Another Boom Zoom Zoom

[lcruz64]

I was on my way to the shop and the car just stalls. I turn it on and drive about 100 feet and hear this clicking noise out of the engine. It was a melted piston knocking the spark plug's head. (blowup) Boost was set to stock when this happenned and had just installed the FMIC Kit from HiBoost. Had boosted to 10psi before that but didn't notice anything wrong at the time. So plans now are to get MAM's rods and pistons unless is too much $$ The shop is charging me $960.00 to hone the block and put in the new pistons. Is this a good price? If I wanted to change only 1 piston it will come out around the same price for labor but parts will be a lot cheaper. The only problem is that this is my only way to work so the more time it stays in the shop the more money I'm going to end up spending.

Update: Ordered Rods and Pistons from MAM I'll get some pics of the whole thing still haven't taken anything a part will wait for the parts and then start on the project if you guys have any input that will be nice.

[ddogg777]

I hope that $960 includes taking out and dropping the engine back in because that is very expensive...

[lcruz64]

They said it could be done without taking the engine out.

[wicked]

and it can,but you have to pull the head,and bed plate.

[BlkZoomZoom]

Melted a stock piston? B.s. I say. Your pistons broke before the stock rods?

[Aricjm15]

or you ran the car low on oil and spun a bearing, and at that point they will NEED to pull the crank and machine it and you will need oversized rod bearings, and then you might as well get a new engine at that point

[Focus]

You may have a bent rod.

[daedalus]

or you ran the car low on oil and spun a bearing, and at that point they will NEED to pull the crank and machine it and you will need oversized rod bearings, and then you might as well get a new engine at that point


yep! thats what happened to me. Crank was fux0red.

[Micah]

my god - the more I am around this forum the more I am convinced that QA on the FSDE is a joke. It's not that the engine isn't capable, it's just such a delicate POS sometimes. Still, I miss my boosted pro every time I turn the key.

[msp35]

Time for a shortblock, or hit up some salvage yards for another block, and rebuild it.

[Matthew]

my god - the more I am around this forum the more I am convinced that QA on the FSDE is a joke. It's not that the engine isn't capable, it's just such a delicate POS sometimes. Still, I miss my boosted pro every time I turn the key.

its a limited edition though.

[Focus]

Actually the motor is one tough son of a gun, they just use cheap parts when it came to the rods.

[505zoom]

its a limited edition though.

:rolleyes:

[Aricjm15]

it has a steel crank, alot of cars still use cast iron

[Dexter]

its a limited edition though.

eat a dick.

[Focus]

eat himself ?


eat a dick.

[spacemonkey]

How exactly can you melt a cast iron piston or cast iron material...it would have to be super hot. or some sort of lubercation problem. Either way im sure its not what happened to your car,

my car is at 27,000 miles and it hasnt been back to the dealer yet...only for a reflash. im always been on stock boost and recently I loged in a pretty good gas mialge for the car.

[Matthew]

eat a dick.

i think you should save the car it might be worth something in a few years

[Dexter]

i dont care what its worth.

[ddogg777]

They said it could be done without taking the engine out.
That is too much if all they are gonna do is hone and drop in the pistons and rods for you. Ask them to break it down in hours...

[lcruz64]

Maybe I am expresing myself in the wrong way. All we did was take of the valve cover and look if there was something wrong with the valves, nothing there so took out the plugs and the first one had oil in it looked inside and the piston had a black circle on top of it that's it did not take anything apart or nothing. The car still starts but there's a really loud clicking noise coming out of the engine.
It was not low on oil, correct me if I am wrong but if your engine was a bent rod it will not start will it?
What I think happened was a really bad detonation. But this is the first engine I have blown so there's a good chance I could be wrong.

BTW any input is highly apreciated.

[Aricjm15]

Maybe I am expresing myself in the wrong way. All we did was take of the valve cover and look if there was something wrong with the valves, nothing there so took out the plugs and the first one had oil in it looked inside and the piston had a black circle on top of it that's it did not take anything apart or nothing. The car still starts but there's a really loud clicking noise coming out of the engine.
BTW any input is highly apreciated.
spun rod bearing, congrats you need a new engine. nothing can fix that for cheap

[Focus]

Bent rod.

[BlkZoomZoom]

Bent rod.

agreed.

[spacemonkey]

piston ring/s? most likely rods?

[lcruz64]

So at this point a built shortblock is about the thing I need?

Sure wasn't planning on it. But if I'm keeping the car mind as well do it right once.

[Focus]

you may be able to save the motor. I was lucky and just bent a rod no damage to the cylinder walls. Hope the same for you.

If so, throw in a set of forged pistons and rods and away you go!!!!


So at this point a built shortblock is about the thing I need?

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

and we see the reason im building an extra motor for the msp.

