WOMP supercharger???? does anyone know anything about it???

[ARCVN76]

i found the WOMP supercharger, on this website:

http://www.mazda3online.com/index.php?cPath=136_27_99&sort=2a&page=2&osCsid=fb9a38dbff8f25089a7e1617f6546ecb

they said at 4.5psi it would gain 60%whp...........let me know fi you know anything about this

[NRRfrogmanP5]

lol welcome to the site...the creator of the sc is on te boards here along with the owners of the site.. its good from what i hear and that site is great service

[ARCVN76]

do you know what his user name is?? so that way i can talk to him personally???

[NRRfrogmanP5]

the guy who made the sc...is supermattyp....owner of protegegarage are dexter and capatainkrmp5

[Matthew]

but you really cant talk to the maker, i dont think, so best bet is to call or pm captain krm p5

[Prodigy]

PM sent.

[DiS]

the only reason why you cant talk to the maker is because he's banned from forums besides purgatory section..........some people just abnoxious......and thats what they get

[Protephile]

the only reason why you cant talk to the maker is because he's banned from forums besides purgatory section..........some people just abnoxious......and thats what they get

And you are not obnoxious at all.
It's unbelieveable to me that someone can't ask a question about the SC w/o this bullshit getting dredged up again.

[DiS]

And you are not obnoxious at all.
It's unbelieveable to me that someone can't ask a question about the SC w/o this bullshit getting dredged up again.

lol, didnt mean to stir shit up, my bad, and to answer.....no im not abnoxious

[Prodigy]

lol, didnt mean to stir shit up, my bad, and to answer.....no im not abnoxious
Your spelling of obnoxious is obnoxious. :)

[saitek]

ive talked to the guy who set up the system a couple months ago, well maybe closer to 3 or 4 months, but what i was told is that the supercharger well give you the power you need, you dont have to run it at the psi its set for it can take more he said. mind you i dont know much more then that, its on my list but first i need an engine that can handle it

[Scotty878]

Hey, if you want to know about that SC kit I recommend you go here....

http://www.mazda3club.com/showthread.php?t=36077

Just join there and post in that thread or PM "Roddimus Prime" who started that thread. He is also the maker of the supercharger kit. He's a moderator at that forum so he wont be banned....like I said, just post in that thread or PM him and he'll usually respond pretty quickly...Maybe you'll like it so much and make it in time to be in the first run of blowers like me! (thumb) I have the same user name at that forum aswell...

You can also try searching on here...their are two failry recent threads with a fair amount of information....Maybe I'll post them in a little bit....Just search for WOMP

Hope I could help.
Scott.

[Scotty878]

Just did a little searching for you...

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99682&highlight=womp

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115008&highlight=womp

But for the most direct answers, I advise doing what I said above, because you'll get no better answers than from the source itself!

Scott.

[SpicyMchaggis]

matty = teh win

haters = teh lose

[jersey_emt]

And you are not obnoxious at all.
It's unbelieveable to me that someone can't ask a question about the SC w/o this bullshit getting dredged up again.

How is it possible NOT to mention this? Sooner or later the original poster is going to find out that the creator of the kit is banned from this forum and will want to know why.

He was banned for breaking the rules of the forum. Not for scamming (emphasis added because that clarification is important info), but for just pushing the wrong peoples' buttons several times too many.

Informing the original poster that contacting (on this board) the person who designed the kit is impossible isn't 'dredging up that bullshit again'.

[SpicyMchaggis]

hey jersey,

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttttt tttttttt uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppppppppppppppppppppp

[DiS]

How is it possible NOT to mention this? Sooner or later the original poster is going to find out that the creator of the kit is banned from this forum and will want to know why.

He was banned for breaking the rules of the forum. Not for scamming (emphasis added because that clarification is important info), but for just pushing the wrong peoples' buttons several times too many.

Informing the original poster that contacting (on this board) the person who designed the kit is impossible isn't 'dredging up that bullshit again'.
Well said(yippy)

[Protephile]

How is it possible NOT to mention this? Sooner or later the original poster is going to find out that the creator of the kit is banned from this forum and will want to know why.

He was banned for breaking the rules of the forum. Not for scamming (emphasis added because that clarification is important info), but for just pushing the wrong peoples' buttons several times too many.

