View Full Version : Cams are in.
and now the car won't start. Just back fires and cranks. (bang)
timing off? that's my guess (poke)
even if the timing was off, it would just run like balls. unless it's WAY off, in which case, you will have already bent most or all of the valves.
also, make sure you didnt jack up the cam position sensor by whacking it with a camshaft.
yep i'm hoping that it didn't bend a valve or i'll be pissed. but if that happens then i guess i'll save up for a mam block.
valves are in the head, paul. you'll want a functioning valvetrain before you buy a new block (unless the MAM is a shortblock with complete head.)
Emode
06-13-2005, 03:11 PM
are these custom cams or the j-spec mazda ones?
jdm cams. and phil i think mam is a whole short block. but let's not go that route just yet. do u think it bent a valve? or maybe the timing was just off?
peepsalot
06-13-2005, 03:40 PM
I thought the JDM ones were not good for FI.
well think about it. what if u had a n/a car and u put a turbo on? u'd have n/a cams on a turbo car.
back on topic
wicked
06-13-2005, 03:46 PM
short blocks don't include heads.
but if you did bend valves then I recamend if you are going for performance,you should get a P&P job done,and go 1mm oversized on the exhaust valves.
jdm cams. and phil i think mam is a whole short block. but let's not go that route just yet. do u think it bent a valve? or maybe the timing was just off?
you'd have to be REALLY off, and i'm talking like 180 degrees off, for it to be so fucked that it wouldnt start. my bet is that you whacked the CPS and messed it up.
short blocks don't include heads.
but if you did bend valves then I recamend if you are going for performance,you should get a P&P job done,and go 1mm oversized on the exhaust valves.
why just the exhaust valves? (poke)
CasopoliS
06-13-2005, 03:54 PM
Casopolis' computer has subscribed for him
and just a fyi the lobes on the exhaust cam appear to be smaller than the stock ones. from what i can tell. and that was using a micromater (sp)
and the intake is only about 1000th of an inch bigger or so
xfaradx
06-13-2005, 04:01 PM
Way to play for team retard.
paul, do you know what overlap is?
Way to play for team retard.
:rolleyes: thanks for the help
paul, do you know what overlap is?
(bang) sorry i meant the lobes
still not getting you. did someone measure lash with a feeler, or did someone measure lift with a dial indicator and 2 v-blocks?
wicked
06-13-2005, 04:28 PM
why just the exhaust valves? (poke)
add were you need,with FI the air WILL get in there,but it needs as much help as it can get to get it out,especially with the backpressure of the turbo.
DiscreetSpeed
06-13-2005, 04:29 PM
just checking but make sure you have the cams in the right place..i mean it could have been overlooked and slapped the intake one on the exhaust side and vice versa.
DiscreetSpeed
06-13-2005, 04:30 PM
im guessing theres you checked everything else?
just checking but make sure you have the cams in the right place..i mean it could have been overlooked and slapped the intake one on the exhaust side and vice versa.
i did them right. i left the intake cam in the box just how i got it and did the exhaust first. then i did the intake. i know 110% that they are on the correct sides
wicked
06-13-2005, 04:32 PM
can you leak down test?it'll show if you bent any valves
xfaradx
06-13-2005, 04:33 PM
If all else fails try putting your stock cams back in and see if it fires. Talk to phil about it.
i'm going to play w/ the timing to see if i can get it set right first. i'm really hoping it's something stupid like that. stock cams would be the last resort
Dexter
06-13-2005, 04:54 PM
maybe you shoud try the stock cams again to make sure there arent any fucked up sensors or something
stdntDrvr
06-13-2005, 04:58 PM
to set your time...I and E (i think) on the cam gears...two should be at 12:00 and the other two should be facing each other...when at top dead center...there's a thing you can read it by above your crank pulley...you've gotta look down under the hood to see it...it'll show you where top dead center is...just turn the crank until you're there.
and i thought i fucked my car up when i took my cams out...holy shit. i was off by 1 tooth on the intake side and forgot the cam seals (lost all of my oil)...your car sounds fucked up.
i also put them in wrong at first...the intake cam goes at the BACK of the motor...close to the firewall...the exhuast is at the front.
Kooldino
06-13-2005, 05:02 PM
Did you follow the HOW-TO on cams on this site?