[lcruz64]

No doubt about forged even if I keep it like it is for now, wouldn't spend the money if it wasn't forged.

Any advice where should I get the forged pistons/rods? or Which ones?

[ddogg777]

I recommend the rods that Beau at Mental Addiction is producing: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107988 (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107987&highlight=forged+rods)

[Brian MP5T]

Sorry to hear and unfortunately "Welcome to the Club"

Change your avatar like some of the members who are in the club.

Post pictures when you get them. he opnly way to learn from others is to see..

[lcruz64]

Sorry to hear and unfortunately "Welcome to the Club"

Change your avatar like some of the members who are in the club.

Post pictures when you get them. he opnly way to learn from others is to see..

I'll do that

[mazdaspeed75]

Actually the motor is one tough son of a gun, they just use cheap parts when it came to the rods.yea ithink too Its all in the tune (bump)

[lcruz64]

Update: Ordered Rods and Pistons from MAM I'll get some pics of the whole thing still haven't taken anything a part will wait for the parts and then start on the project if you guys have any input that will be nice.

Does anyone have anything to say about e-manage in our cars?

[Kooldino]

I hope that $960 includes taking out and dropping the engine back in because that is very expensive...
Doesn't sound like a lot of $ to me...pulling the head/rebuilding the bottom end/putting the head back on is a BIG job.

[Brian MP5T]

Mine cost $1000.00 CDN

Deck
Dead
Deglaze
Alignhone
Balance.

I put it together however, there is savings there.

[igdrasil]

good choice...

could be a bent rod or spun rod bearing. If the noise is always there: bent rod, if the noise is louder as you decelerate the engine, its a spun bearing.

[lcruz64]

The pistons and rods take 4 to 5 weeks to ship, by that time my brothers who are army mechanics should be back home so they are probably going to help me out and save the labor but will have to take the block to a machine shop to get it bored, honed and balanced. Should I do anything else to the block while I have it out if so why?

[igdrasil]

get the crankshaft out, ready with the clutch setup you are going to use and front damper. As soon as the piston/rod arrives, take it to the machine shop and balance it.

how about engine management?

[lcruz64]

Good deal. Anybody wants to recommend a good machine shop in Miami/Ft Lauderdale?

Engine Management: don't know yet but I like e-manage I'm not going to be boosting 20psi right away either so that could wait. Right now I have DSMConvert's Airflow AFC which could work with bigger injectors but I don't think that's a good idea rather get something else if I get a different turbo. But at the time I get everything installed I'm not going over 10psi for sometime.

[ddogg777]

It sounds like he won't be getting any of this. Perhaps a quick drill hone.


Mine cost $1000.00 CDN

Deck
Dead
Deglaze
Alignhone
Balance.

I put it together however, there is savings there.

[lcruz64]

It sounds like he won't be getting any of this. Perhaps a quick drill hone.

Depends on the machine shop and at the moment I haven't found one localy but I want to take my time and do everything right so once I have a good understanding on what's going to be needed and how much money it's going to be I'll make my choices.

Deck?
Dead?
Deglaze?
Alignhone?
Balance?

What I went to school for was computers so I have no idea what the benefits of those things are that's where my brothers come in and help me out.
Bolt ons are like common sense to me but this is tottaly diferent that's why I think this forum rocks (lots of knowledge)

[lcruz64]

Just got a quote from a machine shop to Boil, Bore, Hone and Balance the engine to the flywheel for a very good price. Is there something else I should do?

[Kooldino]

Just got a quote from a machine shop to Boil, Bore, Hone and Balance the engine to the flywheel for a very good price. Is there something else I should do?
Boil?? what's that all about?

[lcruz64]

The person I talked to said that they need to Boil before Bore/Hone but not sure what it is.

Do you think $240.00 is a good price for all this?

[ddogg777]

Okay, here's the skinny. Every machine shop is different, I learned that the hard way my first time and lost $450.

You really should get the cylinders alignhoned (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42041). It's a special machine that guarantees the four cylinders to be in a perfect line. The first machine shop just through it on the drill and did each one individually. The second shop had a align honer and they found that cylinder 3 was not inline!

Balancing all the moving parts is a must if you plan on high power. Just think of an off-balance tire that shakes and shimmies. The factory balance on the crank is okay but can be better...

Decking is simply milling the surfaces of the block and head so that they mate together flush.

Boiling? I'm not sure but it might be to draw the oils out of the metal (you'd be surprised at how much oil metal can soak up, I've seen it first hand)

Deglazing (correct me if I'm wrong guys) is simply cleaning and removing any burnished surfaces. Give your block a good hot bead baking session and it will look new. This can only be done with the block completely removed and disassembled and should be done first...

[MSPRO]

Actually the motor is one tough son of a gun, they just use cheap parts when it came to the rods.

