GI/GB WOMP superchargers

[anarchistchiken]

If you've been following the "Official" WOMP thread, you know about all the supply problems we've been having. Fortunatly, 90% of the kinks have been worked out, and the blowers themselves are the only thing we still need to get a hold of.

After weeks of hoping and guessing and searching, I am happy to say that we finally know exactly what has to happen for this kit to get finished. Every piece of the puzzle is now firmly in place, except the big shiny keystone. What has to happen to get this done is as follows; Matty has to place an order for 5 new blowers with Powerdyne just to get them to accept the return of the current BD-11a's he still has in his possession. And for them to give us the discount we so badly want, and need, Matt has to basically buy 10 brand new blowers. Now, Matty has sunk a ton of his own money into this project, and he's going to put even more into it to buy a new blower for his own car as part of this 10-unit co-op agreement with Powerdyne. I will personally be fronting another chunk added to the return value of the BD-11a I've already technically bought. I can't speak for the other sponsored guys, but I'm hoping they can come up with the needed cash as well.

To sum it up, we have to have at least 5 more confirmed parties to buy these blowers. So what we need is 5-10 people who are willing to put a down payment on a kit so that we can get these suckers ordered (the price of the payment will be dependent on the number of people who want to get involved). I know the reservations that go along with this, because this has been a long and ardeuous process to get everything running, but at this point we have everything ready to go! The assembly line is set to start running and we just need a little more money to kick it into high gear and get ths stuff done! If you're interested in getting your name on the list and helping us run the last mile, PM me or post up, and feel free to ask any questions or check out the official thread by clicking the link in my sig.

Here's the list right now
1. Matty P ----------------- paid
2. Miller (anarchistchiken) --- paid
3. Christian (SilverBulletES) -- paid
4. Ian (rism) ---------------- paid
5. Steve (Nutari) ------------ paid
6. Nate --------------------- paid
7. Timmy (crushedbumper28) -paid
8. Scotty ------------------- paid

9.
10.

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

so just a question...to "get in" how much would the cost be? do you have any rough estimates?

[supa saiyan pr5]

(werd)


Jeremy

[bigj884]

whats the buy in price as asked above......and to make sure we just have to put down a deposit......and then pay the rest off......

so if thats true when would the balance need to be paid????

[dcbeggs]

I'm with everyone else, how much are we looking at here?

[Prodigy]

The deposit to order the supercharger head units is $1000.
This will guarantee that your blower will be made and will come with a 2yr warranty.
The rest of the money will be due shortly after but NO'ONE will get a blower without a deposit.
Matty basically has to buy 10 blowers at once to get any made at all.
If you put the $1000 down (Matty's cost on the blowers) you are promised a kit....the remainder will most likely be another $1999.
This may be the ONLY chance to get this kit. I don't know if Matty will get another GB of 10 buyers or how long it would take.... so I'd jump on it if you're interested.
You can at any time pay the full price and Matty will start your kit immediately upon getting the 10 blowers orders.

[SIBalla23]

So will this be the only time we can order a womp sc, or this would be the only gb for one?

[Prodigy]

So will this be the only time we can order a womp sc, or this would be the only gb for one?
It may be the last/only GB.

[SIBalla23]

O ok, I want to get this sc kit soo bad but i dont have the money for it right now. If anything by next summer I'll just pay the full price for the kit.

[Prodigy]

The $1000 is only a deposit to have a blower made for you. It's not the cost of the kit. If you're interested in doing this but don't have all the money upfront this is the only way to ensure you'll get a blower when you DO get the money.

[Captain KRM P5]

O ok, I want to get this sc kit soo bad but i dont have the money for it right now. If anything by next summer I'll just pay the full price for the kit.

the kit may not be produced after this run of ten kits. now may very well be the only time to buy.

[SIBalla23]

O damn, are you serious. I know I'm not the only one who wants this sc kit but doesn't have the cash for it yet. I really hope this kit is still around by next yr.

[Captain KRM P5]

O damn, are you serious. I know I'm not the only one who wants this sc kit but doesn't have the cash for it yet. I really hope this kit is still around by next yr.

trust me, if you can find a way to get in on it now, do it without hesitation. i assure you the urgency is very real here.