Informing the original poster that contacting (on this board) the person who designed the kit is impossible isn't 'dredging up that bullshit again'.

Honestly, I think that there are better and more mature ways to handle it.
It just drives me crazy because every time the SC is mentioned the original thread is ruined by haters. You gotta admit, no matter what else, it's tiresome, unless you find some kind of personal satisfaction in seeing all these threads turn to shit.
Instead of saying, "oh, that guy is banned" and re-opening the floodgates, why can't we just POLITELY direct the person asking toward Ken at Protege Garage? After all, it IS Ken who's responsible for those sales on this forum. Nothing needs to be mentioned about the developer of the kit. Ever.
So, yes, IMHO, you ARE dredging up bullshit again with superfluous commentary.

[Astyl]

Who cares, hell he should be unbanned just for making the WOMP Kit, he designed the first and only supercharger kit for your protege, something almost noone else on here could do, and he deserves respect

[Prodigy]

Who cares, hell he should be unbanned just for making the WOMP Kit, he designed the first and only supercharger kit for your protege, something almost noone else on here could do, and he deserves respect
It wasn't the first and only.
It was the first and only to go into production.
I agree 100%

[Replica]

so did it ever get finished? Is there a dyno yet?

[Replica]

Who cares, hell he should be unbanned just for making the WOMP Kit, he designed the first and only supercharger kit for your protege, something almost noone else on here could do, and he deserves respect
It's not the first. There is a roots-Eaton type blower in Europe for FS-DE's...

[TurfBurn]

Heres the problem with centrifugal supercharging:

Pulled from: http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/centrifugal-superchargers.html


A centrifugal supercharger is basically the same type of pump as the compressor side of a turbocharger, but is mechanically driven off the crankshaft instead of by exhaust gas. Internal gearing steps up the spin speed, and gives a distinctive whistling sound, that most drivers enjoy hearing, but the centrifugal supercharger must be classified as noisy.

The centrifugal's type of compressor - like the turbo's - is efficient only at high rpm. Because all superchargers by definition are under continual drive from the crank (i.e. with no comparable turbocharger wastegate system to cut the drive), design decisions set the limits to how much internally to gear-up (overdrive) the spooling: the centrifugal aims for high-end boost and in consequence gives almost none at low rpm.

Centrifugal superchargers build boost relative to engine rpm: boost builds exponentially in the upper half of the powerband - generally they start boosting around 2000 to 3000 rpm, and attain full boost at max rpm - i.e. the quoted maximum boost of a centrifugal happens at redline.


In the end you only are really making peak boost... not anything midrange/low end... it can't touch a turbo that is making full boost by 3K and holding it to redline... peak power is one thing... but never underestimate area under the curve. If you lookup the output of a centrifugal supercharger you'll see the exponential boost curve... and you'll see the issue.

[TurfBurn]

this shows you a twin screw versus a centrifugal supercharger for boost curve... aka when boost builds etc..

http://www.coloradocobras.com/images/whipple/morepower.gif

pulled from different section of previous website...

Turbochargers are similar to the red line, but typically reach their peak boost around 2500-3500 rpm's.. and hold it... you also have turbo lag in some cases, but a properly sized turbo, and/or other support systems can nearly eliminate lag in a turbo car.

[SpicyMchaggis]

Zomg Here We Go Again

[Prodigy]

*declares war*

wait for the new dynos.





note:
the womp sc makes more hp per psi than any turbo kit since the exhaust is free flowing(not pushing a spindle).
the graph does not show the "typical" rpm range that turbos kick in.

[Jackelope]

Hey, i've seen the kit in person and on the track, its awesome ;)

[RyanJayG]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[DiS]

Heres the problem with centrifugal supercharging:

Pulled from: http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/centrifugal-superchargers.html


In the end you only are really making peak boost... not anything midrange/low end... it can't touch a turbo that is making full boost by 3K and holding it to redline... peak power is one thing... but never underestimate area under the curve. If you lookup the output of a centrifugal supercharger you'll see the exponential boost curve... and you'll see the issue.
TurfBurn, good article. Plus supercharger gives constant load, whether you're at WOT or not. I personally wouldnt get supercharger just for the simple fact that I still want my A/C to work.