I feel more lucky everytime I read one of these threads. I have 72k on my MSP with no engine problems at all. I have run up to 15psi at times, but 10psi almost daily except for winter. I have broken an LSD, but nothing engine wise. I do check fluids and do mait. whenever necessary, but still. I am not that nice to it, I dont drive like a granny and I like to have fun whenver I can. I dont know what it is but I must have gotten a good one.

[yashooa]

I feel more lucky everytime I read one of these threads. I have 72k on my MSP with no engine problems at all. I have run up to 15psi at times, but 10psi almost daily except for winter. I have broken an LSD, but nothing engine wise. I do check fluids and do mait. whenever necessary, but still. I am not that nice to it, I dont drive like a granny and I like to have fun whenver I can. I dont know what it is but I must have gotten a good one.
Ditto same here but the LSD is in fine shape...

[lcruz64]

Thanks for all that info. Now the price looks more like it should. Is decking needed or will it improve how the engine fits together?

BTW: I only have 12000 miles on mine and at the time this happened wasn't boosting I guess is just luck.

[ddogg777]

HAHA! You guys just jinxed your cars!!

[MSPRO]

HAHA! You guys just jinxed your cars!!

haaha i have been waiting for it to blow up so that i can go forged and upgrade lol. until it does i cant, so its ok if i jinxed it lol

[ddogg777]

The deck and head should be checked regardless and then you can decide if it needs milling...The deck is probably okay since it is iron, the head is aluminum and can get warped.

[ddogg777]

haaha i have been waiting for it to blow up so that i can go forged and upgrade lol. until it does i cant, so its ok if i jinxed it lol
That's funny, you're like the only one who is trying to blow the engine! (alright)

[wicked]

Okay, here's the skinny. Every machine shop is different, I learned that the hard way my first time and lost $450.

You really should get the cylinders alignhoned (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42041). It's a special machine that guarantees the four cylinders to be in a perfect line. The first machine shop just through it on the drill and did each one individually. The second shop had a align honer and they found that cylinder 3 was not inline!

Balancing all the moving parts is a must if you plan on high power. Just think of an off-balance tire that shakes and shimmies. The factory balance on the crank is okay but can be better...

Decking is simply milling the surfaces of the block and head so that they mate together flush.





Boiling? I'm not sure but it might be to draw the oils out of the metal (you'd be surprised at how much oil metal can soak up, I've seen it first hand)

Deglazing (correct me if I'm wrong guys) is simply cleaning and removing any burnished surfaces. Give your block a good hot bead baking session and it will look new. This can only be done with the block completely removed and disassembled and should be done first...




deglazing is just when they run a hone down the cylinders,do remove the glazed surface that is caused by the normal use of an engine.

don't pay extra for it if you are already getting honed,it's the same thing.

[lcruz64]

deglazing is just when they run a hone down the cylinders,do remove the glazed surface that is caused by the normal use of an engine.

don't pay extra for it if you are already getting honed,it's the same thing.

Yes that's what I was told, It's the same thing.

[ddogg777]

Most of what you'll pay is for the time in removing and assembling which I did myself. I had everything done to my block for under $700 (align hone, bore hone, additional thrust washer machined in, cleaning, deburring, chamfering oil passages, replace all plugs, balancing parts, tolerancing rings/bearings/pistons/cylinders). I had everything done except for the deck surface because the first machine shop put a metal o-ring in for my copper headgasket.

[wicked]

where the F--- did you get a copper head gasket for this motor?

[lcruz64]

Very nice I don't think I'll be doing all that to my block but not sure yet for now:
Align Hone
Bore
Hone
Balance
Decking(if needed)
Chamfering Oil Passages (Maybe)
There's only 12k miles on this block so is probably in good shape.

[ddogg777]

where the F--- did you get a copper head gasket for this motor?
Search for copper headgasket (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38086&highlight=copper+headgasket). Some have had trouble getting it to seal properly, copper is very picky. I have my deck o-ringed and have ARP studs to distribute an even clamping load. Hopefully, mine won't leak when I put it in next week.

[ddogg777]

Very nice I don't think I'll be doing all that to my block but not sure yet for now:
Align Hone
Bore
Hone
Balance
Decking(if needed)
Chamfering Oil Passages (Maybe)
There's only 12k miles on this block so is probably in good shape.

Yes, getting the bore honed and the bearings set properly is crucial for long life...You have a good list! (first)

The chamfering the oil passages along the crank helps the oil flow a bit better. Some people have spun bearings from lack of good oil feeding, hopefully it helps... ;)

[wicked]

Search for copper headgasket (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38086&highlight=copper+headgasket). Some have had trouble getting it to seal properly, copper is very picky. I have my deck o-ringed and have ARP studs to distribute an even clamping load. Hopefully, mine won't leak when I put it in next week.

I know how to use them,I have used them a lot on other cars,they are awsome.