[SIBalla23]

If I had the 1000 right now I would put a deposit down already. I been following the info for this kit for awhile now. Damm, can i sell a kidney, I want cash for this soooo bad.

[FunkyBuddha]

^^ Take out a loan. Seriously..if you can't afford it now..don't even bother posting sob stories.

[anarchistchiken]

I want to make something clear, just so there's no confusion. The $1,000 we need is to buy the blower. And just in case you want you're wondering what kind of deal this is, the retail cost of a new BD-600 from Powerdyen is around $2,200. If you put up the $1000, you will own a brand new Powerdyne BD-600 supercharger with a 2 year warranty. Now, as it's intended, you will then pay the rest of the cost for the kit and have everything you need to supercharge your protege, but you don't neccesarily HAVE to do that.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about it. You pay the $1,000 we need to get the blower made, then we can just send you the blower instead of the entire kit. Then you can sell it for a profit or basically do whatever you want with it.

Also, if anyone has a friend with a Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, etc. and you think they might be interested in buying a Powerdyne kit, let them know about this. Powerdyne needs Matty to but 10 blowers, but if he buys a full kit that Powersyne makes, they will count the full cost of the kit towards Matty's purchase, which lets us get up to the required amount faster, and everyone gets their blowers made faster.

Again, if anyone has ANY questions about this offer, please PM myself or Ken (Captain KRM P5) and get them answered.

[bigj884]

whats the deadline on to have the money by???


and if this the only time you will be able to buy the SC that sucks.....and its just lame......all that fuss and all the crap just for 1 Gb worth of product.....

i thought this would of been something like MAM or HIboost....where its available for more than a week....

[anarchistchiken]

The GB is going to be open for as long as it takes to get the people signed up that we needed. And I agree, it does suck, but Matty is not a fully acredited and established shop like HiBoost and MAM are, he's a private citizen who is trying to do this basically because he wants to make people happy, as strange as that sounds. The profit he is making form these kits is a joke relative to how much time and energy he's put into this.

If it was up to me, We would be able to order each blower individually whenever one was needed, but since it's now a limited production item, that's no longer possible.

BTW, it's not going to be just 1 GB. If there is enough interest, there will be more GB's, the big catch is that we have to order these in bulks of 10 at a time, so...

[wicked]

If I wasn't such a turbo nut,I would be down for this,I have never owned a supercharged car,built them,but never owned one.


well,bump for a very honorable deal.

[Antoine]

Let me make this clear: No money is to be exchanged, payments made or DOWNPAYMENTS collected UNLESS KEN (Captain KRM P5 (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/member.php?u=1193)) is the Authorized Vendor taking care of all WOMP dealings!

[Captain KRM P5]

Let me make this clear: No money is to be exchanged, payments made or DOWNPAYMENTS collected UNLESS KEN (Captain KRM P5 (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/member.php?u=1193)) is the Authorized Vendor taking care of all WOMP dealings!

That is the agreement with the forums, and I will abide by it

[dcbeggs]

I suppose this is a stupid question but, if its a limited production and a 2 yr warranty, are parts available for it if something happens to it after those 2 years?

[SilverBulletES]

I suppose this is a stupid question but, if its a limited production and a 2 yr warranty, are parts available for it if something happens to it after those 2 years?

That was my major question as well.... will the Powerdyne definitely be rebuildable down the road (after 2 years) for a reasonable price?

If so, I'm seriously in. {Insert quick sob story} I'm about to get a house mortgage{/sob story off} but I'm DEFINITELY in for dropping a grand on this now if only for the investment opportunity (though I do have a huge woody for WOMP) if I can make a couple hundred bucks selling this in 6 months should I be tight on money and/or just find a Miata to play with.

2nd question: does the warranty start from the time you install the SC or from the time you purchase?

3rd lame question: Will we be able to knock 250 off the kit if we already have an OBX header?

I'll be in contact with you Ken and thanks for the GT-Spec strut bar-- it arrived and it's great.

[JohnnieblackDX]

Hey Silver Bullet call Matty about the supercharger!

[SilverBulletES]

Hey Silver Bullet call Matty about the supercharger!

thnaks brotha.

[SilverBulletES]

*BUMP*

I'm in. The check goes out this week.
Wasn't thinking last year I'd be among the first 5 supercharged Proteges ever... but why the hell not?