Seems like this thread is turning into shit slowly. If this is gonna keep going, this thread will end up closed.

[Replica]

*declares war*

wait for the new dynos.





note:
the womp sc makes more hp per psi than any turbo kit since the exhaust is free flowing(not pushing a spindle).
the graph does not show the "typical" rpm range that turbos kick in.
Maybe my compuer is running slow but is there supposed to be a dyno chart in between those sentences because I don't see anything. No dyno = I still dont really care about the WOMP kit.

Here's my "flame." Why do boost kits for Mazdas have stupid ass names? Flyin' Miata....WOMP...they're just tacky names...

[Prodigy]

Maybe my compuer is running slow but is there supposed to be a dyno chart in between those sentences because I don't see anything. No dyno = I still dont really care about the WOMP kit.

Here's my "flame." Why do boost kits for Mazdas have stupid ass names? Flyin' Miata....WOMP...they're just tacky names...
There's no updated dyno yet, the project is on hold due to the lack of a rear motor mount..
There will be one soon enough when everything's put back together.
The original dyno is "158whp 145lb-ft on 4.5psi " untuned.
Hopefully there will be a 7psi dyno run coming up, but I don't know what Matty's plans are.

Who cares what the name is.. It could be called "the gay blower" for all I care.
Once Matty has the new dyno, I'm sure there will be plenty of intrest.
This thread is one of the many.

The only people that have HUGE support for the WOMP sc are the ones who have seen/ridden in Matty's car. There's nothing better but a first-hand experience for now, words do NO justice.

[anarchistchiken]

Turf, I thought the same thing when Matt first told me he was using a centrifigul blower. No low end torque, builds power slowly, yada yada. But then I rode in his car, and all those worries went away and I signed up! I've ridden in twin screw and turbo cars, and the power delivery for both of them is obviously very different from eachother, but this blower doesn't feel like boost. It doesn't feel like FI at all. It just feels like you have a big, strong v-6 under the hood.


Replica, there's been a dyno out for, lets see, almost 8 months? Check out the kit on Protegegarage.com to see the dyno.


Anyone whos interested in the kit, feel free to PM Captain KRMP5 (Ken) Prodigy, or myself and we'll be more than happy to answer all your questions.


I should also mention that Matt gained 60 WHP at 4.5 PSI untuned. And when I say untuned, I mean it. He had the Haltech F-10x installed in his car to manage fuel delivery, but at the time he dynoed he was locked out of the computer for some reason. Somthing about a code needed to unlock the maps. Anyway, his AF ratios dipped down into the 9's towards the end of the run, so we're hoping to see a 5-10 WHP bump with proper tuning.

And another little update. Matty's car is fixed and running strong, but unfortunatly he sold his BD-600 blower after he broke the motor mount because he thought that the BD-11a units were going to fit and make a little more power. If you've been following the main thread at all, you'll know that the BD-11a in fact does not fit, so we're trying to sell them off and get enough people together to make a big order with Powerdyne and get a good discount

[TurfBurn]

I wasn't intending to start anything, and I don't sell or prescribe to any one method of FI or NA... the guy asked "know anything about it" I know it is centrifugal... so I posted the centrigual data...

Simple fact is yes, it's very efficient and has a very large wheel to do it with... same thing as running an absolutely massive turbo... except the womp benefits from being belt driven so it doesn't have to have spool up time and it stays in its range very easily... that does not, and can not change where the boost is or isn't created... however... because our cars shift well in the upper bands it is possible to stay in the rough area of where the centrifugal is coming on to it's exponential band... so in that sense yes you keep most of your boost.... so it is very effective... No issue there. So area under the curve comes down to where are you looking? Most of us don't try to "race" under 4.5K of revs... so does low end torque matter... if this is for racing... how many people intentionally try to start out a gear from 2k??? I would assume no one if they are trying to be fast.... the curve shapes will be totally different between everything...

But hands down at low rpm's the centrifugal will not be able to keep with the turbo for sheer torque and boost.. however the higher the rpm's go the less the difference becomes, and I don't doubt one bit that at peak boost and high rpm's that the WOMP will make MORE hp per psi than any of the turbo kits... until well tuned supercharger and high end turbo cars are put side by side off the same or known result set of dynos there isn't any way to compare the power output and area under the curve through different variations and setups and shift points. So comparing which will be "faster" is not arguable until you have a scientific data set to compare between...