BlkZoomZoom
06-13-2005, 05:03 PM
JDm cams are not the best for F/I. They have more overlap than the stockers.
^so am i going to loose power w/ these cams?
so what do u recommend? just the jdm intake cam?
topher-
i had it all lined up. now that i think about it, maybe the intake might have been off 1 tooth. i'll let u guys know an update.
Dexter
06-13-2005, 07:37 PM
paul, thats what i had posted in your other thread. blkzoomzoom and focus said they weren't very gofd for F/I but installshield2 said it would be a good mod to move the powerband up...or sometihng like that.
that's what i remember reading was that it moves the powerband up. Which is cool w/ me. As long as i have a smooth powerband and don't loose horse then i don't have anything to loose
wicked
06-13-2005, 07:54 PM
more overlap,allows for less boost to actually get into and stay in the combustion chamber.
it wroks well for N/A,because it helps remove more exhaust,when the exhaust side does close,it causes more intake are to get stuck in the combustion chamber.
adjustable cam gears would help this out,but you would have to spend time on the dyno to get them right.
Aricjm15
06-13-2005, 08:10 PM
there is not much overlap with these at stock timing
well i took the valve cover off tonight and did some looking around. the 2 timing marks dont' seem to be where they were before. Now i know that i tried to turn the motor over but if they were origonally at 3 oclock and 9 oclock shouldn't they both move in sequence?
now it looks like that the intake is at 10 oclock and the exhaust is at 3 oclock.
someone let me know if that's normal.
on that note, i had someone crank the motor while i looked at it and i noticed that something is wrong w/ my crank pulley. when the motor cranks the pulley wobbles...a lot.
so maybe i didn't get it to sit far enough in. either way that's gotta come off then put back on. Could this be the only problem?
Aricjm15
06-14-2005, 01:01 AM
well i took the valve cover off tonight and did some looking around. the 2 timing marks dont' seem to be where they were before. Now i know that i tried to turn the motor over but if they were origonally at 3 oclock and 9 oclock shouldn't they both move in sequence?
now it looks like that the intake is at 10 oclock and the exhaust is at 3 oclock.
someone let me know if that's normal.
on that note, i had someone crank the motor while i looked at it and i noticed that something is wrong w/ my crank pulley. when the motor cranks the pulley wobbles...a lot.
so maybe i didn't get it to sit far enough in. either way that's gotta come off then put back on. Could this be the only problem?
the crank pully also has the crank position teeth on it, if those are gayed the ECU will not know where the crank is, thus gayness, fix the crank pully and make sure ALL of the teeth are ok, none of them should be bent, the spot where it looks like one may be missing, its supposed to be like that, but it SHOULD NOT WOBBLE
Captain KRM P5
06-14-2005, 01:02 AM
LinuxRacr runs these cams on his turbo protege at 10psi on a T3 and the overlap does not negatively affect the car or the powerband
the crank pully also has the crank position teeth on it, if those are gayed the ECU will not know where the crank is, thus gayness, fix the crank pully and make sure ALL of the teeth are ok, none of them should be bent, the spot where it looks like one may be missing, its supposed to be like that, but it SHOULD NOT WOBBLE
what's odd i know for a fact that i liked the key hole up when i put the pulley back on. i remember that it didn't go on very far though but i didn't think anything of it (bang)
Aricjm15
06-14-2005, 01:10 AM
what's odd i know for a fact that i liked the key hole up when i put the pulley back on. i remember that it didn't go on very far though but i didn't think anything of it (bang)
that needs to be torqued down to about 150 ft/lbs, it should slide on pretty easy, make sure the washer is still there, take off the pasenger wheel and the cover so you can get to it easy, put the car in reverse and have a friend mash on the brakes as hard as they can while you tq it down
how does having someone hold the brakes hold the crank?
Do you think that could be my only problem?
Aricjm15
06-14-2005, 01:23 AM
how does having someone hold the brakes hold the crank?
Do you think that could be my only problem?
since its in gear it will hold, trust me, if you dont think it will not work drive your friends 5speed car and while rolling slow just jab the brakes as hard as you can while it is in gear, you will see
oh i know that it works for sure, i just never understood the logic behind it
stdntDrvr
06-14-2005, 08:01 AM
you need to have the crank pulley put back on with an impact wrench...otherwise, it won't be tight enough.
