View Full Version : Pulleys from srmotorsports.com
hey i just saw these and was wondering if anyone else has them and how you like them??? and was the install difficult?
tsunami
08-25-2005, 06:52 PM
i am curoius as well if anyone has these... the price isn't to bad if it is as claimed and gives you a 5-10hp gain... $$400 or so iirc.... add a flywheel and clutch and that engine will hit redline if you look at it wrong i am sure...
MrTea
08-25-2005, 09:04 PM
been talked about before. SR is kinda weird with their products. check out the dyno's....who's starting with 118hp? ....and same dyno for the 6??
Walter from MarcyMotorsport as well as Ricardo from FR Focus, said to stay away from pulley on this engine until it can be looked at more. doesn't look promising in the long run.
AzMz3
08-26-2005, 01:28 AM
been talked about before. SR is kinda weird with their products. check out the dyno's....who's starting with 118hp? ....and same dyno for the 6??
Walter from MarcyMotorsport as well as Ricardo from FR Focus, said to stay away from pulley on this engine until it can be looked at more. doesn't look promising in the long run.
I'm sure they have said that because of the detail needed to do the install.
With the right tools it is not hard to do and will produce good gains. So far there have yet to be anything to suggest them to be harmful in the long run, besides opinions. But that is the main reason they are not interested in them.
Not everyone follows directions to the "T".
yea 2 be honest i dont c y there would be any problems.....and even if there is thats how you make it better thats what tuning is all about right?? trial and error?
goldwing2000
08-26-2005, 08:53 AM
$400+ is a little expensive for trial and error, especially when just about every other underdrive kit is half or quarter that price.
AzMz3
08-26-2005, 12:17 PM
$400+ is a little expensive for trial and error, especially when just about every other underdrive kit is half or quarter that price.
Trial and error is dependant on the person.
I seriously doubt you can find a quailty udp kit for a quarter of even half.
goldwing2000
08-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Trial and error is dependant on the person.
I seriously doubt you can find a quailty udp kit for a quarter of even half.
Did you bother researching anything before voicing your "serious doubts"? Or are you just up to your old "because I said so" tricks?
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=300174
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductBrowse/refId-20004495/showCustom-0/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005346/c-10101/p-2005346/N-10101+111+20004495/tf-Browse/s-10101
http://www.jdrcustom.com/Zoops-6142.html
http://www.lmperformance.com/4327/50.html
http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/wrx-drivetrain.html
http://www.modacar.com/products/VW/Golf/NSUDPS
Solo2Protege
08-26-2005, 01:58 PM
I know that earlier Mazdas, while they'll benefit from gains, the downfall is that the UDP underdrives the oilpump and it would eventually fail....i'd say that's a big side effect.
I have no idea how the 2.3L is setup, so it may not have that effect at all. But thought i'd mention it.
tsunami
08-26-2005, 06:28 PM
400$$ is for all the pulles not just the UDP though... but the UDP is the one that can cause the most problems and would be the hardest to do... i believe there are 3 total.. udp, ac, and water...?? i could be wrong though...
i see on GW's links that those kits include all pulleys as well for 100-150$$ less then the sr kit... so there you have it... over priced...
Lord_Zath
08-26-2005, 07:49 PM
SR motorsports inflates their prices like mad.
Give you an example. On their website, they are selling a header for the 2.0l protege for 599 (reduced from 899). It's the OBX header. The same friggin thing. And the price of the OBX header? About 200 or so.
MrTea
08-26-2005, 08:58 PM
if you really want a UDP you can just get the FC one for half the price. Walter had UDP's on all his cars except the 2.3's as he feels (he's installed plenty, he's not lazy). he hadn't looked at the 6, but says a for sure no on the 3.
yes the install is the "hard" part, being it's precise. can it be done with the right tools and skilled machanic, for sure...but some pros feel the after effects are far from worth the benefits.