My point was not what the WOMP could or couldn't do, but a simple characteristic of the centrigual style charger...

I hope my point is more understood with the above... I have other comments and thoughts on things (boost levels, simplicity, upgrades, long term, etc) either way, but I'm not going near any of that as I know people can't handle a technical discussion without bias in a lot of cases.

[TurfBurn]

And just remember... I have not ever once stated for or against the WOMP or any turbo kit... and I will never endorse or naysay any of them. Every solution has it's pluses and minuses. But if someone posts incorrect facts or doesn't show the technical background I will take issue and post against that.

EDIT: And I think it is great that Matty is doing something different... and keeping at it even with all the flack and BS either way.

[TurfBurn]

If you need a new rear motor mount I have several laying around btw.. :)

[TurfBurn]

*
the womp sc makes more hp per psi than any turbo kit since the exhaust is free flowing(not pushing a spindle).
the graph does not show the "typical" rpm range that turbos kick in.

That is incorrect Prodigy... the SC makes more hp per psi because of the efficiency of the wheel... same thing as running a MASSIVE turbo... it's simply much more efficient... the exhaust backpressure generated by a turbo becomes a very arguable point when you talk about total % loss of a motor when you compare with the same total % loss on a motor due to parasitic drag of an SC... additionally as a wastegate is opened the apparent back pressure of the turbo drops and further negates the "backpressure" the turbine adds to the system.

You are correct on the rpm range as well... but I can also provide logs of my turbo from low rpm if you like... but additionally... keep in mind that if you pre-spool the turbo.. (say hard run through 2nd gear) and then shift to bring rpm's down to around 1000 rpm's you can easily hold 10-15 psi (briefly to a reasonable time depending on turbo size etc) and also potentially fubar your motor at the same time in many cases as it'll lead to detonation from the massive load (potentially).

Also with various different spool techniques including timing adjustments and specific turbo spool feeds you can achieve as much as 30 or 40 psi at 500 rpm's (common in the drag world).

But again.. most of that stuff is NOT applicable to the normal kit and normal car as far as we are concerned with in this discussion...

[TurfBurn]

Hey, i've seen the kit in person and on the track, its awesome ;)

I don't doubt it one bit... with that efficient of a compressor it should haul ass when it comes on! :)

[anarchistchiken]

Well I dont need a rear mount, but if you happen to have a spare microtech lying around, I could probably be persuaded to pay shipping for it :D

[TurfBurn]

Here's my "flame." Why do boost kits for Mazdas have stupid ass names? Flyin' Miata....WOMP...they're just tacky names...

Marketing... if someone says WOMP you know exactly who and what... so damn good move on their part if you ask me.

[TurfBurn]

Well I dont need a rear mount, but if you happen to have a spare microtech lying around, I could probably be persuaded to pay shipping for it :D

I do have a spare one right now... but it's Ken's :) LOL.

I was saying if Matty needs one.. I have 2 or 3 of them around here.

[anarchistchiken]

Gotcha. Matty's up and running already thankfully with AWR mounts all around and new MazdaSpeed cams. But thanks for the offer ;)

[TurfBurn]

Yep.. no problem... it sounded like further up in the thread he still needed one which I could have provided quickly.. :) Looking forward to what he does with it over time. :) Looking at the dyno right now.

[TurfBurn]

Nice even dyno. good torque curve and everything.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40842

(EDIT: And might I add for the price that Ken has it at it's a damn good package.).

[Replica]

Nice curve but 145whp....sigh..hopefully it'll make at least 200whp at 8psi. Well tuned hondas and such make a healthy 250whp at around 8psi these days, hopefully after the Womp kit is out for a while people can get some great numbers out of it.

[TurfBurn]

Nice curve but 145whp....sigh..hopefully it'll make at least 200whp at 8psi. Well tuned hondas and such make a healthy 250whp at around 8psi these days, hopefully after the Womp kit is out for a while people can get some great numbers out of it.

