye on this.

...dam guages *shakes fist*

[FL_PR5]

what i'm thinking is: put in new sensor. put 18 gauge wire on for direct line to new gauge, and then try to slip the plastic link for the stock wires over it without pinching the 18 gauge wire too much. just tried to sum up my idea and dumb it down a bit so it wasn't confusing to read.

[mazpro]

Ya. I suck at this guage business. I got an oil temp, and the cheapo a/f to install, but idk wtf to do w/the oil temp lol. I'll admit it, I'm a noob when it comes to some shit. I was going to get a greddy oil block adapter for it, but idk what to do. Anyways, was thinking about water temp too, so I'll keep an eye on this.

...dam guages *shakes fist*



the oil temp is actually very easy. all you gotta do is get the "T" adapter, and take out the stock sensor in the back of the engine, and replace it with the adapter and use both sensors.

that's what I am trying to do with my water temp, but I can't find an adaptor for it.

[mazpro]

what i'm thinking is: put in new sensor. put 18 gauge wire on for direct line to new gauge, and then try to slip the plastic link for the stock wires over it without pinching the 18 gauge wire too much. just tried to sum up my idea and dumb it down a bit so it wasn't confusing to read.


I don't think that would work, but worth a try.

[FL_PR5]

ha, yes. i had to research a few pages/sites for info on gauges since i don't know that much about them or the hook up on them i should say. plus the instructions that came with them are kinda bland so it's not very specific. but i am thinking of a oil temp gauge next after i get my a/f gauge from mr. fellow user/ups truck. damn that truck taking forever. but the drawback is buying more items to plug in a sensor. but i dunno, first this gauge then pod pillar.

[TurfBurn]

I for the life of me can't follow what you are trying to do with this whole putting a the clip over an 18 guage blah blah blah... not following you in the least... so here is what I can tell you

1) DON'T cut, change, or move the stock water temp sensor... it HAS to be there and not be disturbed. Mess that wiring up and your car will run like crap and likely throw a CEL

2) if you don't want to tap that water manifold, then you need to cut your upper heater hose which is the 1-1.25" diameter hose running from that same manifold and goes down and around behind the engine. You can build a T from parts at Home Depot that will fit inline with that and will hold your temp sensor... BUT then you need to make sure that you run a ground wire/strap from that T to the block so the autometer has a ground path.

[FL_PR5]

so i take it that there is no other spot that i could put teh sensor next to the original one? the gauge has a grounding wire screw on it that i could attach a wire to. andi can ground that T with another wire i guess. they make T's in that diameter with a plug big enough for the sensor? i just havn't seen one.

do you have any pics of one or any exact store like home depot or lowes?

[TurfBurn]

if the gauge sensor has a ground spot on it, that will be fine and you wouldn't need to ground the T. If you wanted to put the sensor next to the other one you'd have to drill into that manifold and tap it which was my first suggestions.. it only takes a hand drill and an NPT tap...

If you you use a 1/4" NPT T you can screw two 1/4" NPT pipes into it (it may be 3/8" NPT or 1/2" NPT.... I don't remember off hand completely) and then the spot for the sensor you just screw in an NPT adapter... depends on what size your gauge sender is.. usually is 1/8 or 1/4" NPT.... but put that adapter into the T and you'll be all set...

[Salmon_Rob]

you people need electric gauges :p

[TurfBurn]

that IS for an electric gauge.. still has to be in the water stream to read the temp.

[Salmon_Rob]

you can tap into the signal at the ecu coming off of the sensor. its what i did with all of my gauges except for the oil pressure on the first gen, BUT MAKE SURE ITS THE ECU side. like as close to the ecu as possible, or its not as accurate

[TurfBurn]

you can tap into the signal at the ecu coming off of the sensor. its what i did with all of my gauges except for the oil pressure on the first gen, BUT MAKE SURE ITS THE ECU side. like as close to the ecu as possible, or its not as accurate

That's NOT a good way to do it... depending on the internals of the gauge he is using it can both give a bad reading on the gauge itself, but also can screw up the ECU and cause it to read water temps inaccurately...

The stock ECU uses voltage measurement based on current etc... if you add or subtract resistance to the circuit by going in series or parallel you alter that voltage and it messes up the readings... I don't recommend doing it as such as the implications are not completely known and it will vary gauge to gauge.

[Salmon_Rob]

if tap it in, and just draw off the signal not only do you not disrupt the signal, but you get a far more accurate reading.

[TurfBurn]

if tap it in, and just draw off the signal not only do you not disrupt the signal, but you get a far more accurate reading.

I don't know how you could get a "more accurate reading" unless you are assuming that the sensor itself is more accurate... and unless you have data sheets comparing the sensors you have no way to ascertain which sensor is indeed more accurate.