Focus
06-14-2005, 08:18 AM
Lift can be measured with a Dial caliper. Just subtract. The biggest part of the lobe minus the lobe center = Lift
still not getting you. did someone measure lash with a feeler, or did someone measure lift with a dial indicator and 2 v-blocks?
Lift can be measured with a Dial caliper. Just subtract. The biggest part of the lobe minus the lobe center = Lift
true, but it's more common to use the v-blocks. i was trying to get a feel for what they had been doing.
you need to have the crank pulley put back on with an impact wrench...otherwise, it won't be tight enough.
i did, i guess it just didn't sit right. i went back to look at it this morning and noticed this. does this look normal?
stdntDrvr
06-14-2005, 01:32 PM
wow, i don't know what that could be from...that's odd.
i know and the lobes aren't close enought to hit so i'm wondering if it's a defect in the casting or not
wicked
06-14-2005, 03:09 PM
If you look around more in the head,you will see more spots like that.It's were they ground down from the factory,after they cast it.
it's normal(usually)
but if something hit there,it would look like that as well.
well it's like that on the other end of the cams as well.
i just hope it's normal. hoping i can get out of work a bit early and get a jump on the car i wanna get it running by the end of the week
wicked
06-14-2005, 03:24 PM
there should be no reason why it can't get done in that amount of time.
you have no idea what my everyday schedule is like. and it'd be easier if the car was at home but it's not, i was doing it at my cousin's house
wicked
06-14-2005, 03:33 PM
sorry to here.
full time work plus full time school, gives me about 1 hour a day to myself. so it seems.
anyone know how hard is it to get the head off from where i'm at right now? just curious
wicked
06-14-2005, 03:45 PM
it's not hard,provided you have removed a head from a transverse mounted 4 cyl. before.
otherwise it will probaly take you a while.
BlkZoomZoom
06-14-2005, 03:51 PM
Why are you pulling the head?
i'm not. just curious how hard, incase i want to pick up a spare to have it p&p'd
BlkZoomZoom
06-14-2005, 04:55 PM
Depends on skill level and what you want to accomplish. I had the head off the MSP in about 1/2hr. last week, of course this was knowing that the engine was coming out anyways. I left everything else in there.
and u've torn cars apart before. this is actually a first for me
stdntDrvr
06-15-2005, 08:06 AM
ken @ protegegarage has a spare head
i think i'll pass on the head. ok, so my dumbass didn't line the keyhole up on the crank pulley. i know i did but it didn't line up either way so i pulled the key out and now i need a new wood druff key. and no idea where to get one
Brian MP5T
06-15-2005, 02:38 PM
Subscribing
damn, looks like this is a dealer part only. :(
Subscribing
WAYYYYYY ahead of you.
SpicyMchaggis
06-15-2005, 04:18 PM
ouch. We all make mistakes though. Chalk it up to experience.
well i just called and ordered the key. it's $3.75 plus 10% for overnight fee and it will be here on friday.
Aricjm15
06-15-2005, 07:28 PM
where did you order one from? they probably raped you, I tried getting the one out of the protege block I had at work but it was stuck in there, how the hell did yours just come out? the same key for the drive pulley is used for the crank/cam pulley
^^it was a bitch to come out. We actually bent a screwdriver and used that to pull the gear foward. Moving the gear foward pulled the key with it.
I ordered it from Pugi Mazda cuz they are close to work. It was $3.75 plus 10% for next day crap. They are going to call me on Fri morning so I can go pick it up
Aricjm15
06-15-2005, 09:42 PM
pugi = criminals
peepsalot
06-15-2005, 09:59 PM
what the hells a wood druff key?
3.75 for a hard to find car part isn't really anything to complain about.
wicked
06-16-2005, 01:04 AM
I wouldn't complain of the price,it's hardly enough to buy a mcdonalds lunch.
what the hells a wood druff key?