C'mon people. Feel the hot n heavy WOMP love!

[nate0123]

*BUMP*

I'm in. The check goes out this week.
Wasn't thinking last year I'd be among the first 5 supercharged Proteges ever... but why the hell not?

C'mon people. Feel the hot n heavy WOMP love!(rockon)

[SilverBulletES]

*BUMP*

Just think of it this way.... it's a payment plan. Put down $1000 now. Pay the rest later. You know you're just going to blow your extra cash on stupid stuff you don't need. I would. And then I'd be crying myself to sleep saying.... why the hookers? why the blow? why can't I buy a beautiful supercharger I can enjoy everyday??? So starve a little this month. And then starve a little more a few months down the line.... and then you'll essentially own an amazing new motor for your car.

If you're chicken (afraid of the unforseeable... and I'm not saying I'm not... lost job, wreck, ETC, the bad shit that sometimes happens in life), you still end up ahead! You should be able to sell this brand new SC for 1400-1800 no problem. At the minimum you'll make a few hundred dollars down the road. Probably as easy as pitching it to a forum member. Show me a better investment and I'll throw money towards it.

[khaosman]

I want to keep my AC :( Even though it I only use it on the interstate. But still. MUST RESIST TEMPTATION

[SilverBulletES]

I want to keep my AC :( Even though it I only use it on the interstate. But still. MUST RESIST TEMPTATION

Here look.... here's what I plan to do. If I get a girlfriend again sometime soon.... and I don't have a Miata with A/C then....or if you have a wife....just take the f'n thing out from July 1-Auguest 31. Put your A/C back in. Recharge it. (?100 bucks) It'll only take a couple hours. :D Basically, just find an understanding gf with her own car and you won't have to worry about it.

Seriously, as f'n hot as Georgia can get.... when I commute, I really hardly use my A/C. Even in July, in the morning, windows cracked, it's cool.... just fine. In the evening coming home, windows cracked, just fine. I think everyone's who's ridden in Matty's P5 could care less about A/C. :)

[khaosman]

Heh, true true... this is really tempting. When is Matty going to be allowed back?

I'm curious and I'm sure other people are too... how much more money in addition to the $1k? What all do you get? How much power has the 6.5psi version been putting down? There is info in the big ass WOMP thread, but that thread is HUGE and I'm sure things have changed since then.

[anarchistchiken]

Heh, true true... this is really tempting. When is Matty going to be allowed back?

I'm curious and I'm sure other people are too... how much more money in addition to the $1k? What all do you get? How much power has the 6.5psi version been putting down? There is info in the big ass WOMP thread, but that thread is HUGE and I'm sure things have changed since then.

I'll get Ken to PM you about the price since antoine doesn't want anyone else talking about it...

The current setup makes 4.5 PSI and when we dynoed Mattys car totally untuned with horrible AF ratios, it made 158 WHP. We're hoping and assuming that a car with proper tuning will make close to 180 WHP. I believe the first page of the Official thread has been kept updated, but I'll ask Ken to update it next time I talk to him if it's not current.

[Rism]

I'll get Ken to PM you about the price since antoine doesn't want anyone else talking about it...

The current setup makes 4.5 PSI and when we dynoed Mattys car totally untuned with horrible AF ratios, it made 158 WHP. We're hoping and assuming that a car with proper tuning will make close to 180 WHP. I believe the first page of the Official thread has been kept updated, but I'll ask Ken to update it next time I talk to him if it's not current.

Thats 158whp up from a baseline of 98whp.

[bigj884]

what about the 7psi belt kit.....or wasnt there talk of a 6psi....or higher.....any info on that......or did they just decided to keep it with 4.5psi??

anyway to get a 5psi???

[Rism]

there will be higher psi pulleys after mattys gets some time to get back to testing his kit. But if your that determined to have higher psi you can always got oa local machinist and get him to make a smaller pulley for you.

[anarchistchiken]

You can get a different pulley made, but you'd have to do all your own legwork such as calculations and finding a shop to do it, etc. But I'm sure we'd all be very interested to see what kind of nubers it would put down with a smaller pulley.

The plan right now is for me to build a spare motor over the next 6 months-1 year, then when it's done and I have full ECU, we'll start cranking up the boost and see how the car responds. Like I said, that's a ways away, but I'm looking foward to it.