Also based on what do you assume that the signal is not affected? Have you put an oscilliscope or a calibrated voltmeter on it to verify it? Do you know the internal schematics of both the ECU and the gauge being used to ensure that there is no adverse affects? Or you are assuming some temperature differential between that location and a location in that same manifold or in the heater hose... but that differential should not exceed 5 degrees... and the gauges aren't accurate or precise enough to even yield that visually.

I'm an electrical engineer and I do control systems for a living... I also know from the work I've done for NSN that sharing resistor based sensors on the FS motors is a BAD idea typically.

Just because it "works" doesn't mean it isn't disrupting the signal etc. I haven't personally directly checked doing this on that sensor (I checked it on the TPS with the Microtech etc) so it may indeed be ok.. but before someone recommends something to someone that could cause adverse affects to their car and motor, I'd be damn sure I have proof to back it up before I make such a suggestion... and "it works for me" isn't proof enough... as "it works for me" led people to believe they could run 17 psi on stock internals too until motors started dropping like flies.

[FL_PR5]

ha true. well i just got back from school and asked my friend the same thing. he also mentioned about tapping into the original wire and then just running the gauges wire to from that instead of messing with installing the sensor. but hey, i might do that T, so where would i find that. i think i saw that on this site before but i cant remember where.

[FL_PR5]

ok, just got back from topping off car and a nice lil 2 gallon tank as back up from my gas station...only $2.67 so how could i pass it up exspecially with this town usually being out of gas.

anyways back to story,
i take it that doing the connection to the stock line is a bad idea and i'm better off doing a T or somehow getting my new gauge wire on there. only if i knew where to find that damn T (evil)

[Dexter]

if tap it in, and just draw off the signal not only do you not disrupt the signal, but you get a far more accurate reading.

?!

Explain how you get a more accurate reading if the sensor youre using isn't even designed to work with the gauge?

There is a reason why you need to use a sender...

[TurfBurn]

ok, just got back from topping off car and a nice lil 2 gallon tank as back up from my gas station...only $2.67 so how could i pass it up exspecially with this town usually being out of gas.

anyways back to story,
i take it that doing the connection to the stock line is a bad idea and i'm better off doing a T or somehow getting my new gauge wire on there. only if i knew where to find that damn T (evil)

Well, it sounds like people do that tap somewhat often... I'm just hesitant to do that as I know how those signals are read typically and how easy it is to screw them up.. keep in mind your water temp is one of the largest factors in determining your injector time in your car right after the MAF reading...

Any hardware store, or Lowe's, or Home Depot will carry the brass fittings you need to do it... I won't be home tonight at all so I can't take pictures of mine to show you... if I could remember the size it would be a lot easier... but if you measure the inside of that hose and then compare that with the oustide of the brass pieces you'll see easily what you need to do.

[aMaff]

just remember, if you can't duck it................................ (mj)

[TurfBurn]

handrill and bit, teflon tape, 1/4NPT pipe tap for about 5 bucks and about 1 hour of your time and you'd be done with this... :)

[FL_PR5]

haha i just dont want to drill because i dont want to mess it up. i dont want to miss the wrong spot, go in at an angle, or get shavings in my block or even ruin my head. i just dont want to mess up basically and ruin my engine by drilling in the wrong spot and messing up threads.
but with that T, i would assume its under $10 and a snip of the hose and some fittings and then brace it with some tightening screw thingys, forgot what they're called, and i'm done. then run the wire through firewall and to gauge and project is done.

[TurfBurn]

Yeah.. I meant to take the manifold off the car when doing it.. definitely don't recommend drilling with it on the head... but yes the T is quicker and simpler in some ways :) and less risky! Aluminum isn't always pleasant to tap.

[FL_PR5]

alright i found one on-line from this site. take a look-see:

http://store1.yimg.com/I/racerwheel_1860_270911116

but i need to find out one thing before i order: is it the 30, 34, or 36mm?

i need to measure this baby. but only if you lived on the panhandle of FL and i would pay you to tap my block for me since i am afraid of ruinning it. (shady) but do you think that this would give me a good enough reading of it? like is the water going into the engine from this tube or leaving it? and i would assume this would be placed on the black radiator hose that leads right into the block near the stock water temp sensor.

[FL_PR5]

found it at this site:

here (http://www.racerwheel.com/accessories-gauges---meters-meters-greddy-accessory.html)

that is for the greddy. they also have black in HKS with also a 38mm.

[TurfBurn]

those are way too expensive!! they run like 20-30 some bucks..... and I think the sizes are wrong... It's really honestly only like a 3/4" internal diameter hose...

I know I have one there, and some other people do as well... it's good enough for the gauge I'm sure... you only need to know the rough temperatures based on the gauge... 180-210 is ok/normal... get above about 220 and you are getting dangerous.. 250/260 and I'd make sure you have a savings for new pistons/block.

