Auto-X Launch, 5Spd

[aMaff]

Well, I guess this would go for any launch...but anyway, I know a lot of you guys n gals race (in some form or another) and I was wondering if anyone has found ideal launch RPMs for the P5? I haven't had minefor a month yet, so I'm still experimenting.

[Katya4me]

I know we try to launch the Miata at about 4K, I think I launch the P5 and MSP a little lower, probably about 3K.

[Brian MP5T]

It depends on how much HP your car is and what clutch/Tires you are running.

Auto-X and Protege's is a bad mix IMO. It's too easy to spin a Main due to oil starvation.

[Katya4me]

I autoxed my P5 about 12 times last year and at least that many times this year. I and a codriver put 12 runs and 3 practice runs on the P5 at a Divisional and in one weekend, the bf and I put 36 runs on the MSP and we have put at least 100 runs on the MSP this year. The Proteges are fine for autox as long as you take care of them. I know some people have had some rotten apples and maybe we have just gotten lucky, but I'm at 37K w/ my P5 and the MSP is at 27K and they are doing fine (other than us trying to mod them and that's not their fault).

[Rogue]

as long as you keep enough oil in the car, you won't have starvation issues.

I spun a bearing because i was 2qts low. I'm an idiot.

I launch around 3500 rpm. When I autocross I have 15" rims with Kumho Victoracers (205x50). I also have intake/header/catless exhaust.

[xelderx]

My theory on the oil starvation is that the higher milage motors are burning oil, but you can't really tell becasue the cats are burning off the residue. Eventually the oil level gets low. you don't suspect it to be low, because there are no signs of oil loss. Then you go racing and, boom, it's done. I would put at least 4.5 quarts of oil in the car. It won't hurt to be a little high. There is plenty of room in the botoom end. I pent the big money and went Accusump. The pre-oiling effect is very nice.

As for launch RPM's...it's very relative to the setup. My car will launch completely different from a stock car. I have to launch mine at a lower RPM due to how quick it rev's, how much camber I'm running in the front, and because of the stiff suspension. I don't have a problem spinning all of first gear with my LSD...even on R-Comps.

[Rogue]

i was burning oil and didn't know it.

Justin, does this constitute me being able to join Zoom Zoom Boom Club?

[aMaff]

Thanks for the tips. Mine's pretty much stock, just a cat-back and 17's. Katya4me, are those numbers magnetic? If so, where'd u get them, and how much did they run you?

[slayer4u]

Justin, does this constitute me being able to join Zoom Zoom Boom Club?

You'd get my vote.

[protege02]

i found that launching at 2800rpm to 3k rpm is good, but that's when i only had the mazdaspeed axelback. i haven't launched my car with 17's or intake yet. im thinking around 2800rpm will do.

[Katya4me]

Thanks for the tips. Mine's pretty much stock, just a cat-back and 17's. Katya4me, are those numbers magnetic? If so, where'd u get them, and how much did they run you?

They are magnetic and a local autoxer makes them and sells them, they are very high quality. They run from about $25-50 for a set, depending on the size, colors and number of letters. I believe mine are 10" for the numbers and 5" for the letters. If you want his contact information, send me a PM, he's a really nice guy.

If you want to keep your costs lower or don't have a season number, I'd recommend getting the 20' roll of white magnetic sheeting from A.C. Moore and cutting out 2 sets of numbers from that and a set of class letters. We did that for when we autox w/ other clubs and it was maybe $20 for the roll.

Are you running in STS then?

[aMaff]

Nope, H-Stock (NHS right now, actually, I just started). On that note, any1 know if the P5 is classed different than the regular Protege? I checked the SCCA rule book, and they don't have an entry for the P5, so we're sorta winging it. Protege02, 2800 - 3K sounds abt right. I kinda have crappy tires on it, so they kinda take a bit to hook up. When I get some cash I'm thinkin abt getting a set of rims and some sticky rubber strictly for auto-x. Hey, w/ the seats down, they'll fit easily in the P5. Who needs a trailer lol.