AzMz3
08-26-2005, 09:09 PM
if you really want a UDP you can just get the FC one for half the price. Walter had UDP's on all his cars except the 2.3's as he feels (he's installed plenty, he's not lazy). he hadn't looked at the 6, but says a for sure no on the 3.
yes the install is the "hard" part, being it's precise. can it be done with the right tools and skilled machanic, for sure...but some pros feel the after effects are far from worth the benefits.
Walter says no, no because the Focus pulley and the Mazda3 pulley are very different. Focus only uses one drive belt, the Mazda3 has the drive belt and the A/C belt.
So the FC one will not work unless you are going to remove the AC compressor or belt.
Anyone that has ever installed cam gears or cams on the Zetec Focus will know how to install UDP's on the Mazda3 or Focus 2.3L it is easy and basicly the same. You use the same tools.
But there are still no facts to back up the claims that the after effects are far from worth the benefits. Only opinions.
Lord_Zath
08-26-2005, 09:16 PM
yeah I'd recommend waiting until another major company like Unorthodox or RR-Racing comes out with one. Hell, maybe you should try contacting said companies and asking if they need a tester vehicle :)
MrTea
08-28-2005, 05:19 AM
Talked with UR about a year ago and they wouldn't touch it unless we had 50 lined up. gonna be a while for that.
Az, Walter has a 3 as well. that's why he started on the mazda stuff. he won't put the pulleys on ANY of his 2.3 duratecs....focus or mazda. the install is the most critical part, but even though it can be done, he believes the pulley is a bad idea for the longevity of the duratec. i really trust his background as he's had a couple things start with him and are now being produced by cosworth....who has every power adder for the duratec you can imagine now....but no pulley set?
What i'm saying is i don't recommend anyone trying to grab these as people in the industry avidly stay away from them on this engine. if a company comes along, as i said, running these things hard for a while without ill effect, cool. but let a reputable company do it, don't be the guinea pig since SR put it on theirs (who's only put down 118hp stock?) and say they got great benefits.
If you look at the older threads, i emailed SR as well as left a phone message that i would drive my lazy ass up to norcal to have them install these things for me, and i could to a write up on the install for those interested.....yeah, the don't return emails or phone messages anymore now for me.
AzMz3
08-29-2005, 12:16 AM
Talked with UR about a year ago and they wouldn't touch it unless we had 50 lined up. gonna be a while for that.
Az, Walter has a 3 as well. that's why he started on the mazda stuff. he won't put the pulleys on ANY of his 2.3 duratecs....focus or mazda. the install is the most critical part, but even though it can be done, he believes the pulley is a bad idea for the longevity of the duratec. i really trust his background as he's had a couple things start with him and are now being produced by cosworth....who has every power adder for the duratec you can imagine now....but no pulley set?
What i'm saying is i don't recommend anyone trying to grab these as people in the industry avidly stay away from them on this engine. if a company comes along, as i said, running these things hard for a while without ill effect, cool. but let a reputable company do it, don't be the guinea pig since SR put it on theirs (who's only put down 118hp stock?) and say they got great benefits.
If you look at the older threads, i emailed SR as well as left a phone message that i would drive my lazy ass up to norcal to have them install these things for me, and i could to a write up on the install for those interested.....yeah, the don't return emails or phone messages anymore now for me.
Walter has a 3? Hmmm I have talked to him many many times and offered him to use my car. He even offered me stuff if I could find a Mazda3 that was closer to him.
And he was even using my friends car in SD to make the intake.
I have heard him state that he doesn't like the pulley, but there is just no evidence that it will do any damage in the long run.
But I agree with what you are saying about SR. But I just haven't seen anything that states the UDP's are bad, especially when there are a few with many miles on them.
is going with a pulley set...regardless of who makes it.......not good if you are gonna be doing a turbo????????(help)
MrTea
09-09-2005, 12:56 PM
depends on the product and the engine. Focus Central says their pulleys are fine with FI, but not in combination with the BS delete. Marcy has initial #'s from his all motor setup with his BS delete as well as the pulley from FC from last year, but don't know how long that held together. the problem with the 3 is it uses multiple belts, so the FC pulley is of no use at this point anyhow. there are quite a few zetecs running the FC pulleys on their blown focus', but again, it's a different engine.