[TurfBurn]

if you wait until tomorrow night I can take measurements and post pictures for you...

[FL_PR5]

alright thats fine. i can wait for pics. i measured the inside of the sensor so i could get the measurements. those millimeters dont sound right. i got like 8mm out of 1cm. here are some pics. i'm not sure how they got those numbers. i also found there is -27 on the gauge sensor.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3518.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3524.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3526.jpg

i measured the inside of the sensor. and got those readings. so i dont know what size that would be on the greddy temp adapter. and yea, that is higher than i thought. but i found they are having labor day savings for 20 bucks so thats only 3 dollars right there.

[TurfBurn]

the sensor itself is 1/8NPT which is close to about 3/8" diameter and is about .405" .. but the therads are technically 1/8-27 NPT. and I thin the hose size would work out to like 18-25mm roughly for the inner diameter of that hose.

[FL_PR5]

so then what greddy adapter would i use for that? 30mm? i dont see anything smaller. damn, i better find a one or a bigger one so i could use the bigger adapter that came with the sensor in those pics. all these numbers :confused:

edit:* o i just caught it. is 30, 34, and 36 the size of the mian blue part for the radiator hose to connect to? and are the sensor fittings all universal so i dont have to worry about those not fitting?

[TurfBurn]

so then what greddy adapter would i use for that? 30mm? i dont see anything smaller. damn, i better find a one or a bigger one so i could use the bigger adapter that came with the sensor in those pics. all these numbers :confused:

edit:* o i just caught it. is 30, 34, and 36 the size of the mian blue part for the radiator hose to connect to? and are the sensor fittings all universal so i dont have to worry about those not fitting?

well they intend those adapters to go in the upper radiator hose which also is a workable option... just not as attractive as it can't be "hidden" at all... that's why the large sizes... as far as the sensor being universal... most gauges use 1/8 NPT.. but it's not universal for stock sensors as those vary from 1/8" to weird metric sizes and other stuff that gets a lot bigger typically...

I'll check it all tomorrow evening and I'll get you everything you need to decide what to do.

Later.

[FL_PR5]

alright thanks man. you have been more than helpfull. you are awesome haha (mj)

i dont really care about the attractivity of it since it is under my hood and if i want i can possibly turn it upside down so that it is less noticable. i dont mind paying that much for it if it makes it easier and does the same job as the stock one. plus it would help in the Florida sun (drive) i just want something quick and easy and i believe this is it. i'll ttyl then.

thanks,
-bob.

[FL_PR5]

any word on those pics?

[TurfBurn]

nope.. that's tonight remember... I was not home at all last night so I couldn't get you any pics at all... but I will be home all tonight and have the car and the camera so hopefully by 7:00 or so you'll have em! :)

[FL_PR5]

o ha yea, sorr.

[TurfBurn]

alrighty... I measured the diameter.... it was .685in or roughly 17mm... so 18 mm should be ok but I'm guessin it is a 5/8" pip setup basically... and you'd just need an adapter... but anyway here is the picture of it in the heater hose etc.

hope that helps!

Later,

Steve

[FL_PR5]

hmmm. not familiar with the MP3 setup. that looks like the stock sensor on a T on one of your hoses. where did you get your T and what exact hose is that?

this is a pic of what the setup would be if i got the greddy T:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/adsf.jpg

i'm not sure what that diameter of the main radiator hose is. i think its 34mm so i would get a 34mm T?

[TurfBurn]

actually, in your picture the red circle is around the ignition capacitor... the water temp sensor is right behind it. The MP3 has the same setup as everything else. You are seeing in my picture what I did with a different water temp sensor (I have 3 of them no my car). But is what I was suggesting for you to do. The OD of what I put in there is the 17mm/.68" is a 3/8" pipe thread size... so if you go to Home Depot or the like and buy one 3/8"NPT 4" brass pipe and cut that in half, then buy one 3/8" NPT T fitting, you can screw the pipes into each end of the T, and then use one of the autometer adapters to screw into the open spot on the T and screw your sensor in and you'd be all done for about a total cost of 4 dollars and it'd be just like I showed you. Otherwise you can indeed do what you are saying there and put the greddy adapter up in the upper radiator hose... it's completely up to you..

[FL_PR5]

well i like that idea since it's cheaper. i couldn't really understand all of what you were typing. prolly because it was so early (eyeballs) OD? and cut the brass pipe in half? do i go to home depot but a 3/8" thread size brass tube thats 4" long and then screw my sensor into it or does home depot just carry the T itself? sorta confused on that.

