Dual Valve-- Forge BOV/stock BPV How-To+ pics

[jeffmsp]

ok, well first ill explain. as most forge bov owners know, the valve can sometimes cause stallling and on the highway, leak at certain rpms (for me I could NEVER cruise going over 125 km/h 3.5krpm) causing the driver to use the right foot like a lightswitch, constantly accelerating and decelerating the car, while the whole time the damn thing keeps blowing off causing tons of hesitation and poor mileage. To help remedy this, I first picked up a 3 way connector. It has a 1" inner diameter.

Connect one end to the hardpipe, then the end pointing down to the stock BPV and the one pointing straight to the forge BOV. Next put a 3 way connector on you vacume source. Make sure to get the vac line as close as possible to the stock BPV. Then make yourself at least a 9" vac line going from the tri-connector to the forge BOV. The point of this is to get the stock BPV to activate slightly before the forge BOV. A slight delay in the BOV is desired here thats why we use at least 9" of vac line. After 12" of line, I noticed the turkey starting to come back, so that means the BOV is too delayed. It may differ slightly for you/ If you hook them up to their own vac sources then the forge will open and vent all the air before the BPV even has a chance to recirculate some of the air.

(if you think you are smart and try to just run a long hose to your normal forge BOV setup so that it just doesnt open as much you arent going to like the outcome lol the dual valve is needed)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/383000-383999/383561_102_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/383000-383999/383561_108_full.jpg

I dont have any installed pics cause I dont have a digi cam now cause of my ex g-friend, (fu) but i might be able to get one later in the week. until then, look at the pics and think what it would look like lol

Now let me just say that this isnt perfect. If you accelerate and let off a huge pisssssst and then dont touch the gas and let the rpms drop it will studder a bit, however not as much as having just the BOV by itself. Mine is yet to go under 300rpm, but im sure it could happen if I blew off like 3 times in a row trying to get it to stall. The major improvement that I have felt is on the highway. It feels very similar to the stock BPV only setup, but when you need the throttle responce, it doesnt lag like stock.

Anyways, try it out and let me know what you guys think.

TTYL, Jeff

[jeffmsp]

well after my 1.5 hour drive to work, I cant tell you that this setup is a real improvement over just the BOV. The car runs like it should....seems like a first for a msp ;) somebody else wioth a forge try it, you will be happy you did

[ND4MSP]

thx for the write up. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to do a multiple valve setup using a forge. I've got no hardpipes currently though. I really don't have any issues with mine, but your speed is way serious compared to mine. Peace

[jeffmsp]

oh and the vacume source that you tap for the BOV/BPV will have a impact on the length of hose used. car is still liking the dual setup, is there anyone with a forge that tried it?

[ND4MSP]

I would, but I am actually happy with the way she's running at the moment.

[FF Racer]

Possible to get an update on this? Maybe some installed pictures especially one of the 3 way connector... Thanx

[jeffmsp]

ill try and take a few pics tommorow. Ive been running just one or the other recently since I havent had alot of time to make things nice under the hood. This setup would be rendered obsolete by moving your maf to the IC to TB pipe BTW

[FF Racer]

How would you want to moove the MAF there? I would have to cut a part out of my cold pipe... Not too fond of that...

Also while were in the subject, I bought my valve used. What kind of maintenance should I bring to it?
And does your's make a slight turkey and then a slight swoosh shound?

[jeffmsp]

yep slight turk, then swoosh with the FMIC and pipes, lts more turk with stock pipes. As for maintenance, just lube it up when you get a chance. Ill try and get that pic for you, ive just been uber busy lately.

[FF Racer]

So to lube it, I'm guessing I should take it apart and just use a bit of regular motor oil? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ND4MSP]

yep slight turk, then swoosh with the FMIC and pipes, lts more turk with stock pipes. As for maintenance, just lube it up when you get a chance. Ill try and get that pic for you, ive just been uber busy lately.

Jeff, I started to take it apart a while back for lube but I felt like I was going to strip the first allen screw I touched. I just stopped. Are they tuff to get off?Maybe I was just paranoid. Bump on the motor oil question. I can't remember what it looked like new. thx

[jeffmsp]

I only had my camera phone so you might have to zoom in to see the BPV. The BOV also did not have a silicone coupling holding it to the T in that pic so you can get a better idea of how it works. Looks better with the silicone on.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/383000-383999/383561_122_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/383000-383999/383561_121_full.jpg

[FF Racer]

Thanx for the pictures, but when I zoom them we dont see very well. If you can try to get better ones it'll be greatly appreciated.