[Katya4me]

Well, you aren't allowed to run the 17"s in HS unless you've got a lax club, only stock size rims allowed. Oh, and the P5 does fall into HS, the MP3 is in GS and the MSP currently in DS.

In the P5, I can put 4 15" rims in the hatch w/ the cover off, and 8 total in w/ the seats folded. And if I stack the 14" Miata rims 3 high, I can get 8 wheels in and a cooler, the racing jack, autox box w/ the numbers and impact wrench, etc. in it, and the torque wrench and still be able to have a passenger in the front seat.

[aMaff]

Well, you aren't allowed to run the 17"s in HS unless you've got a lax club, only stock size rims allowed.

It must be a lax club lol. But seriouly, I thought that the P5 came w/ 16's, or they were at least an option, and that u were allowed to run +1 wheels and tires in stock. I could be wrong, but that's what I was told. I'm not planning to go to nationals or anything lol, so I'm not really worried about it.

[Katya4me]

It must be a lax club lol. But seriouly, I thought that the P5 came w/ 16's, or they were at least an option, and that u were allowed to run +1 wheels and tires in stock. I could be wrong, but that's what I was told. I'm not planning to go to nationals or anything lol, so I'm not really worried about it.

You can run a + or - 5mm offset difference, that's it. For ex. the MSP has a 17"x7" rim w/ a 55mm offset, we can run a 50mm offset, but that's the only change we can make. The P5 came stock w/ 16"x6" rims in a 48mm offset, no wheel size options. But if you aren't winning, I don't think anyone's going to be too concerned, esp. if they are running a Novice class. Have fun and learn the ropes now, figure out if you want to stay in HS or not and then come back next year prepped for whatever class you want to run in. Oh, and have lots of fun. :D

[aMaff]

Yeah, I'm not too concerned abt it. I've only been once...and I lost to a Miata on just-within-the-rules tires on lol. It was hellatiously fun tho, and I'm def gonna keep going. I was thinking abt getting a set of 16's or 17's (I guess 16's would prolly be the better choice now that u said that) if I actually decided to run HS competitively (I'm not planning on doing anything else to my car lol).

Me @ my 1st auto-x: (nana)

[aMaff]

Speaking of Auto-x, anyone know where I can get a Snell approved helmet for cheap? (besides e-bay...)

[kcbhiw]

Speaking of Auto-x, anyone know where I can get a Snell approved helmet for cheap? (besides e-bay...)

www.pittmanperformance.com (http://www.pittmanperformance.com)

Are you located in Macon, GA or Macon somewhere else?

[aMaff]

Ya man, good ol Darkness Maconga. I should prolly fix that huh?

[kcbhiw]

Ya man, good ol Darkness Maconga. I should prolly fix that huh?

Come join us at an auto-x up here in Atlanta. A few guys from this forum race together regularly.

[aMaff]

When's ur next 1? I'm thinking I'm going to (mostly) stick w/ the Mid-GA Region. It's a little closer, don't have to drive through ATL, and it's cheaper ($25). But ya, lemme know, and I'll see what I can work out.

[Foolish]

In the P5, I can put 4 15" rims in the hatch w/ the cover off, and 8 total in w/ the seats folded. And if I stack the 14" Miata rims 3 high, I can get 8 wheels in and a cooler, the racing jack, autox box w/ the numbers and impact wrench, etc. in it, and the torque wrench and still be able to have a passenger in the front seat.

Oh Katya, talk dirty to me some more. ;)

Autocross girls are sooo sexy!

[Mike R]

Oh Katya, talk dirty to me some more. ;)

Autocross girls are sooo sexy!