[TurfBurn]

You need to buy the following at Home depot:
1 - 4" 3/8" NPT brass pipe
1- 3/8" NPT T fitting

You'll take that brass pipe and cut it in half to make two 2" sections that will then screw into the T fitting. That leaves one open spot on the T fitting. The gauge should have come with some adapter fittings and one of those should be a 3/8"NPT to 1/8"NPT adapter which will make it so that when you screw that into the T fitting, you can then screw the sensor into that adapter, and you'll be all sealed up the way you should be.

That make sense?

So roughly like this:
1/2 pipe ----- T Fitting ---- 1/2 pipe
|
3/8" to 1/8"NPT Adapter
|
sensor


And I am assuming that your sensor is 1/8" NPT which is what autometer uses for their senders etc... 1/8-27 NPT is the threading.

[FL_PR5]

haha alright. wow, i defiantley got it now. uhm, one last question...which hose does that go in? the one right behind it stock sensor, the hose with the clip on it? and i am going to go to home depot to go check this out.

[TurfBurn]

Yeah, it's the black hose that attaches to the backside of the manifold that the stock sensor is in....

[FL_PR5]

ok i went to home depot and got the stuff. wasn't a problem. here's the pix of them.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3529.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/000_3530.jpg
thats the it with a the sensor in it.

now i just need to verify the hose. i'll take a pic of the one i think it is and you can let me know before i start cutting into it (wow)

[FL_PR5]

ok heres the hose question photos. i couldn't figure out which one it is out of the 3. so heres the pics to clarify my question:

in this pic is it the red one or the yellow? this is a side shot by the CAI. the red one comes straight down by the electrical wires. and the yellow is a hose that comes out of the back or goes into the back. it's the top hose that leads out/in the block.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/ads.jpg

here's another angle:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/asd.jpg

i used the same colors but just different angles for the hoses so you could see them better. both pics are on the side by the CAI. the yellow one is the top hose that leads out the back and is the only one i thought could be it. the hose highlited in red is too skinny for the brass T but the yellow fits just right by what i can tell. but the pink one is the fat hose on the bottom bellow the yellow. i dont think i cut into that hose from what i can tell. but if you can clarify what hose it is then i will be done and ready to install. thanks man.

[Brian MP5T]

well i dont really feel like pulling off my block and tapping it to screw it in. i'm 17 and in HS so i dont have all the time and equipment. (boom03) can i just pull off that switch run the 18 gauge wire through a side whole in the plastic? or would it be too fat? and mazpro this is the piece rigth after the top radiator hose that connects to the block. its right next to the bracket. you can't miss it.

Just disconect it from the rad and heater core, remove the bolts that hold the water manifold on and get it drilled out like was suggested. if not you will contaminate the lines with Aluminium shavings. I really do not know why you all care so much about water. Yes the stock indicator lacks, but it works fine.

[Bigg Tim]

No matter what you do, you will have to disconnect something from the coolant path, so you might as well take the 3 or 4 bolts off the housing that holds the stock coolant sensor and remove it. Then take it to a bench, drill a hole in it and tap it with the correct tap. I did mine right next to the stock sensor this way and it works great. Definatly a cheap way to go, not to mention the right way to do it. You don't worry about shaving's because it is not on the motor when you drill and tap it. You can clean it up before you put it back on and you will have no problems. Screw that ghetto rigging, you then have more clamps to worry about leaking.

[FL_PR5]

well i wouldn't mind doing that. i would love to. but as i expressed before i dont want to mess it up. i don't own a tap, never used a tap, and don't know the exact science of screwing it in. all i know is you push and twist to make threads. i'm still learning how to work on cars and i just dont want to experiment with this exact part of it. in my eyes i am better off doing it this way and will be able to get the same readings, if not exact but in the same area.

brian- i got a water temp gauge since i drive my car a lot in our traffic in this nice hot florida summer sun and my friends just blew his radiator some how. so i'd rather play it safe and know before hand if my car gets too hot that way i can let it cool down if i have to. just what i put together in my head. it will make me feel better in my head, might seem odd to you but not to me. you know those purchases you just have to have that dont make sense to anybody else but you just have to have it, like a compulsion almost. that's how i feel about it. odd ain't it.

[TurfBurn]

the hose you indicated in yellow is the one... the setup should fit inside that hose if you cut it to allow for the positioning.

[FL_PR5]

cut it to allow for positioning? - i was going to cut the hose about where you have it. put in the T, clamp it down and run the wire through the fire wall to gauge. and quick question on the wire. did you use 18 gauge or 16? my friend gave me some 16 gauge with a automotive covering with 3 other wires in it. dosn't the wire go between the washer and bottom nut?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/Lockrdge/ase.jpg

[TurfBurn]

Yeah... what you said is correct on cutting the hose.. I was in a hurry and that was all.

the signal wire (which is positive) goes between the very top nut that screws off and whatever is below it... then remember you need to ground this whole assembly one way or another.