3.75 for a hard to find car part isn't really anything to complain about.
i'm not complaing, just the fact that i have to wait 2 days.
it's a steel square more or less. it's the key that holds the crank pulley to the timing gear.
a key for the keyway
Aricjm15
06-16-2005, 01:52 AM
I'll check the cost of it tomorrow, I'm willing to bet that the dealer is only paying $0.70for it, and you ordered it wednesday and they are getting it friday? mazda only charges the 10% extra to the dealer on next day orders.
well it cost me about $4.72 and they got it in yesterday and didn't call. ARRGGGHHH.
go figure more stupid luck. the car is in my cuz's driveway and starting today the town is tearing up the sidwalks and curbs. so hopefully i can get the car out. If not then i'll take my manifold off and send it out to be ported/polished. :)
I got they key and will put the car back together tonight.
wish me luck
stdntDrvr
06-17-2005, 02:51 PM
good luck!
how is she going to sound w/ these cams?
stdntDrvr
06-17-2005, 03:28 PM
i don't know about f/i...but at idle, my car sounded like it was under water...you'll just have to hear it...it's hard to describe.
Brian MP5T
06-17-2005, 03:34 PM
Un-Subcribing
evilmonkeyMSP
06-17-2005, 03:42 PM
Re-Subscribing
Un-Subcribing
i don't know about f/i...but at idle, my car sounded like it was under water...you'll just have to hear it...it's hard to describe.
in a good way or in a bad way?
stdntDrvr
06-17-2005, 05:00 PM
oh it sounded great...you'll love it
well today is the day. I threw the car back together last night. Last thing is to put the belts back on. Then start her up. I'm leaving now to work on it. So wish me luck and i'll report back in about 2 hrs when i get home.
Also is there a break in period for cams?
msp35
06-18-2005, 03:43 PM
goodluck!
w00t w00t she's cammin.
sounds a little different to me. seems to run really good. not a huge jump in performance but a little different. I have only put about 12 miles on it so far, i'll let u know as they start to break in.
I haven't driven my car in about a week so it's really hard to say how the butt dyno really feels.
thanks for all the help everyone
wicked
06-18-2005, 07:44 PM
good to hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Captain KRM P5
06-19-2005, 01:58 AM
very relieved to hear
^u and me both.
now i have to figure out my next mod(s) and get this thing on the dyno :)
stdntDrvr
06-20-2005, 08:24 AM
Cam Gears
Cam Gears
no way, i'm not taking it all apart for a 3rd time
stdntDrvr
06-20-2005, 11:09 AM
lol...have them installed...you'll get more out of your cams.
Brian MP5T
06-20-2005, 11:13 AM
no way, i'm not taking it all apart for a 3rd time
They sit on the outside, you don't have to take anything appart. See picture...
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/New%205.jpg
all the same shit has to come off though. the belt.valve cover all that crap.
doesn't cam gears just advance ur timing?
and who makes them for the msp?
stdntDrvr
06-20-2005, 11:28 AM
tripoint i believe...and SR Motorsports
Aricjm15
06-20-2005, 11:44 AM
you would use the cam gears to get more overlap, you dont want more overlap being that turbo's dont like overlap
although you could mess around with the exhaust timing to try and get the turbo to spool faster
so how exactly do u "tune" cam gears?
stdntDrvr
06-20-2005, 11:48 AM
look at the pics at www.srmotorsports.com (http://www.srmotorsports.com/) you can see how to adjust them.
Kooldino
06-20-2005, 12:01 PM
so how exactly do u "tune" cam gears?
On a dyno.
^^haha yeah i know that. but do u take them off and put them on a different position? or is there an adjustment screw?
Brian MP5T
06-20-2005, 12:34 PM
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/GEAR%20-%206.jpghttp://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/GEAR%20-%20%285%29.jpg
Aricjm15
06-20-2005, 12:45 PM
slotted for your pleasure
wicked
06-20-2005, 03:17 PM
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/GEAR%20-%206.jpghttp://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/GEAR%20-%20%285%29.jpg
brian-- these are tri point made from the stock gears,where did you get them,tri point doesn't list them?
wicked
06-20-2005, 03:20 PM
the SR motor ones are close to $400,way to much for them,they should be closer to half that.
i wouldn't even pay 300 for them
noclue119
06-20-2005, 03:27 PM
i wouldn't even pay 300 for them
so what was ur problem paul?
so what was ur problem paul?