AzMz3
09-09-2005, 05:33 PM
depends on the product and the engine. Focus Central says their pulleys are fine with FI, but not in combination with the BS delete. Marcy has initial #'s from his all motor setup with his BS delete as well as the pulley from FC from last year, but don't know how long that held together. the problem with the 3 is it uses multiple belts, so the FC pulley is of no use at this point anyhow. there are quite a few zetecs running the FC pulleys on their blown focus', but again, it's a different engine.
There is really no reason not to run a UDP on a turbo car. There is no reason either to not run a BSD kit and a UDP on it either.
I'd like to hear why they think it is not ok to run both on a turbo car.
Herb
well this is a hard one because i get just as many good responses as i do negative.....i guess i will never know until i try huh?
AzMz3
09-10-2005, 12:26 AM
well this is a hard one because i get just as many good responses as i do negative.....i guess i will never know until i try huh?
Well pulleys dont have any bad effects on a turbo car. Supercharger is totally different. I wouldn't get them as I don't see them needed you will most likely have more power than you can use without them, if you get the set-up you want.
The balance shafts have nothing to do with either a SC or turbo, nor does it have any ill effects on the engine.
As stated by those that have it done it is more of a driveablitly mod than a Hp/tq mod.
So is there any bad things from running them...NO
Will it be worth it nope...IMO
MrTea
09-10-2005, 01:57 AM
in regards to the pulley/BS combo, they don't recommend them together, period. nothing to do with FI. Focus Central says the added vibration from lack of the BS would potentially bad for the udp on the car. but as i've said before, the pulley guys don't like the BS theory, and the BS guys aren't liking the pulley method...so just pick one if you wish.
But as he said, even if the pulley on a turbo duratec add (frees up as it may) 10hp or so, you won't be able to fully take advantage of it yet anyhow. though, for 129, it's an easy 10hp if it works out well. cause you know no matter what everyone would always like more HP!
Well i just placed my order through the company....so once i get them installed i will keep everyone posted on how they are doing and the overall price w/ install. if i can i will get it dynoed before and after but first i gotta find someone in my area.
AzMz3
09-10-2005, 02:08 PM
in regards to the pulley/BS combo, they don't recommend them together, period. nothing to do with FI. Focus Central says the added vibration from lack of the BS would potentially bad for the udp on the car. but as i've said before, the pulley guys don't like the BS theory, and the BS guys aren't liking the pulley method...so just pick one if you wish.
But as he said, even if the pulley on a turbo duratec add (frees up as it may) 10hp or so, you won't be able to fully take advantage of it yet anyhow. though, for 129, it's an easy 10hp if it works out well. cause you know no matter what everyone would always like more HP!
Sounds as if they don't understand the BS. The Balance shafts have nothing to do with internal engine vibration, so I just can't see their reasoning having any truth to it.
That is like saying stiffer engine mounts and a UDP would not go together.
And there are duratecs running the BSD, UDP and stiffer engine mounts and there is still no facts/proof that it is bad.
Just alot of opinions.
But as I said I would not run a UDP on a turbo car for the fact that it is just money wasted. IMO
With all of the upgrades you state you are going to get you could easily turn up the boost a run 400whp, will you see a difference of the said 10whp from the UDP nope. But your pocket will.
MrTea
09-10-2005, 09:09 PM
only reason i'm doing it is to make sure it fits. there aren't many people that are willing to test stuff on their cars...i don't mind. i asked around and found 1 person that was a maybe if they could see someone else do it first...but i don't have that.
all i do is talk to companies about making stuff for the 6 (and sometimes the 3) and try to get them someone to test fit to make sure all is good. sometimes they are out of reach so i offer to be the test if they send a piece...that's all.
so far walters the only one if seen with both BS and UDP, but as i said, he now says it's a bad idea? don't know why, but as of 2 months ago thats where he stood on it. the people who make the pulley say not to as well, so i would take caution going against what the maker of the products says.