Later,

Steve

[FL_PR5]

yep, thanks man. i'm going to use the green wire for the grounding, since it's usually that color. for the ignition cable point i'm trying to decide what to tap into that always comes on when the car does. the only thing that i can think of is the cigarette lighter but thats not that close. hmm, come to think of it i need something to tap into for the light to come on also on the back of the gauge. maybe the cigarette lighter will also do well for that.

[mazpro]

TurfBurn, how did you ground the set up?

when I got my gauge, I tried just hooking it up, and leaving the sensor outside, when it grounded somewhere, the gauge just went to the max temp. like it would do that when I touched the head or any type of ground, is it supoused to do that??

[FL_PR5]

i actually just planned out my wire setup. i think i might wire it even though i dont have a pod for it right now. and i am also waiting on boosted orange to answer me if he has sent my air/fuel gauge...been waiting almost 2wks now. hopefully that will be here monday. anyways...i am going to take one wire to sensor and ground right next to it on the brass bracket that goes towards the front. it says to ground next to it so thats where i plan on doing it. then for ignition i am going to switch i am going to wire to cigarette lighter and join the light to it also, so the light will always be on. and then ground the white wire from the light to a negative ground point above the fuse box inside the footwell. hoping that light setup works, i just tested it in my car somewhat and it did.

now just waiting on him to send my gauge so i can get started....

[FL_PR5]

i'll take pics for you of when i'm done and post them here.

[TurfBurn]

TurfBurn, how did you ground the set up?

when I got my gauge, I tried just hooking it up, and leaving the sensor outside, when it grounded somewhere, the gauge just went to the max temp. like it would do that when I touched the head or any type of ground, is it supoused to do that??

It sounds like you had something wrong.... if you touched the terminals wrong you could have fried the gauge itself... but it shouldn't jump up to max temp... if anything you should get nothing... BUT.... you have to make sure you ground the right spot... if you ground something wrong you'd just short the gauge out to ground and I'm not sure what that would do completely.. but in short... no it shouldn't do that.

[FL_PR5]

where did you ground yours at turf? is the bracket safe thats on the engine itself right by the stock water temp sensor thats right infront of it?

[mazpro]

where did you ground yours at turf? ...


Bump!

hopefully I didn't fry my gauge.

[FL_PR5]

haha i second bump that. but hey, isnt the gauge under a warranty?

[mazpro]

I think it might be, I'll check.

[FL_PR5]

alright. that sounds about right. when i got mine off ebay it is brand new and said under warranty or icluded warranty.

[TurfBurn]

Yeah, that brass colored bracket by the stock water temp sensor is actually a factory ground point... so you can definitely use that.

[nonameheroes]

dont forget to use some sort of teflon tape on those threads or you'll have a nice little leak going.

[FL_PR5]

one setp ahead of ya on that tape. i have the brass T with sensor already in it tightened as far down as it can with teflon already on it. i even tightened the sensor down since that seemed a little loose.

[mazpro]

I will put a little tape, but on the instructions it say not to use it because the sensor has to have a good ground.

[Brian MP5T]

Pipe DOPE, High Temp Thread Sealer...

[TurfBurn]

I second Brian's suggestion... the dope does a lot better job of sealing, and you get a good ground still usually.

[TurfBurn]

It's just more reliable basically... the teflon tape should work okay though too...

[Brian MP5T]

http://www.defusco.com/Images/pd16%20-%20pipe%20dope.jpg

[Brian MP5T]

http://www.permabondllc.com/ssgasketmaker.pdf

[mazpro]

Nice, I'll look into that. I got everything and tested that gauge and it works perfectly. Now I gotta get someone to give me a ride and get some sealer, I don't want to drive the car leaking coolant, but the Pepboys is like 10 mins away, well see what happens.

here are the pics of my set up. thanks for the help everyone.

[TurfBurn]

So you just went in the TB line instead of the heater line... that works too! (I don' thave that line as it keeps the TB cooler to keep air charges down...)

[FL_PR5]

yea i was about to say...i was going to attack a different line and that couldn't be right. but yea, i might do that too but if teflon works fine then i dont see why i would need to.

[nonameheroes]

i think that might be the 1.8 or even 1.6 motor cause looking at my motor, my stock sensor looks way different then that one.

[Brian MP5T]

I don't know why this Temp Thing is an issue. If you are that paranoid, just pull out the thermostat.

[TurfBurn]

I don't know why this Temp Thing is an issue. If you are that paranoid, just pull out the thermostat.

That's a bad idea. I had looked into that as I too thought it would be a great way to lower temps. Turns out however, that the restriction that the thermostat provides is apparently very important in keeping the fluid pressure higher in the block. If you remove the thermostat you need to put in a properly sized restrictor plate instead. Which is something I may end up doing myself.