Time will tell... one P5 on a turbo managed to pull out 200 whp at 7 psi... which is amazing...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114024&page=1&pp=15

I'm sure time and tuning and the like will yield very good results... Maybe I can convince Anarchist to go Microtech and WOMP and then I'll help him finagle his tune and see what he can do :). Ken would be able to get him both :) Also depends on supporting mods.. headwork and the like... never know what full work could really pull out of the system...

[TurfBurn]

Well off the garage for some tinkering... I'll check back with you guys in a couple hours and hope I haven't been lynched for the data etc...

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah my plan is to eventually have a fully built motor and crank the boost a little bit and see what we can reall get out of it. But that's probably a ways down the road. Unless I win the lottery.

[wwpms6]

i remember reading somewhere that matty said 7psi should be an additonal 100whp.

[anarchistchiken]

yeah with 4.5 yielding 60 over stock, 7 psi should make about 200 whp.

[wwpms6]

i'm hoping all this will be done by xmas and my bday! lol i asked my mom and everyone for the to help me get the rest of the kit for my bday/xmas present

[Scotty878]

Yeah my plan is to eventually have a fully built motor and crank the boost a little bit and see what we can reall get out of it. But that's probably a ways down the road. Unless I win the lottery.

My plan also....

[anarchistchiken]

Heres the problem with centrifugal supercharging:

Pulled from: http://www.coloradocobras.com/whipple/superchargers/centrifugal-superchargers.html


In the end you only are really making peak boost... not anything midrange/low end... it can't touch a turbo that is making full boost by 3K and holding it to redline... peak power is one thing... but never underestimate area under the curve. If you lookup the output of a centrifugal supercharger you'll see the exponential boost curve... and you'll see the issue.

Matty has something to say in response to this...


On my system I only made 4.5psi so there was not a lot of boost to be had in the low-mid range. That is true but saying that a cent. SC makes ALMOST NONE is stupid. It's nominal.
To use generic numbers: If you make 6psi @ 6,000rpms you'll make 3psi @ 3,000rpms. If you're averaging 13whp per psi. Then you're gaining 39whp @ 3,000rpms. That's HARDLY "nothing" Also they claims that Cent. SC's are noisey.....everyone in GA annd AL has heard my car...there is NO noise.
lastly, the manner in which a Cent. SC adds power is the SAFEST FORM OF BOOST YOU CAN GET. It only adds peak boost at redline when the rods can handle it best. Hitting full boost in low rpms is what destroys a lot of these weak protege engines.

Now, before anyone gets angry or defensive, centrifigul superchargers are usually noisy, so the site you quoted was right about that. However, the Powerdyne blowers we're using have a unique kevlar belt drive system, so there are no internal gears, and hence no whine.

[TurfBurn]

If someone doesn't like them becaues of noise.. LOL... that's half the fun! :). Do you guys have a specific boost curve for this supercharger? At 4.5 what does it do across rpm's... at 7 what does it do... at 14 or whatever you'll eventually do what does it have across the rpm's?

I do agree for the most part about it being safer boost... it's cooler, it comes on later, and it'll be smoother on the trans etc... so yes it is safer and he is certainly correct...

The only thing i take issue with in Matty's post is that a centrifgual is typically exponential in it's boost curve... so if it makes 6 at 6000 rpms, it isn't a straight deal where it makes 3 at 3000, 1.5 at 1500, 4.5 at 4500 etc... that would be linear which is not correct unless the vane structure of this particular compressor wheel is allowing for that somewhere.

[TurfBurn]

I did some more checking... apparently powerdyne runs a slightly different wheel the the "other guys" which gives up some efficiency but increases low end boost... however it is still not linear... just described as "more linear"

[Rism]

yea lets put a twin screw SC on the protege! Im sure the tranny would last long then. Im sure it would fit too.

[TurfBurn]

/sarcasm :)

[anarchistchiken]

yea lets put a twin screw SC on the protege! Im sure the tranny would last long then. Im sure it would fit too.

It's been done.

[RyanJayG]

and yeah, twin screw SC's are typically a lot more compact than roots blowers as well.

but hey, i'll be the first to admit its not practical on a 3rd gen protege. there just isn't enough room unless you do some crazy jack-shaft turning it on the drivers side. which imo isn't a good design. to his credit Matty designed the SC setup to best possible way it could be put on a protege. I just like my AC too much.