Let me know on how to lube it also.

[FF Racer]

Allen screws are on very tight. I'm trying with a bit of penetrating oil to see if it'll budge. I also tried to loosen them but felt like they were going to strip.

[FF Racer]

I was able to loosen the allen bolts. Wasen't easy though. Cleaned the whole valve and used grease to re-lube it. I also had a chance to mess around with different resistance springs. Yellow is good, but I get more turkey than swoosh... then I tried the green one with a metal spacer.. good also, less turkey but the best IMO is the original green spring. Too bad they dont make a softer spring because i'm pretty sure we'd get more swoosh.

Still waiting on the better pictures!

[RenzoMSP]

Bump for better pics.

[RenzoMSP]

So today i switched over back to the stock bpv, because i was getting tired of the way my car was running on the Forge bov. If you get some better pics soon. Ill try your setup.

[RenzoMSP]

bump

[jeffmsp]

ok ok ill get em.i just got no digi cam so its a bit hard to get a good one.

[RenzoMSP]

Awesome thanks.

[Psyklops]

So how are you finding your dual setup after having it installed for awhile? I am starting to think that this might be a good alternative setup for a bpv/bov instead of mounting a bov near the throttle body as several people on the forum have done (then you don't have to buy hardpipes). One guy mentioned using a hybrid (http://www.gfb.com.au/index.php?parentid=products&option=products&sub_option=bovs&sub_sub_option=hybrid) valve, but I think you can essentially build your own using the stock bpv and an adjustable aftermarket bov. I know you used different length vaccuum hoses to delay the bov, but perhaps tightening the spring on a bov might allow enought delay. Any thoughts? Oh, this would be done all in the name of turkey killing!

[RenzoMSP]

So where exactly does that T connector go. Between the cold pipe and bov. Then the last side for the bpv.???

[jeffmsp]

still no camera. ok, hotside pipe has a tee going out of it. forge on one end, stocker on other. its not too hard. Both get hooked up,. I dont even think a picture can make it clearer than that. Also, you may need additional hose for the BPV to intake hose depending on exactly where you end up with after fitment. Clamp everything together with the usual silicone and worm clamp treatment and enjoy. If your valve is opening too soon or too late do whatever you want to adjust it. Change the spring, the length of the hose, whatever. Every car will be a bit different.

[FF Racer]

What are the differences beween a long vac hose as opposed to a short one? I've already tried changing the spring with a yellow one... all I got was more turkey.

[JBreed]

scribe...

[FF Racer]

Still waiting on info. I just put back my stock valve a week ago.

[jeffmsp]

ok how can you guys not figure this out. theres a T.. one end goes into the hardpipe, one end facing down has the stock BPV on it with the hose recirculating, the other end goes straight towards the firewall and has the Forge BOV on it. Hook em up however you want. For my car i needed a short line going to the BPV, a longer line going to the BOV. Get a longer or shorter hose for the recirculation from the BPV depending on what kind of setup you have. I made it fancy by using a 3 way vacume line fitting before, I think thats whats confusing you guys so just give em each a vac source. If you dont have enough vac sources, build a vac block out of parts from the hardware store that has like 3 or 4 vac ports. pm byhondspeed if you need more info on the vac block.

[jeffmsp]

also, the vac source that you use will have an effect on when/how either valve works. Make sure you have a better vac source on the BPV or make the BOV vac line longer to compensate. still have no camera and i sold my BOV to a buddy so no pics til my new valve gets here. probobly just gonna grab another forge or something else that will work ez if its local.

[Brian MP5T]

Great Writeup but like you say, I didn't think it would matter too much.

[Notorious_V.I.C]

Jeff, On low rpms like when i'm pulling into my drive way the car shakes like crazy almost like if its about to stall. I can feel it on the drivers side, almost kind of like a feeling of going over a road full of rocks or a harsh road, put it at that. SO, this dual venting will help me from stalling and help it from leaking "blowing off" on the highway??

[Notorious_V.I.C]

Edit** I'll take a picture of my set-up...Cause during idle its fine and no problems, no dipping in rpms either. Its sometimes when I'm turning I dunno maybe my driving or something...

[kamon8404]

Subbed...