I'll see if I can find and post the articles regarding that sometime soonish.

I can't find the article I'm looking for but you can find plenty of places that indicate one of two other "issues" with no thermostat... 1) coolant cycling can be too quick which will result in not enough heat dissipation through the radiator (not enough time exposed to the cooling affects of the radiator). There is both good and bad to that concept... I don't completely buy it, but at the same time there is a least a grain of reason to it.
2) running the motor too cool can result in extra wear and tear on some parts.

[mazpro]

I don't know why this Temp Thing is an issue......

this is an issue for me, because I broke my stock gauge and I felt the car was overheating on my trip to orlando. now that I am going to North Carolina, I need to make sure the car works fine.

everything is done and working. I will post pics of everything when I am done waxing the car. the Teflon tape worked just fine.

[FL_PR5]

glad to hear mazpro. i'll hook mine up tomorrow with my a/f gauge and post pics as well.

cutting me deep brian with these comments (no)

[Brian MP5T]

That's a bad idea. 1) coolant cycling can be too quick which will result in not enough heat dissipation through the radiator (not enough time exposed to the cooling affects of the radiator). There is both good and bad to that concept... I don't completely buy it, but at the same time there is a least a grain of reason to it.
2) running the motor too cool can result in extra wear and tear on some parts.

I agree with the coolant speed (Dwell Time) with a stock radiator, however on a triple pass such as mine, it's probably not an issue. For Summer here I remove the thermostat and have installed two 90 deg brass taps one to the heater core line and one to the return line (Metal in front of block). Basically, it forces all the coolant to pass the rad every time. It varies with ambient temperature but needless to say it has never gone higher than two dashes less than normal (9 O'Clock) even stopped in traffic.

If it's colder, I open one tap to the heater core and if it's colder still, I open the bypass. In the fall I install the thermostat and keep both open.

Seems complicated but I'm sure the added cooling helps keep the oil together in the long run.

Believe me, I am not suggesting this to anyone. It makes sense to me so I continue with it.

[TurfBurn]

I agree with the coolant speed (Dwell Time) with a stock radiator, however on a triple pass such as mine, it's probably not an issue. For Summer here I remove the thermostat and have installed two 90 deg brass taps one to the heater core line and one to the return line (Metal in front of block). Basically, it forces all the coolant to pass the rad every time. It varies with ambient temperature but needless to say it has never gone higher than two dashes less than normal (9 O'Clock) even stopped in traffic.

If it's colder, I open one tap to the heater core and if it's colder still, I open the bypass. In the fall I install the thermostat and keep both open.

Seems complicated but I'm sure the added cooling helps keep the oil together in the long run.

Believe me, I am not suggesting this to anyone. It makes sense to me so I continue with it.
The way you have set it up is super cool and I'll have to keep it in mind. i thought you were recommending for the average joe with the stocker to just pop out the thermostat and call it good... :) But I see where you are coming from and are spot on as usual. :)

[Brian MP5T]

The way you have set it up is super cool and I'll have to keep it in mind. i thought you were recommending for the average joe with the stocker to just pop out the thermostat and call it good... :) But I see where you are coming from and are spot on as usual. :)

For Auto-X where the car is WOT all the time, It's not about if but when the cooling system will start to fail and fall short. The car is rarely going "Rad Cooling Speeds" and in that case the fan is not capable, this mod is perfect.

[TurfBurn]

For Auto-X where the car is WOT all the time, It's not about if but when the cooling system will start to fail and fall short. The car is rarely going "Rad Cooling Speeds" and in that case the fan is not capable, this mod is perfect.

I've found that with a bone stock cooling system, simply wiring both the AC and the radiator fans to be on all the time keeps the temps perfectly in check the entire time even on 90+ degree days... after 3 hard runs I had to pop the hood to let some heat out, but up until then, never shutting the car off etc, I kept at 185 or below.

[LinuxRacr]

I've found that with a bone stock cooling system, simply wiring both the AC and the radiator fans to be on all the time keeps the temps perfectly in check the entire time even on 90+ degree days... after 3 hard runs I had to pop the hood to let some heat out, but up until then, never shutting the car off etc, I kept at 185 or below.

That's the way I have my fans set up now. I need to go ahead and hook up my fans to the Haltech. Turf, can you hit my thread up on the E6X, and tell me the pulse settings for the stock radiator fan?

Back on topic!

[TurfBurn]

That's the way I have my fans set up now. I need to go ahead and hook up my fans to the Haltech. Turf, can you hit my thread up on the E6X, and tell me the pulse settings for the stock radiator fan?

Back on topic!