[CGCG04]

ok just to be clear... this would be for a brand new 600 blower, which technically aren't in production anymore? and it would be only 1000 bucks if i wanted to just get the blower and not the entire kit?

[anarchistchiken]

yup, you pay the $1,000, you own the blower, no further obligation needed.

[SilverBulletES]

yup, you pay the $1,000, you own the blower, no further obligation needed.

My check's going out tomorrow.

*BUMP*

[nate0123]

My check's going out tomorrow.

*BUMP*(yippy)

[Protege52003]

ok just to be clear... this would be for a brand new 600 blower, which technically aren't in production anymore? and it would be only 1000 bucks if i wanted to just get the blower and not the entire kit?

work on your own custom kit????

[anarchistchiken]

Bump. So far the list is

anarchistchiken
nate0123
Nutari
Rism
Super Matty P
SilverBulletES
crushedbumper28

That's 7/10 right there! On the prospective list we have;
tdrp mp3sc
dcbeggs
9ringer
Prodigy

We're almost there, but we sill need a few more! The faster the list is finished, the faster we get the blowers built.

[jc2904]

u said Matty's car was untuned and putting out 158hp... that was several months ago... is there any update on the product in Matty's car? Have you worked out the kinks if there are any? Just would like an update on the latest performance of your product.. thanks that would be most appreciated......

[anarchistchiken]

Well unfortunatly before he could get the tuning right, Matty's rear motor mount destroyed itself at the drag strip, causing a pretty significant amount of damage to his car. After that happened, he sold the bd-600 he was using because he was planning on upgrading to the bd-11a when the car was repaired, but the BD-11a didn't fit.

Since he sold his blower, he hasn't been able to re-test or tune anything, but as soon as we get the 10 people we needto sign up for this purchase form Powerdyne, he and I will both be testing our kits. Although when Matty gets everything back together, he willl be putting out significanly more than me since he now has Mazdaspeed cams and will soon have a fully ported and polished head.

[jc2904]

thanks big guy

[anarchistchiken]

Bump

[SilverBulletES]

Bump

Missed your fellow Slotege presence at the meet Miller. I was only only a new set of decent brake pads away from keeping up with Mazdaspeeds in the twisties. Yeah, I'll keep telling myself that.

Gave Matty my check for the blower today.

Looks like if people don't hurry up they're going to miss out on this opportunity/investment. But wait..... THERE'S MORE!

C'mon people... just a few more right?

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah man sorry I couldn't make it out. I finally made it down from Florence a few hours ago (about 5) then I just hit my pillow hard. I got about 5 hours of sleep in the last 3 days, so I was out like a light as soon as I hit my pillow and just now woke up. Somebody better post some pictures up.

[noclue119]

*thread jack*
hahahahahha... u know getting left by a mile on a 10 min run is not really keeping up. Espically when the Mazdaspeeds are hitting 110-115 mph (in a 35 zone) and LX/ES proteges only hitting 90's that makes a big difference.

*end thread jack*

[Prodigy]

*thread jack*
hahahahahha... u know getting left by a mile on a 10 min run is not really keeping up. Espically when the Mazdaspeeds are hitting 110-115 mph (in a 35 zone) and LX/ES proteges only hitting 90's that makes a big difference.

*end thread jack*
I was hitting 105 or so on the straights. :)

[noclue119]

I was hitting 105 or so on the straights. :)


ya u were drafting the mazdaspeds ;) j/k

[protege02]

ya u were drafting the mazdaspeds ;) j/k

i kept up with u guys. n i went 110 a couple of times. n the fastest i went in a turn was 92 to 93ish. may i remind u, that's on stock 16's.

[SilverBulletES]

*thread jack*
hahahahahha... u know getting left by a mile on a 10 min run is not really keeping up. Espically when the Mazdaspeeds are hitting 110-115 mph (in a 35 zone) and LX/ES proteges only hitting 90's that makes a big difference.

*end thread jack*


I also hit 105 in the straights on the first run -- but then I saw the road bikers and thought "this isn't cool" and brought it down. But it was my aged stock brake pads with 34,000 miles scaring me more than anything else. (whip)

[Prodigy]

I also hit 105 in the straights on the first run -- but then I saw the road bikers and thought "this isn't cool" and brought it down. But it was my aged stock brake pads with 34,000 miles scaring me more than anything else. (whip)
yeah.. I slowed down to 35 when I saw the helment of one of the bikers over the hill..
Use your gears as brakes next time.. I only used my brakes to transfer weight.
It was fun as hell.. that's the fastest I've gone since I've had my license.. it was a nice time to open up.