[kamon8404]

Since you tapped the line going to the brake booster for the vac source ... did you just run the vac line on top of the mani to the wastegate?

Also, did you have a breather on your car or did you "t" the line coming from the intake to the head?

[jeffmsp]

do you have solid motor mounts? Is one of your stock mounts broken? I hae a sold front tranny mount and a slightly ripped/broken rear tranny mount and I get the same thing as you are describing even with everything stock again. dont have the dual setup anymore as i am going for stock appearing now but i dont think it will help with what you are describing.

[jeffmsp]

I still had the line going from the valve cover to the intake. You will not pass a roadside emmissions test without that line on. Ive tried with it off and put a breather on and never really noticed a difference so I put it back to stock.

[kamon8404]

So did you have the line on top of the mani that goes to the stock bpv and wastegate going directly to the wastegate?

[fr0st]

something i don't get,

why use dual setups ?

i plan on putting a BOV and relocating my maf..

wouldn't that just do it ?

just asking, not flaming here.

[onequickmsp]

something i don't get,

why use dual setups ?

i plan on putting a BOV and relocating my maf..

wouldn't that just do it ?

just asking, not flaming here.

Good question, answer anyone?? I would like to know myself.

Also, Has anybody tried the dual setup with success. I'm sick of having my Forge bleed around 130km and playing with the gas. Would relocating the MAF fix this?? If you relocated the MAF, does everything else stay the same or do other things have to be moved also. What is the best bet? Dual setup or relocated MAF??

Thanks and sorry for the 1001 questions. I just don't want to jump into anything I'm not certain of.

[jeffmsp]

well i didnt compare it to the maf relocation but i figured most would be able to realize it is not as good as the sensor isnt as precise since air is still getting leaked after its readings have been calculated by the stock ecu. not flaming.




i plan on putting a BOV and relocating my maf..

wouldn't that just do it ?

just asking, not flaming here.

no flaming needed. I have had every sensible sensor/pipe setup. The dual setup is not as good as maf meter relocation. Its the path to take if you are not interested in an aftermarket IC to TB pipe. For the time I had this setup I was not using a aftermarket IC to TB pipe with my FMIC setup since the IC to TB hardpipe shows no dyno proven results or real world results for me. That and I had my methenol injection setup on my aftermarket IC to TB pipe and didnt have it in all the time so I would just stick the stocker back on since it looked nicer than my butcher sealing job on the methenol injection needle..

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/383000-383999/383561_59_full.jpg

[onequickmsp]

So Jeff,
I have the TurboHoses setup and I'm sick of almost stalling at red lights and bleeding BOV after 130 km/h. What do you recommand sense you've tried most setups?? I just want my car to be driveable but I don't want to lose the swoooosh sound (I'm a kid at heart).

Thanks!!

P.S. Are you on TOprotege.com?? if so, whats ur nick??

[onequickmsp]

So here it is. I went out today and installed the dual setup on my MSP. I was having alot of problems before with stalling mainly due to the Forge BOV so I switched back to the MSP valve but once the bug has bitten, you can't stop the itch. I missed the performance and "Swooosh" sound. Not wanting to spend more money on a another BOV I decided to try to use what I have and see if I can get Jeff's dual setup to work for me.

I've been driving the car all day and at first it seemed like the dual setup did nothing and I still had "turkey" with stalling. But after a few hours of driving the turkey was replaced with a mild "swoosh" sound and no more stalling. I'm hoping the car will stay like this but I'll keep posting updates.

Here are some pics for those who wish to try. Everything I needed I bought at Canadian Tire but I'm sure you can all find at your local Napa store.

[jeffmsp]

it took me a bunch of trial and error runs getting the vac lines just right. its not a perfect solution but it helps.

[onequickmsp]

Well, after having it on for almost a week I finally decided that the dual setup has failed for me. The car still wants to stall, it runs pig rich, and I'm still getting a CEL every so often. I'm currently running the stock by-pass valve but the "turkey" is killing me and my engine (compressor surge). I've decided to relocate the MAF and run a dual setup with a different BOV. What are you guys running on your cars and are you happy?? I really like the way the Greddy type S sounds but I can't find them anywhere. Is the Type S a troublesome BOV?? How about the type RS?? Anybody running an HKS SSQV or Turbosmart Kompact??

Thanks!!

[gato9lives]

http://www.emotioneric.com/perturbed.jpg

[yudkib]

just wondering, do you spend a lot of time on /b/ or something?