Rwd Msp?

[CHICO2003]

So we all know how well our cars handle... I don't even get the athletic feel in "better" cars. I recently read an article in MT comparing the differences between F/R/AWD Naturally they're biased towards RWD. So the question is... do you think our cars would even be better in the twisties with that kind of setup?

note: not actually thinking about a conversion. that would be insane.

[BOOSTR]

No. AWD was the winner in that article. But the MSP isn't exactly an handling slouch either. .89G is very respectable. What are you used to driving if you think the MSP has handling issues?

[SpeedBeaver]

Just try a Mazdaspeed Miata or an Rx-8.
I've try the rx-8 twice and as far the handling goes, it's pretty much in the same leage as MSPs. I've heard that MSM are handling beasts too. Just didn't have a chance to try one out.

[1moreMPH]

personally i think i'd fuck over the twisties with a RWD car...my back end would be slidin' all over the place. im sure i would just need to get used to it though. AWD rocks my world for sure.

[JOS3]

an rx-8 pulls a .91g's so yeah, it isnt much more than an msp

[CHICO2003]

No. AWD was the winner in that article. But the MSP isn't exactly an handling slouch either. .89G is very respectable. What are you used to driving if you think the MSP has handling issues?

I guess I interpruted the article differently... I'd reread it just to be sure but can't find it... it doesn't really matter I guess. One thing's for sure, aside from a select few (lambos come to mind) most supercars tend to be RWD. I'm not sure if that's saying something or not but...

so yeah, I've read the MSP actually scored better than .89 Where'd you get the idea that I think the MSP has handling issues anyway? lol this car's a fuckin beast in the twisties! I was just wondering if it would be EVEN better with RWD

[jersey_emt]

Just try a Mazdaspeed Miata or an Rx-8.
I've try the rx-8 twice and as far the handling goes, it's pretty much in the same leage as MSPs. I've heard that MSM are handling beasts too. Just didn't have a chance to try one out.

MSM handles wonderfully. Markedly better than the MSP.

RWD is fun!

[jeffmsp]

the msm is also a lighter car with around 52/48 weight ratio, i dont see the msp keeping up, there is also the cash difference to consider. btw is .89G the official handling Gs? Ive been telling people .9gs...

[1moreMPH]

RWD is fun!

werd!^^

[orphman]

MSM handles wonderfully. Markedly better than the MSP.

RWD is fun!


except when your doing over 90 and the back end is slideing away.. lol

cuz im soo stupid... wiht a MM....

[PhreakV]

One thing's for sure, aside from a select few (lambos come to mind) most supercars tend to be RWD. I'm not sure if that's saying something or not but...
obviously without talking to the designers its hard to say but I think the supercars are rwd simply because most supercars are best at high speeds and massive speed bursts.

the fwd is out because with the amount of power that those kinds of cars deliver the weight transfer is ungodly. the weight transfer for a rwd car is ultimately beneficial because it squats the rear wheels/tires forcing more traction...

awd isn't optimal because the high end suffers with drivetrain loss. the acceleration wont be there where supercars truly shine. plus the awd system would (generally) be more fragile than a simple rwd system. most supercars are tempermental enough without adding another point where the system can break. (obviously they can be designed to work out but its even more work for little gain... as they generally aren't in the snow or rally driven very often :D )

[WillisW555]

It depends how thing are set up. But a FWD car will have the tendancy to understeer... that's just the nature of trying to steer and put power down through the same wheels.

I don't consider grip to be how well the car handles. This just means the limits are higher. Handling depends on balance, transitions, compliance, and grip. IMO, the MSP has extremely good handling... especially for a FWD car.

[122 Vega]

, i dont see the msp keeping up, there is also the cash difference to consider.

What cash difference? MSMs are selling for around $18k out the door up here because they can't sell them.

Britt

[CHICO2003]

I've driven an MSM (msp sounds so much cooler) and, though I dig rwd (despite it's inpracticality during the winter) I feel the idea of it being a superior handling car is mostly due to the perception a lower, drop top vehicle creates. In looking at the skidpad rating (and reading the reviews) the two cars are comparable in the handling category.

While those cars are (for some) a steal at that pricepoint.... I for one couldn't/wouldn't give up my MSP for one... Mainly for reasons already stated. (which is probably why these cars aren't selling well) not a huge market for rwd, 2 seat roadsters... of that market that does exist, most of those types can afford more expensive types like the boxster and such.