[SilverBulletES]

yeah.. I slowed down to 35 when I saw the helment of one of the bikers over the hill..
Use your gears as brakes next time.. I only used my brakes to transfer weight.
It was fun as hell.. that's the fastest I've gone since I've had my license.. it was a nice time to open up.


Oh, believe me I used plenty of engine braking bee otch. (confused) ;)
I was living at the upper end of the tach.

OK I admit I'm just a pussy. (whip)

EDIT:
Whoa this thread has been jacked. Anyway-- pick up a bargain Powerdyne supercharger for 1000 whether you go WOMP or not... now.

[bonesmp5]

where is the list -- and what happens if you dont get 10 ?? does womp vanish or it just means it will be a while longer before its on the market ???

[Prodigy]

It won't vanish.
These MAY be the first/last kits made, so whoever fills in the other 3 spaces will be the only ones with the WOMP supercharger until another GB goes IF there is one.
1000 is CHEAP for the SC.. you could easily sell the supercharger and make a couple hundred off it.

[anarchistchiken]

He speaks truth.

[anarchistchiken]

Ok guys, despite the random off topic rambling on this page, we still have two spots available. The faster we get people signed up, the faster EVERYONE gets their blowers. I'd also like to remind everyone of a couple things.

1) Signing up for this GB does not mean you have to buy the WOMP. If you do take advantage of this deal, you will own a blower, no strings attached. You can then choose to buy the rest of the kit from Matty at a later date

2) This is not just for the BD-600 blower. Through Matty's relationship with Powerdyne, he can get you anything you want for a terrific deal, from their smallest products all the way up to full kits.

[SilverBulletES]

Yeah, don't wake up and cry when you missed out!

[SilverBulletES]

Mmmm.... smells like someone's about to get blown in here.

*BUMP*

[anarchistchiken]

Bump

[Crazee D]

hmmm...considering....

[SilverBulletES]

hmmm...considering....

Don't consider... just do it! :D

[Prodigy]

Somwone buy my drums! I want this blower!

[anarchistchiken]

GREAT NEWS GUYS!!!! Oh man I'm so excited right now! Matty has officially come through for us! Instead of returning the BD-11a blowers he had to Powerdyne, he decided to sell them on Ebay! He's already sold one and he's talking to the same guy who bought it about buying the other 3. If this goes through today or tommorow, we'll be giving powerdyne a call Monday morning and getting this shit ordered.

Guys, this is your ABSOLUTE LAST CHANCE to get in on this GB. There will be another, but god knows how long that will take. If you're seriously interested, contact me ASAP and let's work something out.

[khaosman]

Ennnnh... I want to buy. I'll sell blood and semen.

[SilverBulletES]

Yeehaw! Let's do this thing before I come to my senses about spending money I, by all rational thought, shouldn't!


Ennnnh... I want to buy. I'll sell blood and semen.

Actually that's Matty's preferred method of payment! I'll let you guess where he said to leave the deposit.

[anarchistchiken]

Ennnnh... I want to buy. I'll sell blood and semen.

Do what you gotta do man, we just want da muney. You can keep your methods of getting it to yourself, hahaha.

[Scotty878]

*BUMP* Because I just came in as #8 on the list and Matty is close to going ahead with just 8, so if you wanna be in the first and possibly only run, your gonna have to hurry!

[wwpms6]

i'm number 7!

[anarchistchiken]

bump

[damaster]

So no fix to get this and still keep AC? If I could keep my AC then I'd buy this.

[nate0123]

maybe a ghetto-rigged electric A/C? not worth the effort IMO

plus, how hot does it really get up there?