Pulse settings? Mine are literally hard wired to the ignition... as soon as that key comes on those fans run and never stop, slow down, or anything..

[aMaff]

Pulse settings? Mine are literally hard wired to the ignition... as soon as that key comes on those fans run and never stop, slow down, or anything..
Is that how they come stock?

[TurfBurn]

Is that how they come stock?

No, not at all... stock neither fan comes on initially, then the stock ECU turns on the radiator fan at a certain water temp... probably around 160 or so... the AC fan I don't know the full behavior of, but I would guess that it runs continuously when the AC is activated...

You can set things up to run how you want with the Microtech if you choose, but for my purposes and for cooldowns etc I deemed it was best and simplest to hardwire both my fans to simply run anytime the engine could/would be running.

[carbonkid]

Thanks for the tips, BT, I think I will be doing this this week. Can you post a picture with the location of where you tapped into the housing? Or at least hijack one of these pics and photoshop an arrow on it? THanks!!




No matter what you do, you will have to disconnect something from the coolant path, so you might as well take the 3 or 4 bolts off the housing that holds the stock coolant sensor and remove it. Then take it to a bench, drill a hole in it and tap it with the correct tap. I did mine right next to the stock sensor this way and it works great. Definatly a cheap way to go, not to mention the right way to do it. You don't worry about shaving's because it is not on the motor when you drill and tap it. You can clean it up before you put it back on and you will have no problems. Screw that ghetto rigging, you then have more clamps to worry about leaking.

[Bigg Tim]

Thanks for the tips, BT, I think I will be doing this this week. Can you post a picture with the location of where you tapped into the housing? Or at least hijack one of these pics and photoshop an arrow on it? THanks!!

I'll get you some later tonight.

[FL_PR5]

yea i've been sitting on this since i am waiting on my pod pillar from horsepowerfreaks now. but i've only ran my wires through the firewall as of now. i'm placing the sensor most likely in on wed. when the pods come in. so i'll make a new thread with pics so you can see and also post some here. i'm doing the T fitting as below in the pics.

[carbonkid]

Thanks!!

I'll get you some later tonight.

[LinuxRacr]

No, not at all... stock neither fan comes on initially, then the stock ECU turns on the radiator fan at a certain water temp... probably around 160 or so... the AC fan I don't know the full behavior of, but I would guess that it runs continuously when the AC is activated...

You can set things up to run how you want with the Microtech if you choose, but for my purposes and for cooldowns etc I deemed it was best and simplest to hardwire both my fans to simply run anytime the engine could/would be running.

The stock radiator fan comes on at 207 F, and goes off under 200 F! I've documented this. I want to hook mine up to the Haltech to come on around 180-185 F.

[TurfBurn]

Wow... I'm shocked it comes on so high... I usually start freaking out if my water temps get that high...

[Brian MP5T]

The stock radiator fan comes on at 207 F, and goes off under 200 F! I've documented this. I want to hook mine up to the Haltech to come on around 180-185 F.

Why not get a diferent thermostat switch wired directly to a relay that works the fans..

[Brian MP5T]

http://www.westernmotorsports.ca/wmsweb/wmsgifs/fal-31147.gif

[TurfBurn]

I like that idea Brian... I might start including that with the Microtech's so that people can lower their fan temps...

[Bigg Tim]

That does sound like a good idea. Would the ECU complain that it cannot turn the fans on then? I wouldn't think it would because it is just sending the voltage to the fan to turn it on, but I don't know how smart the thing is.tytanium--Sorry man, I forgot to get snap them.....I'll definatly do it tonight!

[TurfBurn]

The ECU doesn't have close looped checking on the fans, so it should be just fine. You could control the stock fan relay and you'd be set.

I personally am an advocate of tying both the AC and the Radiator fan together at all times... it makes a MASSIVE difference.

[Bigg Tim]

The ECU doesn't have close looped checking on the fans, so it should be just fine. You could control the stock fan relay and you'd be set.

I personally am an advocate of tying both the AC and the Radiator fan together at all times... it makes a MASSIVE difference.

I think that's a good idea too. Here in AZ, I have temps in the 220's while in traffic, so it gets DAMN HOT here.

[FL_PR5]

quick question. i'm outside wiring it and i need a answer: i'm grounding it right now and will any of the ground wire points work? i'm chosing the one by the sway bar top right of the battery. i'm also doing my AF gauge and am thinking about using that same spot. it's on teh brass bracket right next to the stock red sway bar next to the battery by the wiper motor i believe. good spot??

[TurfBurn]

Any available patch of metal anywhere... any bolt... is good for a ground on the motor... (well 99% of the points)... a good one is if you see that little black square box right by the stock water temp sensor... that's the ignition capacitor... and right there is a small bolt holding down a set of wires on a strange clip... that's a ground grouping too.. and much closer to where you are.