AzMz3
09-10-2005, 10:32 PM
only reason i'm doing it is to make sure it fits. there aren't many people that are willing to test stuff on their cars...i don't mind. i asked around and found 1 person that was a maybe if they could see someone else do it first...but i don't have that.
all i do is talk to companies about making stuff for the 6 (and sometimes the 3) and try to get them someone to test fit to make sure all is good. sometimes they are out of reach so i offer to be the test if they send a piece...that's all.
so far walters the only one if seen with both BS and UDP, but as i said, he now says it's a bad idea? don't know why, but as of 2 months ago thats where he stood on it. the people who make the pulley say not to as well, so i would take caution going against what the maker of the products says.
I have heard why he states he doesn't like the UDP, but it has nothing to do with it not working with the BSD. It has alot to do with the installation of the udp.
And the are many with the BSD and UDP.
There is just no rational reason for it not working with the BSD.
I understand what you are doing, but the last thing we need is rumors and opinions being spread around as fact!
I have talked to Walter many times and it is sad that he is not looking to work with the Mazda's any more. I do know he has his plate full with just the Focus stuff.
MrTea
09-11-2005, 01:28 AM
I have yet to find 1 person other than Walter with the combo on the duratec? though the only focus forum i follow is focaljet, so maybe they are on other forums?
As far as spreading "rumors", all i have said is what the companies tell me? i haven't said, "it'll break" "don't do it or you'll blow your engine", hell i haven't even said "don't do it". All i have said is what Walter from Marcy Motorsports, Ricardo from F2 Focus, and Dave from Focus Central have told me. these are the tuners of the engine so far, so i'm trusting their word. maybe i/they are wrong, but i'm supplying the info i'm givin.
Here's what i got from Walter on 7/2
"I'm replacing a 2.3 in a Focus froma botched UDP install late this month. The UDP can NOT be used in conjunction with a BS Delete, the crank pulley is guaranteed to fail when they are combined. I have 3 broken pulleys as proof. Bad mod, stay away.
A better design in the future may prove me wrong, but until then, you are warned.
..I'm not a "Mazda" guy. I have no first hand experience with the Mazda 6. From pictures, I know they will NOT fit the 3. Use it at your own risk. The BS Del. will not harm the engine. The pulley eventually will, you just never know when. "
So how is this, thinking they are ok together?
Here's Dave's thoughts
"I also would not suggest doing the balance shaft removal in conjunction with the pullies. The vibrations will increase and could cause the bolts on the crank pulley to work loose causing serious problems. There are no HP gains from the balance shaft removal. If anything it has a negative effect due to the greatly increased vibrations. If you want an example, imagine your Mazda6 or 3 running like a Zetec equipped Focus. Yuck!!!"
Ricardo is a bit more optimistic, talking about having his own pulley out in the near future.
take it for what it is, i'm stating what i hear, not spreading rumors
thanks for all the info guys...like i said....I will see how they come out and i will keep everyone posted on any HP gains/ problems etc... that i experience.
(uhm) BTW what is a Bal Shaft Del??????? sorry if i sound (braindead i just don't know
AzMz3
09-11-2005, 02:41 AM
Here's what i got from Walter on 7/2
"I'm replacing a 2.3 in a Focus froma botched UDP install late this month. The UDP can NOT be used in conjunction with a BS Delete, the crank pulley is guaranteed to fail when they are combined. I have 3 broken pulleys as proof. Bad mod, stay away.
A better design in the future may prove me wrong, but until then, you are warned.
..I'm not a "Mazda" guy. I have no first hand experience with the Mazda 6. From pictures, I know they will NOT fit the 3. Use it at your own risk. The BS Del. will not harm the engine. The pulley eventually will, you just never know when. "
So how is this, thinking they are ok together?
Here's Dave's thoughts
"I also would not suggest doing the balance shaft removal in conjunction with the pullies. The vibrations will increase and could cause the bolts on the crank pulley to work loose causing serious problems. There are no HP gains from the balance shaft removal. If anything it has a negative effect due to the greatly increased vibrations. If you want an example, imagine your Mazda6 or 3 running like a Zetec equipped Focus. Yuck!!!"