[nate0123]

I looked on weather.com (montreal) - the hottest it will be in the next 10 days is 82

no need for A/C

[damaster]

You can't just check the forecast for the next 10 days and deem an air conditioner unnecessary. We're nearing September, and thus the Fall season, during which air conditioning is rarely necessary. However, the summer is a different story: all of May/June/July it was 30+ degrees celsius. It gets very, very hot in the summer in Montreal and very, very cold in the winter. Other Montrealers on the board will likely vouch for that.
I looked on weather.com (montreal) - the hottest it will be in the next 10 days is 82

no need for A/C

[nate0123]

it was intended as an off-the-cuff remark, not well-documented research

of course if you want the A/C, you should keep it

I'd just rather have a S/C than A/C

[RyanJayG]

ROFL, I've been to montreal in the summer... hot? you've got to be kidding me....

it routinely gets above 38C (up to 42C) for weeks at a time with 80-100% humidity in Tulsa, OK

last summer in Montreal working outside in the sun was a vacation from the heat of home.

but that being said, I'm still an AC whore... I gotta have the dehumidifier effect more than the cold air.

[wicked]

You can't just check the forecast for the next 10 days and deem an air conditioner unnecessary. We're nearing September, and thus the Fall season, during which air conditioning is rarely necessary. However, the summer is a different story: all of May/June/July it was 30+ degrees celsius. It gets very, very hot in the summer in Montreal and very, very cold in the winter. Other Montrealers on the board will likely vouch for that.


sure A/C is an important thing in hotter places,but you gotta think of it like witch would you rather have,a protege with a blower,or a protege that blows cold air in the cab?

[damaster]

sure A/C is an important thing in hotter places,but you gotta think of it like witch would you rather have,a protege with a blower,or a protege that blows cold air in the cab?a Protege with AC and turbo ;) Unless someone can really convince me why an S/C is better than a turbo option.

[Prodigy]

Fly down here and get a ride in Matty's p5.... you'll be convinced.

[Shadow102]

a Protege with AC and turbo ;) Unless someone can really convince me why an S/C is better than a turbo option.

he was trapping 3-4mph faster than MSP's in the 1/8th mi with 2lbs less of boost...had his p5 had a LSD and not been in the experimental tuning phase he prolly woulda put down some better times also

[nate0123]

linear power delivery, not a dumping of power at ~3k

feels like a bigger engine, not a turbo car

[SilverBulletES]

I live in Hotlanta and it's only going to be uncomfortable for 6 weeks a year tops from 11AM-4PM. You're probably working during those hours anyway. Then it's not so bad at all. With windows down and a wife beater on, you'll survive. S/C > A/C

[anarchistchiken]

Well if you really want AC there's no way to change your mind, but just think about this for a second.

I weigh 300lbs, 6'4". I am, by all accounts, a massive guy. I live in Birmingham, Alabama where summer temperatures routinely reach 100 degrees F, 100% or more humidity, with a heat index very commonly over 115-120 degrees. Life without AC is not that bad. It gets a little uncomfortable some times when you're sitting in traffic at noon, but how often does that realy happen? You're sitting in shade all the time, you have a 30+ mph breeze most of the time and if it really starts bothering oyu, just buy a little $2 fan from walmart.

I'm just letting you know that it's not as bad as it seems it would be. Just drive around for the next couple days with your windows down and the AC off. You'll be pleasently suprised by how bearable it it.

[damaster]

Well if you really want AC there's no way to change your mind, but just think about this for a second.

I weigh 300lbs, 6'4". I am, by all accounts, a massive guy. I live in Birmingham, Alabama where summer temperatures routinely reach 100 degrees F, 100% or more humidity, with a heat index very commonly over 115-120 degrees. Life without AC is not that bad. It gets a little uncomfortable some times when you're sitting in traffic at noon, but how often does that realy happen? You're sitting in shade all the time, you have a 30+ mph breeze most of the time and if it really starts bothering oyu, just buy a little $2 fan from walmart.

I'm just letting you know that it's not as bad as it seems it would be. Just drive around for the next couple days with your windows down and the AC off. You'll be pleasently suprised by how bearable it it.
Actually to tell you the truth, I barely use A/C myself and often make do with the windows down and the moonroof open. The problem is when I have passengers in the car (family, friends, etc.) that often complain about the heat.

[nate0123]

I'm ok with telling them "too bad" :D

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah I'm with Nate. I tell them to get over it. My uncle actually borrowed my car one day and came home two hours later bitching and moaning about the AC not working. My response "You're gonna borrow my car and then bitch at me because you aren't happy with it? Go drive your mini van"