[FL_PR5]

alright thanks man. i'm trying to hook it all up today, atleast the wiring, before it rains, so then i get my pod pillar tomorrow all i have to do is plug it in. thanks on that quick response. back to work.

[LinuxRacr]

http://www.westernmotorsports.ca/wmsweb/wmsgifs/fal-31147.gif

Price?...Never mind! I'll go find out..

Part number: FAL-31147 (http://www.wmsracing.com/pgi-ProductSpec?FAL-31147)

[FL_PR5]

ok i just got done doing the all of the wiring in the engine bay. tomorrow when the pod comes in i will put the T in and hook up the wire to it. when i cut into that hose am i going to have to worry about radiator fluid rushing out at me? or will it be shut off with a valve or something? any input on that or how to stop it that'd be great.

[FL_PR5]

bump

[Bigg Tim]

Yup, it shouldn't be too much though. I didn't really loose a lot when I took the whole stock temp sender housing off, so you should be okay, just keep the cut end elevated and don't lick your fingers when your done!(thumb)

[TurfBurn]

Price?...Never mind! I'll go find out..

Part number: FAL-31147 (http://www.wmsracing.com/pgi-ProductSpec?FAL-31147)

I'm a flex-a-lite retailer... so I'll check my pricing for you guys too and post it when I get a chance.

[Brian MP5T]

ok i just got done doing the all of the wiring in the engine bay. tomorrow when the pod comes in i will put the T in and hook up the wire to it. when i cut into that hose am i going to have to worry about radiator fluid rushing out at me? or will it be shut off with a valve or something? any input on that or how to stop it that'd be great.

Splush!

[Bigg Tim]

Thanks for the tips, BT, I think I will be doing this this week. Can you post a picture with the location of where you tapped into the housing? Or at least hijack one of these pics and photoshop an arrow on it? THanks!!

Here's some pics of the sensor for ya.

[FL_PR5]

ty bigg tim. i'm about to cut into the hose now, just waiting for it to cool some more. them be some mighty good fluid fingers (thumb)

and brian, for once you arn't helping. (pow)

[Brian MP5T]

and brian, for once you arn't helping. (pow)

Splush, As In, It will be wet...Duh...

(deadhorse

[FL_PR5]

alright just got done putting all that crap in. i lost quite a bit of fluid, and i know what you ment brian i was joking, both sides of the hose were bleeding so i tried clogging both ends. one side had a screw with a washer and the other with my good ol' thumb (thumb). but it did go in fine with some patience, which i had low of when fluid starting pooring on my hands.

so for this project i'll reccomend a buddy. 4 thumbs are better than 2. also if you can use gloves. i have a small case of chemical burn from where my hand was rubbing agains the metals in tight spots with warm fluid settling in on them. anyone know the best solution for this? also i heard you can't mix different color radiator fluids because they'll ruin the radiator? is that true? i lost some bit of fluid and more than likely will need to add some, i'll check again in alil once car has cooled down from test run. the stuff in my car is green and at my house i have prestone clear stuff, will that work? thanks for everyones help. i'll make a thread with pics and help credits.

[Brian MP5T]

Top It with water for now and flush the system once you are satified that it works...

[FL_PR5]

alright it works and everything is fine. now i just checked it. i can see the metal in the radiator and it needs fluid. so can i just put prestone in there instead of flushing it or do i have to flush it?

[TurfBurn]

Just use water... technically a car runs best with 30% glycol solution (anti-freeze)... especially in your region you have NO need for the 50%.. so just use water... it'll be fine (total capacity of the cooling system is like 3-4 gallons... you'll use about a quart to fill it up.. you can do the math, but you'll see it doesn't matter much).

[FL_PR5]

ok, i got some water in a jug in the garage. i just poor it in the radiator cap directly into the radiator? making sure i do it right.

[FL_PR5]

ok, i just read the jug and it says "Zephyrhills spring water", will that water work?

[FL_PR5]

ok it's good. i filled it up with some of the water from the jug and it ran fine. prolly only used about 25% of the jug give or take alil. letting the car cool down before i pop off the cap and see if there's anymore air bubbles in there.

[TurfBurn]

Yeah... you should be all set per the above :)

[FL_PR5]

alright thanks man you've helped out so much. i actually made the how-to in the photo/video forum so check it out there.

[TurfBurn]

Great! :)

[carbonkid]

Here's some pics of the sensor for ya.

DUDE!! Thank you, Thank you!!

[FL_PR5]

check out the how-to for more pics and clearer instructions. (attn)

[carbonkid]

did the water temp housing drill and tap method, so far no leaks, looks stock, thanks for the pics and tips!

[FL_PR5]

we are here to serve (cheers)