Ricardo is a bit more optimistic, talking about having his own pulley out in the near future.
take it for what it is, i'm stating what i hear, not spreading rumors
It is all speculation, with no merit. I find it funny how Marcy claims there are not added vibrations to the engine from the BSD, yet from what you post Focus Central claims there is.
Also funny how Walter got a 3whp and 3wtq gain from the BSD.
And yes all of the failures were from bad installs and a UDP coming loose. But was the UDP coming loose due to the BSD???? How could one state this, if anything I would say that was a bad install too.
And I had a Zetec Focus and automatic one at that with UDP and stiffer mounts and it was not that bad and the BSD on the Mazda3 is no where near that. You can't even tell it was done as far as vibration.
Ricardo being optimistic is one way of putting it, I would say he is a good tuner that likes to go against the grain....and I say that in a good way.
So once agian, I have nothing against you at all.
But it just sounds as if they are feeding you a bunch of bull. As that is definately not what they are stating on Focaljet or the other forums.
Everyone is against the UDP because of the detail it takes to install it.
And you can see by Marcy's choice to pull on the Turbo kits that he does not favor mods that bring you close to destroying an engine wherethere it be bad install or mis-use.
As I have said I have talked to Walter many times when I was trying to get him to make stuff for the Mazda3 and he has his own views on certain things.
Just ask him about removing the cats!
Anyway enjoy that boost and that BOV is making me very very anxious...thanks for the vids.
Herb
just recieved the pulleys from SRmotorsports. they look like awesome quality. so i will be havin them installed this week and i will keep ya posted on how they do
MrTea
09-14-2005, 11:38 PM
i put my balance shaft back in today and should get the FC crank pulley tomorrow afternoon as long as i catch the driver. how many pulleys in the SR kit? i know you have the option on a few, so wondering which ones you went with. i know it's a lot, but maybe try a before and after dyno as well to help people out?
They came with 3. yea as long as i can find someone to do the dyno out here.
AzMz3
09-15-2005, 01:47 AM
They came with 3. yea as long as i can find someone to do the dyno out here.
Did they come with any alignment tools? If not I would highly recommend them. The 2 most important details that are overlooked is making sure everything is always DTC and the crank pully is properly installed and torqued.
no but it says something about them in the instructions...then again...wouldn't the shop that is putting them in have those anyways???
goldwing2000
09-15-2005, 10:40 AM
Not necessarily. Unless they've worked on a Mazda3 or Mazda6, they probably won't have the proper tools.
It's not a normal installation.
wel in that case where could i find some?
goldwing2000
09-15-2005, 11:46 AM
From the dealer. Maybe someplace online.
MrTea
09-15-2005, 02:39 PM
again, not on a 3, but the 2 local focus guys i talked to with it both ended up getting the 1 piece they needed from autozone. but i belive both of them had a tool already to find TDC on cyl #1 and a puller. so they just needed the screw to lock the pulley in place while they worked on the bolt.
But one of the guys said that air tools is a must for the install. which means i'll be driving to a friends house first and letting it cool off, or trying to get a compressor over here for the day. we'll see. the SR pulleys do look really nice though, gotta give em that.
ok so i got my before dyno done.......
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122023
once i get the pulleys installed i will dyno it agin to show gains
ok i will be getting them done and dynoed tomorrow morning so i will post all new stuff tomorrow night!!!
AzMz3
09-22-2005, 10:41 PM
ok i will be getting them done and dynoed tomorrow morning so i will post all new stuff tomorrow night!!!
Make sure they know what they are doing and that the engine is a DTC at all times when removing that pulley. And also make sure they tighten it up properly.
There is also a note that the pulley bolt needs to be replaced after it is removed. You might want to look into that too.
where did u c that @?? and yes they do.
AzMz3
09-23-2005, 12:24 AM
where did u c that @?? and yes they do.