One thing's for sure though... if I lived in a warmer climate, I would have pulled the trigger on that deal when it presented itself. dealership was going to give me what I owed (which was and still is a hell of a lot more than any other dealership) and sell me the MSM for $19k needing to be able to get to work in the winter was my only reason for not getting one. anybody modding those or what? bet those things have crazy potential.

[bradicus18]

RWD is fun I will admit. I never had a car with RWD but my old p/u was buttloads of fun just doing donuts!!! LOL

I will say this: If anyone ever watched the old Speed Challenge races with those damn Realtime Acura Integras, you would know that they used to run circles around the BMW 325s. I think some might have even been 330s. The last time I watched them, the Proteges were really starting to come up the ranks too. I wish I could still watch that kinda stuff. Now SPEED + NASCAR = (blarf) (yawn) (notcool) (pissed) :bs: (smash) (sleep) (moon)

[jeffmsp]

also having a motor with internals that can handle 400HP on pump gas and still start every morning is a nice benefit. POS FSDE

[MsP_DeViL]

Just try a Mazdaspeed Miata or an Rx-8.
I've try the rx-8 twice and as far the handling goes, it's pretty much in the same leage as MSPs. I've heard that MSM are handling beasts too. Just didn't have a chance to try one out.
I have there not all that I would put my MSP aginst a MSM anyday ... I love the msm but I would have to build the Sh.. outta that car if I bought it just dosent feel peppy enough for my likin!

[spacemonkey]

Upon moving the weight transfers back thus why a good sports cars are always Mid engine RWD and a true sports car is RWD. Tracktion is the issue on FWD car...so I never got why people drag race with FWD. Parts will help like a strong endlink where you can adjust the load on the rear sway bar but still its like going against nature/physics.

But FWD is not without some benifits in turns. I think it benifit is corner exit acceleration and grip going in..sometimes real bad (understeer). Thus a Good variable AWD system is always best like the ones found on LAmbo, EVO, Audis and GTR...where most of the time its RWD and engages the front wheels when tracktion is lost. But those systems are impractical on real race cars because of the weight and complexity involved.

The truth is FWD is econo it presents less drivetrain loss and cost the manufatuer less to make because its all in the front...no drive shafts or rear differential. It saves gas and roomier for back passengers. Hard to say it will handle better since this car was designed as FWD. But RWD will give it a sportier feel. RWD is fun and eventually you would want to move to a RWD car if you are passionate. But to Start off in FWD is not bad either since the behavier is similar to a AWD car too (understeer). RWD takes alot more skill to control.

Have you seen a FWD Ferrari?

[MsP_DeViL]

also having a motor with internals that can handle 400HP on pump gas and still start every morning is a nice benefit. POS FSDE
Agree with that ....

[REMillers]

Don't forget the biggest difference between FWD and RWD. FWD you are putting larger amounts of strain on the tires than RWD. The FWD has to not only apply power but also turn the car. A tire can only take so much..

FWD are mainly produce for some of the reasons above plus it is safer for most everyday drivers. Plow for tail....hmm

Plus don't try to think of how the MSP will be RWD. The car was never designed for it thus it isn't a simple what if it was RWD.

[spacemonkey]

Understeer is much safer in terms of everyday driving then oversteer. The lotus was redeisgned with mild understeer then its oversteer K-powered version (old elise). The top engineer at lotus said it was to accomidate all driving style and safety since they are significantly producing more then they did before. But there is a tire package option that will make the car sideways happy again. If you think abou tit its safer to understeer into a wall then to spin or slide onto on comming traffic and possibly get T-bones several times and hit the wall. hence why it takes more skill to drive a RWD car because it can behave so differntly with the slightest touch of the gas or breaks.

Hence you dont see alot of RWD Rear mounted engines like a Porsche GT2...and hence why the 911 is AWD.

But to answer the original question 50/50 weigh balance and RWD will always yeild better handling and sportier drive. If you can slide a bit more of the weight to the back it maybe even better. and its very hard to get 50/50 weight distribution on a FWD car. The more center the gravity of your car (twords the center and low) the better it is. F1 cars are pratically riding in front of there engines.

Here is a good article on the MP3 and handling

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=221

[Zhan]

The main reason understeer is "safer" than oversteer is because the average driver brakes on instinct in a dangerous situation, shifting the weight of the car off the rear wheels and thus making the car more likely to break loose its rear tires if the steering wheel is turned (which would be probable as the driver tries to swerve). In an understeering car this would be harder to cause.