I just didn't know that anyone made them for our engine.


how about a link?

[BlkZoomZoom]

Whats wrong with the mls gaskets we have?

[ddogg777]

how about a link?

(poke) Try clicking on the link I gave you and that you have in your reply! (wedge)

BTW, I'm poking fun in a nice way...:) I meant do a search here, not google.

[ddogg777]

Whats wrong with the mls gaskets we have?
Perhaps nothing. But the copper gaskets can handle higher heat cycles without cracking better than MLS. That's what I hear anyway...

Edit: And your not suppose to reuse the mls gasket, that's a lot of replacements when you do as many mods as some are doing.. :D

[lcruz64]

It's going to be a very long 4 to 5 weeks to wait for rods/pistons. Driving the 6 is not as fun.

[igdrasil]

copper head gasket??? for what?

[wicked]

Perhaps nothing. But the copper gaskets can handle higher heat cycles without cracking better than MLS. That's what I hear anyway...

Edit: And your not suppose to reuse the mls gasket, that's a lot of replacements when you do as many mods as some are doing.. :D


exactly,after I have my engine back in,I will probaly have the head off atleast 3 times in the next few months

[lcruz64]

For the guys that are planning to boost without internals.

[dirtysouth_msp]

What is up with your video???

[Demonic-Speed]

yea that video kinda sucks:)

[igdrasil]

hey, remember, if you dont have the car well tuned, it doesnt matter if you get 2000whp internals...they will all fail on detonation

[lcruz64]

I know it suck's. Bored at work anything could happen with a smartphone and laptop.

Engine management yeah I'm planning to get the FTC from DSM Convert or E-Manage but I have 4 weeks to make up my mind since thats when I get the new internals + any input is welcome.

[wicked]

just remember,the MPI tuner has proven itself better then anything for our cars so far,and has been used to make the most power.

[igdrasil]

I know it suck's. Bored at work anything could happen with a smartphone and laptop.

Engine management yeah I'm planning to get the FTC from DSM Convert or E-Manage but I have 4 weeks to make up my mind since thats when I get the new internals + any input is welcome.

Why not microtech...??

You can use it as a piggyback, just split some wires and install a few other sensors and you are done, keeping the stock ecu in place for everything but ignition and fuel.

[lcruz64]

Yeah MPI is the one that most people have I think could be a choice too but the Microtech don't know about that one. The reason why I consider E-manage is cause I can get local help with maps and everything else, also lots of people know it. FTC will have maps to download and try from it's website and if you send the dyno sheet, you'll get a map back so that's pretty nice too.

[Brian MP5T]

Whats wrong with the mls gaskets we have?

Nothing

[Brian MP5T]

Perhaps nothing. But the copper gaskets can handle higher heat cycles without cracking better than MLS. That's what I hear anyway...

Edit: And your not suppose to reuse the mls gasket, that's a lot of replacements when you do as many mods as some are doing.. :D

The gasket is better, however if installed improperly...

Either it works well the first 100km and lasts forever or fails and has to be replaced.

Make sure the shop that is installing it has done them before, this is not a job for the backyard rookie.

[Brian MP5T]

It sounds like he won't be getting any of this. Perhaps a quick drill hone.

(hand) What a waste, it's open and appart, it's the best time to do it.

[ddogg777]

(hand) What a waste, it's open and appart, it's the best time to do it.

I agree, take that block outta there and git er dun proper...

[lcruz64]

Very nice I don't think I'll be doing all that to my block but not sure yet for now:
Align Hone
Bore
Hone
Balance
Decking(if needed)
Chamfering Oil Passages (Maybe)
There's only 12k miles on this block so is probably in good shape.
Very nice I don't think I'll be doing all that to my block but not sure yet for now:
Align Hone
Bore
Hone
Balance
Decking(if needed)
Chamfering Oil Passages (Maybe)
There's only 12k miles on this block so is probably in good shape.

[wicked]

Very nice I don't think I'll be doing all that to my block but not sure yet for now:
Align Hone
Bore
Hone
Balance
Decking(if needed)
Chamfering Oil Passages (Maybe)
There's only 12k miles on this block so is probably in good shape.



decking(maybe)?it your going to do a engine,this is a basic

chamfering oil passages(maybe) if your doing this much,why would you short yourself on oil,it's the most important part of this puzzle

[lcruz64]

decking(maybe)?it your going to do a engine,this is a basic

chamfering oil passages(maybe) if your doing this much,why would you short yourself on oil,it's the most important part of this puzzle
Good point on Chamfering Oil Passages about Decking I was told that if I need it they will tell me at the machine shop. Any input on Decking?

[ddogg777]

This is for wicked... http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111920
:D

[wicked]

thanks,I saw that thread just after this one awhile ago.

thanks for lookin out.

[ddogg777]

Doh! I see you're already there...

[wicked]

yup.