? w/ the cam install?
i messed up the woodruff key and pushed it too far in by not lining up the hole on the pulley w/ the keyway hole on the gear
noclue119
06-20-2005, 03:30 PM
? w/ the cam install?
i messed up the woodruff key and pushed it too far in by not lining up the hole on the pulley w/ the keyway hole on the gear
i see thx
yeah it was a stupid mistake that shouldn't have happened
UPDATE: car runs like shit now. I was backing out of a parking spot last night and the rpm's dipped on me and almost died. I didn't think anything of it.
Well today on the way to work i stopped to get some food and when i was backing out of the spot i heard the turkey, louder than normal.
she feels like she wants to stall. and if i give it a rev under 2500 she almost dies.
this happened before but i turned the greddy type s to a harder setting and she's been working fine for a few weeks. Should i make the spring harder on the greddy?
stdntDrvr
06-21-2005, 01:48 PM
i think several people are having problems with open BOV's...i'd get a recirculating bov and drive it for a few days to see how that works out
but the stock bpv is recirculating. and it's been driving fine for a while now. i dont get it
stdntDrvr
06-21-2005, 02:08 PM
i can't speak from experience, that's just what i've heard. do a search and see what you can come up with...i know i_boost had problems with his greddy type-s. he said that it would try to stall on him.
Blitzd
06-23-2005, 04:57 PM
i know this thread is dead but FYI
I was one of the first to do a JDM cam swap to my 1st, 1ST msp. My car was fast, VERY fast I had several other mods on the car but that made the biggest difference. i ended up blowing up the car and am not sure what did it finally but the cams made a huge difference. I believe it was what made the car so fast to begin with. I have thought about putting them back in my new msp but am worried about the effects. Just be careful and listen for anything out of the ordinary. These cars can be so so fast jsut watch for people who have done it before.
stdntDrvr
06-23-2005, 04:59 PM
please blitzd, that slow orange turd was a pos. my p5 could take it
i know this thread is dead but FYI
I was one of the first to do a JDM cam swap to my 1st, 1ST msp. My car was fast, VERY fast I had several other mods on the car but that made the biggest difference. i ended up blowing up the car and am not sure what did it finally but the cams made a huge difference. I believe it was what made the car so fast to begin with. I have thought about putting them back in my new msp but am worried about the effects. Just be careful and listen for anything out of the ordinary. These cars can be so so fast jsut watch for people who have done it before.
did u do the mazdamotorsports exhaust cam too?
Maz2001MP
06-23-2005, 06:06 PM
I don't understand how JDM cams or the japanese mazdaspeed camshaft which came on the FSZE can make a huge difference on a FI application?
From what I know those cams were designed to function better for NA applications and besides the FSZE/Mazdaspeed cams are really mild and specs-wise don't hugely differ all that much from our stockers (I believe the lift is the same and duration is slightly increased??, correct me if I am wrong).
I think those cams will give probably give you a good 5 whp at most untuned. With a good NA tune maybe you can see the ballpark 150 crank hp that comes on the FSZE (don't forget the FSZE has higher compression). I don't know to be honest.. that would be cool though if they did make power on a FI setup..
Maz2001MP
06-23-2005, 06:08 PM
UPDATE: car runs like shit now. I was backing out of a parking spot last night and the rpm's dipped on me and almost died. I didn't think anything of it.
Well today on the way to work i stopped to get some food and when i was backing out of the spot i heard the turkey, louder than normal.
she feels like she wants to stall. and if i give it a rev under 2500 she almost dies.
this happened before but i turned the greddy type s to a harder setting and she's been working fine for a few weeks. Should i make the spring harder on the greddy?
that is wierd. maybe you have an EGR valve issue? I had a problem with mine and had stumbling and stalling.