+1 The CDC auto-x was quite impressive in that respect (yes)

[kcbhiw]

When's ur next 1? I'm thinking I'm going to (mostly) stick w/ the Mid-GA Region. It's a little closer, don't have to drive through ATL, and it's cheaper ($25). But ya, lemme know, and I'll see what I can work out.

The next event isn't until the first weekend in October. Our schedule and everything pertaining to the events can be found out www.soloatlanta.com (http://www.soloatlanta.com).

[khaosman]

Just don't launch it like this (watch the tach in the second run): http://www.khaosman.com/albums/aug05/ottox.wmv

The guy is a good driver and a great guy, but... watch the video.

[kcbhiw]

Just don't launch it like this (watch the tach in the second run): http://www.khaosman.com/albums/aug05/ottox.wmv

The guy is a good driver and a great guy, but... watch the video.

Ha! A near redline launch. Classic.

Second gear and a bit more throttle might get the car through the course a bit faster ;).


Is this your car?

[aMaff]

The next event isn't until the first weekend in October. Our schedule and everything pertaining to the events can be found out www.soloatlanta.com (http://www.soloatlanta.com).
Oy, it'll prolly have to be the Oct. 23rd event. On the second MidGA has 1 down in Cordele, and I'm gonna be going to Jacksonville after that. How many ppl usually show for the ATL events and how many runs do y'all get (I know it changes, but ballpark)?

[anarchistchiken]

Jees I cant even watch that video! There are three or four times you can just hear him let the car ride on the rev limmiter. Goodness.

[kcbhiw]

Oy, it'll prolly have to be the Oct. 23rd event. On the second MidGA has 1 down in Cordele, and I'm gonna be going to Jacksonville after that. How many ppl usually show for the ATL events and how many runs do y'all get (I know it changes, but ballpark)?

We always get a minimum of 4 runs - sometimes five. At a normal event we see 200+ drivers. LOTS of competition.

[aMaff]

Ya, might as well do something...a-like this:
(p5blue)(gun)

Maintaining the auto-x theme here, does any1 have suggestions for coming out of slow turns in 2nd? I tried downshifting it to 1st, but even w/ a well timed heel and toe I lost more time than if I had left it in gear, but in 2nd, it took for eeevvvveeerrrrr to build revs coming from that low. Would getting on the gas real, real early cure that problem? I didn't get a chance to try it, but I have a feeling it would have pulled me wide...

[aMaff]

We always get a minimum of 4 runs - sometimes five. At a normal event we see 200+ drivers. LOTS of competition.

Damn (notcool)...we got 8 last time lol...and 9 the time b4 that. More runs = fun.

[kcbhiw]

Ya, might as well do something...a-like this:
(p5blue)(gun)

Maintaining the auto-x theme here, does any1 have suggestions for coming out of slow turns in 2nd? I tried downshifting it to 1st, but even w/ a well timed heel and toe I lost more time than if I had left it in gear, but in 2nd, it took for eeevvvveeerrrrr to build revs coming from that low. Would getting on the gas real, real early cure that problem? I didn't get a chance to try it, but I have a feeling it would have pulled me wide...

I occasionally have the same issue with my Miata. If possible, try entering the corner wider and getting on the gas sooner. Sure, it may not seem possible, but I've surprised myself with what the car can do in such situations. It's all part of learning to push the car to the limit. Remember not to be "jerky" in your actions as doing so can really send you into a spin. Remember to modulate the throttle too as that can help pull you through the corner and even assist pointing the car in the right direction (depending on your setup).

[kcbhiw]

Damn (notcool)...we got 8 last time lol...and 9 the time b4 that. More runs = fun.

That's true. I'm always game for more runs, however, the competiton factor is a big player too. Running by yourself in a class isn't as much fun and isn't as gratifying when you receive that trophy. It's the competition that makes it racing and vice versa :D.

[aMaff]

Absolutely true, no denying that. Right now I'm still just doing it for the fun of going out and seeing how far my car + driver (mostly that one) combo will go.

