Heel/toe in the MSP? Maybe MP3?

[AutoXer]

Here's a question for those lucky enough to already have their MSP's, and maybe MP3 owners if the pedal setup is the same:

How are the pedals for heel/toe downshifting? Are the brake and gas close together? Are the pedal heights agreeable?

Ok, maybe more than "a question"...

[ARD MP5]

Dude, I tried to heel toe in the P5 the other day and my heel couldn't even find the throttle. Needs a new pedal set or a spacer on the pad.

My RX7 is so setup for heel/toe, but the P5 isn't IMO. PITA.

[AutoXer]

Hmm. Perhaps things are different with the sparco pedals on the MSP?

[dpmmsp]

I find the pedals are great in the msp for heel/toe action .... but I have pretty big feet. I tend to put my foot in the middle of the pedals and lean it left or right, rather than actually using my heel and my toe. I was driving today in my BIG winter boots .... huge things really ..... and it was no problem, so small feet may suffer. Ask Limited Edition .... his feet were the size of my hands!!:D

When I test drove the wrx, I had problems with the pedals because they were too close ..... twice in the test drive, while going to do a fast shift (got to impress the dealer ... why do we do these dumb things?) I pushed the clutch and the brake at the same time with one foot. Needless to say they weren't very good shifts, but they did give the seatbelts a work out.

[saided18]

i'm sorry but this might sounds stupid but what is heel/toe?
please don't rag on me but i never heard of that.

[rowan]

I didn't have a problem heel-toeing in the P5. But it did take a while to get used to the angle your foot needs to be at to hit brake and throttle. Kinda like -- \ --
The MP3 is slightly better .. I'm sure the Mazdaspeed is better still but there are other pedal sets that should be even better for heel&toe than the Sparco ones that come with the Madaspeed.

[Limited Edition]

Originally posted by dpmmsp
Ask Limited Edition .... his feet were the size of my hands!!:D



dpmmsp, How would you know that your hands is as big as my feet? Unless you happen to be checking out my feet on our meet? :eek:

I've never tried heel and toe in the MSP and i usually never do it. I just blip the throttle to rev-match during most downshifts to smooth out the lowered gear. I know this way is slower, but this is how i got used to driving manual cars. Whenever i try to heel 'n toe, i have to think about it before i do, which is a lot slower than my usual 'blip' the throttle.

Heel and toe is faster if you have a lot of practice to it, but it takes a long time with a lot of practice to master this. Most people use this technique on track or race anyway. No need to take it out on the street. Just my thoughts. :)

[rowan]

if you're blipping the throttle when downshifting then you are already heel-toeing... unless you're not braking while doing it :)

[slug420]

explain!

[AutoXer]

Heel/toe works like this:

"The goal is to downshift without upsetting the balance of the car. ie. matching revs while downshifting.

This requires you to
1) Brake
2) Blip the throttle to match the revs of the engine so that when you are in the lower gear that the rpms are appropriate for that speed, keep in mind you are slowing down while this is happening.
3) Downshift

While braking with the toe/ball of your right foot, you shift push the clutch in. Now blip the throttle with the side of your right foot (heel, for me it is more the side of my right foot) and then slide the gear lever to the lower gear. While disengaging the clutch.

This should produce a seamless downshift, one you can do while entering a corner, or braking hard, and the car should not become unbalanced."

I borrowed this from another forum I'm on, rather than rewriting the same thing myself. Another way to think of it that makes more sense is Ball/Edge downshifting. You use the ball of your right foot on the brake, and the edge on the gas.

[AutoXer]

dpmmsp, I have fairly big feet myself. (13) So hopefully I'll also find the pedals good for heel/toe...

[dpmmsp]

AutoXer .... Those feet should work ..... damn I bet you can swim(rofl)

Great explanation of the heel/toe.

A couple of years ago I had one of those "one day racing" things in an open wheeled racer ... I think a Formula Ford ... really cool. After the classroom part when we first got on the track, the first thing they did was make sure everyone could do heel/toe. I guess they didn't want their cars spinning off in the corners. They had spotters at different corners with walkie talkies and they sent you around about 20 seconds apart so they could hear if you were doing it ok.

[slug420]

im a size 16.....bet i could heel toe a mack truck
:)

[Pro5OnSpeed]

i have found many times the heel toe to be very difficult in the protege. it can be done, and i can attest i have done it a few times, but trying to feel the throttle is a real bitch!

one more note, be careful, thats how the curb hit me.

[ARD MP5]

I wear size 8. lol. Forgot to mention that.

[ARD MP5]

Yeah,

Heel/toe = three actions at once: clutch, brake, and throttle

Double Cltuching = two actions: clutch and throttle, blipping/rev mathcing. Start here and then move to heel/toe to increase your entering and exiting speeds to a corner without upsetting the balance of the car or at least acheive a smooth weight transistion.

[AutoXer]

Hmm, it's always been my understanding that double clutching is a complete shift to neutral from whichever gear you're in, blipping the throttle and then a second shift from neutral to the lower gear. I thought it was done mainly in older cars, to protect the trannies/clutch assemblies.

I think what you're talking about is just rev-matching.

[SomaMP3]

this heel/toe shifting sounds interesting, but i'm pretty sure my feet aren't wide enough....i can see why it would take alot of practice

[Newf]

You can heel/toe in the MP3. The peddles in the MSP are even bigger so I can't see why you couldn't do it in a MSP either. And I'm a size 9.....stop laughing!

It's not true what they say about foot size ok

[Protege01MP3]

wasn't there another thread about this where every thing that was said in hear was already said??? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[saided18]

Originally posted by newf
You can heel/toe in the MP3. The peddles in the MSP are even bigger so I can't see why you couldn't do it in a MSP either. And I'm a size 9.....stop laughing!

It's not true what they say about foot size ok



(lol)

[Newf]

Protege01MP3: Yes there was

saided18: I said stop laughing...arrrrg :)

[rowan]

Originally posted by AutoXer
Hmm, it's always been my understanding that double clutching is a complete shift to neutral from whichever gear you're in, blipping the throttle and then a second shift from neutral to the lower gear. I thought it was done mainly in older cars, to protect the trannies/clutch assemblies.



Yeah that's what it is .. you often use double-clutching along with heel-toe though. If you do not have syncros then you will have to double-clutch to match the engine and transmission speeds, otherwise it is optional.

Heel-toe is a way to do rev-matching while braking :)

I'm sure there are a good number of threads about this on the forum .. there is also a good UK-based site that explains a bunch of performance driving techniques. Google is your friend.

[AutoXer]

Sorry if there was a specific thread about this already. I was not asking about heel/toe itself as I'm quite familiar with it, but its application in the MSP.

Since folks only very recently began to receive their MSP's, I'm surprised there has already been a thread about this.

[Protege01MP3]

no no no.. dont worry bout it man ;) we weren't raggin... and no.. the other thread wasn't about its application in the msp.. just heel/toe in general... ;)

[AutoXer]

Cool, then. :)

[dolphin]

I have no trouble heel/toeing in the MP3. It is nearly as easy as in my Miata.