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/mazda3/bulletins_index.html (TSB)
Seen it the other day. You could probally get away with it....but I wouldn't chance it.
thats says it applies only to manual models...if i read the right one..i think i did
AzMz3
09-23-2005, 03:02 AM
thats says it applies only to manual models...if i read the right one..i think i did
It says "workshop manual" so yes you read it wrong. Besides it is the same part for both the manual and the auto 2.0L and 2.3L
MrTea
09-23-2005, 03:31 AM
that was thrown around the focus forums as well for safety sake. the 2 local guys didn't choose to go that route. it was said to make sure the engine (bolt) is completely cooled down before doing the change, as when at temp the bolt can tend to stip due to the high tq spec on them. i believe my manual says ~75lbs and then another ~90deg turn. if you don't go with the new bolt, make sure the engine is cooled down well to be safe.
i will tell them that but im pretty sure they would take every precaution
AzMz3
09-23-2005, 04:12 AM
i will tell them that but im pretty sure they would take every precaution
Good...just stay on top of it and let us know how it goes.
goldwing2000
09-23-2005, 09:09 AM
Make sure they know what they are doing and that the engine is a DTC at all times when removing that pulley.
I think you mean TDC, which is the acronym for Top Dead Center.
DTC is the acronym for Diagnostic Trouble Code.
AzMz3
09-23-2005, 07:55 PM
I think you mean TDC, which is the acronym for Top Dead Center.
DTC is the acronym for Diagnostic Trouble Code.
Yes Sir you are correct, my mistake.
ok so i got them put in...but unfortunatley the dyno guy was off today so igotta wait til next tuesday to do it....but i do feel a big difference in the 4000-5000rpm range. once i get it dynoed i will post the results!
tsunami
09-23-2005, 10:50 PM
how long, and how much was the install? (assuming you paid for it) and good luck with it man... very interested in the dyno results...
Brian MP5T
09-23-2005, 10:56 PM
How Will the VVT react to this Timing Gear Shit..
goldwing2000
09-23-2005, 11:19 PM
Pulleys don't have anything to do with valve timing. The only thing that can be affected is ignition timing.
how long, and how much was the install? (assuming you paid for it) and good luck with it man... very interested in the dyno results...
well they charge $60 an hour and i paid $80...so 1hr 20min, yea i most def will post the info
tsunami
10-03-2005, 05:25 PM
(bump) for dyno update information.... or somethin....
Brian MP5T
10-03-2005, 05:51 PM
Pulleys don't have anything to do with valve timing. The only thing that can be affected is ignition timing.
Like Fuck... By Swapping the "Timing" you are adjusting when the lobes open the valves...
(bump) for dyno update information.... or somethin....
hey sorry i am getting the dyno done this week...the other guy that i had do my 1st one hasn't called me back or anything so fuck him but yea as soon as i get the chance this week i will post it up...sorry...they are doing great though!!
tsunami
10-03-2005, 06:44 PM
cool.... thanks man....
Libra
10-03-2005, 07:02 PM
I can't wait to see the dyno sheets from this... I put in an app for a second job today so I can try to get out of debt and afford these parts... lol.
tsunami
10-03-2005, 09:50 PM
doin what? i am on the prowl for a second job myself for just the same reason... hahaha.. its a damn addiction!!
cside4life
11-04-2005, 04:38 PM
hey sorry i am getting the dyno done this week...the other guy that i had do my 1st one hasn't called me back or anything so fuck him but yea as soon as i get the chance this week i will post it up...sorry...they are doing great though!!
any luck getting it dynoed again?
any luck getting it dynoed again?
i wish...i have a premature baby who has been in and out of the hospital the past 2 months so no chance yet...trust me i WILL post it up when i finally get to do it
malebastard
12-28-2005, 11:08 PM
So do you have a thorough review on this?
FLAMEBOY
12-29-2005, 12:18 AM
yes... we want review ^_^...
especially for us from ozzie.... we wouldnt want to ship items from the other half of the glob without making sure its ok :P
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