[khaosman]

Ha! A near redline launch. Classic.

Second gear and a bit more throttle might get the car through the course a bit faster ;).


Is this your car?

Yep, that was my car. The first run was me, the second is me shitting my pants at the 5k launch lol

I got a bunch of runs that day and did about half in second for the majority of the course. The other half I did in first, as that is what most people did. 1st gear was good except for that straight where you hear me hitting the rev limiter :) 2nd gear was okay too but it bogged down a bit much. I managed a similar to my fastest run in 2nd, but I killed a cone in the chicago box :( My first ever kill though, haha.

I have a lot more learning to do though. The big 270 turn was super hard, especially since it was very dirty. The 180 turn was a beast too. Man I want to autocross real bad now (nana)

[Katya4me]

Whether you need to downshift or not, really depends on the turn. I was in the MSP at an autox that had 2 wide skidpads and the 1st of them, I wanted to downshift to 1st, but I lost too much time as you did, the other circle though required it because the car bogged horribly and I was able to accelerate coming out and upshift in a straight line. Most events, I can do in just 2nd gear. I'm also unbelievably spoiled w/ having 2 big lots that are clean and new, no cracks, gravel, plants growing, etc. :D

Someone I autox w/ said that his first year autoxing, he just looked for events w/ lots of runs so he could get the seat time. Now that he has been doing it for a little while, he wants the competition and so is seeking out challenging events, even if they have less runs. We did one event 2 weekends ago where we got 10 runs w/ only 53 competitors, then we come back to home club where we get 4 runs and 274 registered for the event. At our Sun. SCCA autox here in DC, there were 13 in the Ladies class and 9 signed up for ES. In most regions, that is unheard of, and so it is a great way to challenge yourself. I have found that for myself, I am used to the lower number of runs and stiff competition and after 4-5 runs, typically will not get any faster, so more than that is almost a waste for me. The one time that I really like having lots of runs is w/ my Mazda club, because then my friends and I swap cars. :)

[aMaff]

Ya, that's sorta what I see myself doing. The region I'm in has like $10 cheaper entry fees, and usually only 50-75 ppl show up. But ya, later on, when I'm comfortable making the car do what I want it to do, I'll prolly start going to the ATL region (where I live is like right in the middle of where the 2 regions meet lol)

EDIT: I was meaning to ask, do tires have to be stock-size tires as well to run in the stock class, or can u put wider 1's / lower profile ones, so long as they fit the stock rim?

[Katya4me]

You can use any size tires in stock class as long as they fit. We joke that the Miata has "rim protectors" because the tires extend so far past the rim. :) But you don't want low profile tires in autox because you have a greater chance of rolling over and scraping, get some nice R-comps on stock rims if you want to stay in stock, the rims aren't too expensive and are very easy to find.

[aMaff]

Anywhere I could get stock size rims (don't HAVE to be stock, but I'd like it) and the tires as a package deal?

[Katya4me]

This guy is selling stock wheels w/ mounted tires:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118200&highlight=wheels

I think Shawn paid about $100+ shipping for a set of nearly flawless polished rims this past spring. As for tires, you probably can't find a set of R-comps on P5 rims, but if you look on the SCCAforums or local autox boards, you can sometimes find people selling 16" tires that are used and you can buy those to start.

[aMaff]

(cool) thanks

[aMaff]

Anyone know anything abt this helmet (http://www.extremesupply.com/hjchelmets/hjchelmetscs5.htm)? I'm thinkin abt getting the Flat Black 1...but I was just wondering if any1's ever dealt with this store, this specific helmet, or hjc helmets in general. I just don't want to end up w/ a piece of crap, u know how it is. Thanks any info would be awesome (woowoo)

[Brian MP5T]

What was the final desision for a stock P5

[Katya4me]

I believe the consensus was to launch a stock P5 at about 2800-3000RPMs.