Focus
06-23-2005, 06:54 PM
FS-DE Valve Timing:
<table style="text-align: left; width: 800px;" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top;">Valve Timing
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam duration
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">230° @ 0.003"
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam opening
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">2° BTDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam closing
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">48° ABDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam lobe height
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.700mm (1.7205")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam base circle
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake valve lift
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.6487mm (0.3405")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam duration
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">230° @ 0.003"
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam opening
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">48° BBDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam close
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">2° ATDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam lobe height
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.225mm (1.7018")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam base circle
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust valve lift
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.1737mm (0.3218")
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Valve overlap
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">4°</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Focus
06-23-2005, 06:55 PM
FS-ZE Valve Timing:
<table style="text-align: left; width: 800px;" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2"> <tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align: top;">Valve Timing</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">MazdaSpeed
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">MazdaSpeed
(revised/TSB fix)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam duration
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">241° @ 0.003"</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">241° @ 0.003"</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam opening
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">5° BTDC</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">5° BTDC</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam closing
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">56° ABDC</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">56° ABDC</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam lobe height
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.700mm (1.7205")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.700mm (1.7205")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake cam base circle
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Intake valve lift
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.6487mm (0.3405")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.6487mm (0.3405")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam duration
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">240.8° @ 0.003"
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">241° @ 0.003"
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam opening
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">48.3° BBDC
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">55.5° BBDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam close
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">12.5° ATDC
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">5.5° ATDC
</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam lobe height
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.700mm (1.7205")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">43.700mm (1.7205")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust cam base circle
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">35.052mm (1.380")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Exhaust valve lift
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.6487mm (0.3405")</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">8.6487mm (0.3405")</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: top;">Valve overlap
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">17.5°
</td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">10.5°</td></tr></tbody> </table>
BlkZoomZoom
06-23-2005, 07:01 PM
Thats alot of valve overlap.
ND4MSP
06-23-2005, 07:26 PM
while the concencous is that the jdm cams are better suited for an n/a setup, I'm no engine builderguru type person but its pretty obvious by looking at the specs they offer MORE in more categories in addition to the overlap(which is bad).
So I could see why Blitzd would think this was one of his best mods. Thx for the input btw. Did it help the flatter spots around full boost? And did you have fuel management when you were running the jdm cam/s.
I would seriously like to run the jdm cams, but I don't think I'll touch them without tuning in the near future.
^^i'm sooo lost right now.
so are they good or bad?
ND4MSP
06-24-2005, 12:27 AM
yes..lol. That really remains to be seen for sure. Someone will dyno with these someday.
Focus
06-24-2005, 07:11 AM
With adjustable cam gears, they can be awesome.
^^i'm sooo lost right now.
so are they good or bad?
Blitzd
06-24-2005, 08:38 AM
while the concencous is that the jdm cams are better suited for an n/a setup, I'm no engine builderguru type person but its pretty obvious by looking at the specs they offer MORE in more categories in addition to the overlap(which is bad).
So I could see why Blitzd would think this was one of his best mods. Thx for the input btw. Did it help the flatter spots around full boost? And did you have fuel management when you were running the jdm cam/s.
I would seriously like to run the jdm cams, but I don't think I'll touch them without tuning in the near future.
Thanks, yeah it helped accross the board. Topher has first hand experience with the car and the cams just seemed to liven t up a good bit. Most of the off boost turdslowedness was almost gone and once boost came on, holy shit. The one way people described the car was scary fast, for a while it even scared me. I did have a bunch of other mods but when the cams went in they brought it all together so well. I really miss that car. Ask topher what cams they were I believe it was the Mazdaspeed J-Spec and a Mazdaspeed reground cam. It's been so long since I bought them I can't remember. I had originally bought them for my Pro5 back when the cams first became available. I wasn't running any managment systems which was probably my biggest problem. I think that if the car was tuned and had a fpr and maybe some new injectors it would have been perfect.
stdntDrvr
06-24-2005, 08:56 AM
he had the j-spec intake and j-spec exhaust from corksport...he bought them back in the day when the j-spec exhaust cam was available.
i think his mods were: intake, exhaust (i don't remember if he had both cats or just one)...UR crank pulley, cams, the joep stuff...pivot racing grounding kit...umm...i'm sure he'll add what i missed. i will say this...the night it blew-up, he was spanking the shit out of a srt-4...and i've seen him take a few v8's with his old msp...that thing was fucking fast...i think the 14psi had something to do with it too...which is probably why the car is no longer with us. some girl in town has it...it's back to stock...they replaced the motor once or twice and the tranny twice...he gave that car hell. luckily, we're building his new msp up the correct way.