As for the helmet, I have a HJC full face helmet and I am very happy w/ it. I've been using it since May of 2004.

[aMaff]

I believe the consensus was to launch a stock P5 at about 2800-3000RPMs.

As for the helmet, I have a HJC full face helmet and I am very happy w/ it. I've been using it since May of 2004.
That's what I gathered as well. Thanks for the info on the helmet, I think that's the 1 I'm going to go w/.

[aMaff]

As for tires, you probably can't find a set of R-comps on P5 rims
Forgive my ignorance, but is R-comp a brand, or just a rating? How much do they usually cost?

[Rogue]

r-comp = racing compound = super sticky = fairly expensive :D

[aMaff]

ooooooooohhhhhh. duh... (bowdown)
(poke)

Yah, I totally knew that...oh wait, no I didn't. Thanks

[kcbhiw]

How much do they usually cost?

Depending on the brand and size of race rubber you use, they usually average out in the $130-$150 range per tire and they wear extremely fast (ugh)

[aMaff]

I know they'd wear fast, but if used soley for auto-x, how long should they last?

[Rogue]

1-1.5 seasons

[aMaff]

son-of-a-damnit. Well, maybe I'll get some christmas / b-day money lol. Gonna have to start (kissass) the grandparents lmao. not literally...just so we're clear...

[Rogue]

there are some street tires that are really popular with the autocrossers. Look into Falken Azenis.

[moxnix]

It depends on what type of R compounds you get.

If you want real long lasting I would get either Toyo RA1's or Kumho Victoracers. I got 70 runs out of a well used(when I bought them) set of RA1's on the MS protege before they started showing cord. I put another 20 runs on them after they started showing just because I had another event the next day. I know people that have gotten close to 200 runs on RA1's. The Victoracers will give you a lot of runs also.

For a little less runs but a lot more stick go for kumho V710's. People are getting well over 100 runs on miata's with these tires and a good number of run on mini's also.

Or you could just go with good street tires like the Kumho MX or falken azenis or hankook z212. Also those are much better than stock tires but can still be run on the street during the spring/summer/fall without problems.

[anarchistchiken]

I was gonna suggest the Azenis too.

[khaosman]

r-comp = racing compound = super sticky = fairly expensive :D

I really want to get some Avon Tech-Rs next year. I'm wondering if the 225/45/15s will fit on the P5... haha, probably not :D

[Rogue]

depending on the offset of the rims, the should fit

[xelderx]

I really want to get some Avon Tech-Rs next year. I'm wondering if the 225/45/15s will fit on the P5... haha, probably not :D

I'm running 225/45-15 Hoosiers right now. I have a +37mm offset rim and the tires stick out past the fender just a hair on the back.

[khaosman]

I'm running 225/45-15 Hoosiers right now. I have a +37mm offset rim and the tires stick out past the fender just a hair on the back.

w00t w00t, all the 15" rims I'm looking at are around there. My favorites at the moment are the Rota Track Rs... 15x7... silver... +40mm... cheap! Tires are another story though: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Avon&tireModel=Tech+R-A

They look so hot though :D

[aMaff]

Or you could just go with good street tires like the Kumho MX or falken azenis or hankook z212.
Ya, I heard a lot of good things abt the azenis. Where can u get those? Either I'm blind, or the ol' Tire Rack doesn't have 'em.. (notcool)

[Katya4me]

Tirerack doesn't sell them I don't think but Vulcan Tire does. I get mine from a local performance tire shop. If you can find some leftover RT-215s, that would be your best bet.

http://www.vulcantire.com/falken.htm?refad=GooFalkenAzenis

[Rogue]

IIRC, Tirerack is not a Falken distributor.

[aMaff]

IIRC, Tirerack is not a Falken distributor.
IIRC? :wtf:

[Katya4me]

If
I
Recall
Correctly

[Rogue]

^^^thanx Katya

[aMaff]

wow, ya, that 1 went right by me.