Focus
06-24-2005, 09:03 AM
link?
luckily, we're building his new msp up the correct way.
stdntDrvr
06-24-2005, 09:18 AM
oh, we're doing mild stuff right now...no links or anything...we haven't really gotten started yet. just small bolt-ons here and there for now...but i've got the plans drawn out.
i think the mazdamotorsports exhaust cam is holding me back.
up until 4k the car is holding back, but after 4k the car pulls very nice
kasmankk
07-01-2005, 12:45 PM
i think the mazdamotorsports exhaust cam is holding me back.
up until 4k the car is holding back, but after 4k the car pulls very nice
I got a set of FS-ZE cams waiting to be installed on my boosted FS-DE. if the gain is noticable, i'll do the swap immediately.
what say you ? do it or not to do it?(eyeballs)
the car is a lot faster. i had a vacuum leak that i never found, until the other night, she pulls real nice now, but
1st gear spike at 8-9psi until 3k rpm then drops to about 5ish then after 4k she goes up to 6psi. it's weird
stdntDrvr
07-01-2005, 02:24 PM
did you reset the ecu? it may be trying to learn the new set-up
nah i didnt' reset it, it should be a learning ecu and should just adjust to it. the msp always sucks between 3-4k and i even have the flash.
i think if i get dsm's afc or a boost controller it will get rid of the creep/spike
Captain KRM P5
07-01-2005, 02:39 PM
i do not believe that your cams and your boost issues are related, personally.
stdntDrvr
07-01-2005, 02:42 PM
i agree with ken...but with the added air getting into the combustion chamber, it could be trying to compensate in some way...hell, i don't know...i just drive the things.
i'm not blaming it on the cam, i'm putting the blame on mazda's garbage ecu
Focus
07-01-2005, 04:11 PM
Actually the ECU is an EEC-V Ford. One of the most advanced factory ecu's.
i'm not blaming it on the cam, i'm putting the blame on mazda's garbage ecu
well i guess that rules that out. now i have no guess on what to put the blame on
wicked
07-01-2005, 04:31 PM
Actually the ECU is an EEC-V Ford. One of the most advanced factory ecu's.
but the tuning is still garbage.
jeffmsp
07-03-2005, 07:40 PM
you need an ems to get the full potential out of any mods. as long as your quicker it was worth it.
i started her up the other day to move it and she sounded funny. Souned like a knock at first. then it went away...hmm..
DonSVO
07-04-2005, 04:53 PM
i started her up the other day to move it and she sounded funny. Souned like a knock at first. then it went away...hmm..
cold-start piston slap or you need an oil change. mine does it too after 2500ish miles.
jeffmsp
07-04-2005, 05:14 PM
for a new car, i also found my ms to have alot of valvetrain noise on startup, but its the same as ever other 2.0fs ive heard. synthetic oil of course. maybe because you changed the cams, the effect is more audible than with the stock grind.
Captain KRM P5
07-04-2005, 05:15 PM
i have some valve tick as well
Focus
07-04-2005, 06:09 PM
Have you measured valve lash with the new cams. The FS motor uses a pill/solid lifter design. Mazda makes a few different sized pills.
i started her up the other day to move it and she sounded funny. Souned like a knock at first. then it went away...hmm..
wicked
07-04-2005, 07:45 PM
you can have a machine shop shim it for you for around 100 a cam at a good shop.
you can do it yourself,If my mind is working correctly,I think there should be around
.022 gap between the cam and bucket.make sure the valves are closed for that cylinder when measuring..
I can tell you tomarrow if no one else does first.
BlkZoomZoom
07-04-2005, 11:06 PM
stock lash is .010 +- .001 Of course that is with stock cams, I don't know if its the same for the JDM ones.
wicked
07-05-2005, 01:02 AM
I think it will be safe with the same lash,I doubt they will bind
DonSVO
07-05-2005, 09:58 AM
you definitely need to make sure that you are adjusted correctly for lash. they sell different buckets *sit on top of the valve & spring* so that you can correctly adjust the lash.
i am so confused right now.
wicked
07-05-2005, 02:13 PM
It's not hard to understand,but if you really need help,you can take it to a machine shop,or even mazda.
were do you live?
wicked
07-05-2005, 02:16 PM
you definitely need to make sure that you are adjusted correctly for lash. they sell different buckets *sit on top of the valve & spring* so that you can correctly adjust the lash.
it's not the buckets you would need to buy,they have shimming pills in the top of the buckets,they come out with a fine flatheat,and a magnet.
why would i need to get this done?
wicked
07-05-2005, 05:58 PM
so your valves fully open and close,and you don't cuase unecasser ware on your valvetrain
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