boosted 1.6L

[MIA protege]

just thought i would start this thread for people can get ideas on set ups for the 1.6L. custom or not. I like to see different set ups ... also can open up questions

ill start wiht my pics

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/miaprotege/bay.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/miaprotege/P1010023.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/miaprotege/0016.jpg

[steve_protege]

How happy are you with your kit? How much did everything cost you? Having any problems? Have you done anything to "protect" your engine (i.e valve job, torque converter)? How's the overall feel??? Fill me in!!

[MIA protege]

How happy are you with your kit? How much did everything cost you? Having any problems? Have you done anything to "protect" your engine (i.e valve job, torque converter)? How's the overall feel??? Fill me in!!

shit im real happy. i have had some problems but not all turbo related. got an oil leak 2nd week i had it and got that taken care of. i havent done anythign to protect it really, i have the haltech and our engines hold plenty boost and im only boosting 9lbs right now. my tranny is holding me back which im taking care of real soon. once thats done ill be boosting 15lbs daily. the feeling is great. the FIRST time i drove it once i got the kit on it, was ridiculous. amazing. i thought i was driving a race car lol. cuz the 1.6l is so so sooo slowwww. its amazing what the turbo does to this engine .

[99 Pro]

How much did the turbo cost you MIA? You happy with the amount of money it cost? How much HP does it add?

[MIA protege]

our cars have 83 whp. i have 163 at 9psi. so it basically doubled it. turbo cost me near 4k. and yes it was WELL worth the money cuz to tell u the truth, its like a whole new car. just have to keep the problems down to a minimum. but real fun to drive

[steve_protege]

shit im real happy. i have had some problems but not all turbo related. got an oil leak 2nd week i had it and got that taken care of. i havent done anythign to protect it really, i have the haltech and our engines hold plenty boost and im only boosting 9lbs right now. my tranny is holding me back which im taking care of real soon. once thats done ill be boosting 15lbs daily. the feeling is great. the FIRST time i drove it once i got the kit on it, was ridiculous. amazing. i thought i was driving a race car lol. cuz the 1.6l is so so sooo slowwww. its amazing what the turbo does to this engine .

So no problems with the tranny or anything? Even running 9 PSI? Whats the HiBoost kit capable of boosting to? I thought we could only run 7-8 PSI on stock internals? What upgrades do you have in mind for your tranny? How much was the kit? Engine management?

Is this a better kit than the Wagner one with the AEM engine management unit?

[MIA protege]

no problems wiht the tranny boosting 9psi. goign over will start to make it slip. the turbo in the hiboost kit is capable of 22psi. our internals are extremely strong so there is no worries there. holds safely 20psi. we dont know how much more than that though but im sure someone will find out soon. maybe goldpro lol . im either going manual or getting torque converter and donig anything else i need to make the thing hold 20lbs. but thats my goal. the kit was close to 4000 and thats including the Haltech.

im no one to say which kit is better since i have been in only one car with the wagner which was witchdoktors but he was only boosting 5psi. both kits are nice. This kit is a cleaner set up IMHO. im happy with this one. i have not had experience with the AEM unit so i dont know about that.

[Witchdoktor]

at the moment I'm running 5psi non-intercooled. it's a 2nd generation mitsubishi eclipse turbo custom welded by WagnerMotorSports. I bought the kit used which ran me 2200 including installation. fuel management is vortec 12:1. I've had the kit for almost a year and a half now. I had an oil leak coming from the oil pan the week after install which was a 400 dollar fix. Then about 6 months later the turbocharger itslef blew. I got a replacement off ebay with 7k miles for 150 bucks. no problems since. FMIC is due in july so I plan to up the boost (10ish). After that I'll put it on the dyno. The kit ran 165whp w/IC (not fmic) at 6psi off the protege it came off so we shall see.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Witchdoktor/IM002728.jpg

[MIA protege]

at the moment I'm running 5psi non-intercooled. it's a 2nd generation mitsubishi eclipse turbo custom welded by WagnerMotorSports. I bought the kit used which ran me 2200 including installation. fuel management is vortec 12:1. I've had the kit for almost a year and a half now. I had an oil leak coming from the oil pan the week after install which was a 400 dollar fix. Then about 6 months later the turbocharger itslef blew. I got a replacement off ebay with 7k miles for 150 bucks. no problems since. FMIC is due in july so I plan to up the boost (10ish). After that I'll put it on the dyno. The kit ran 165whp w/IC (not fmic) at 6psi off the protege it came off so we shall see.



thats why i wanna go manual. a lot of whp is lost when a car is auto. nice set up willis (bowdown)

[Witchdoktor]

I drove in MIAs car. The HiBoost kit is nice and clean. at 9psi it pulls real nice. and as he mentioned already the tranny is holding him back, slips more than tara reid's dress.

[MIA protege]

hahahaha

[steve_protege]

Dag man!! If the kit was a LITTLE bit cheaper, I would soooo be getting this. I hear so many great things about it. I can't put the thought of "going to the Darkside" out of my head! I would love to get this kit and run up to 20 lbs of boost...... Thats right, Im boost envious!!! I envy you MIA and Witchdoktor!!! I saw that both kits are pretty much the same price, but I think HiBoost is winning me over. So really all it takes to hold 15-20 lbs of boost is a valve job, a good torque converter, tranny cooler and maybe some other various upgrades??? Is it true that we can up the boost even further if we have lower compression pistons?

[MIA protege]

yes its true our low compression helps boost more. valve job ??? u have an automatic ?

[TampaSport20]

yes its true our low compression helps boost more. valve job ??? u have an automatic ?

Huh ??? We have the same compression as 2.0L's....9:1....

He asked with lower compression pistons could we run higher than 20 psi ?? I imagine you mean on otherwise stock internals ??? Possibly..that might be pushing it on stock rods,then again with GOOD tuning, maybe so......

[Protege2K]

FMIC is due in july so I plan to up the boost (10ish). After that I'll put it on the dyno. The kit ran 165whp w/IC (not fmic) at 6psi off the protege it came off so we shall see.
Glad to finally hear this. I figured if you couldn't make a FMIC out of tweed then you would never get one. ;) I'll have to see this car in person once you get everything settled up on it. Maybe a friendly little race against my MP3? (wiggle)

[Shane5425]

Huh ??? We have the same compression as 2.0L's....9:1....

He asked with lower compression pistons could we run higher than 20 psi ?? I imagine you mean on otherwise stock internals ??? Possibly..that might be pushing it on stock rods,then again with GOOD tuning, maybe so......

i think 20-24 psi would be pushing the engines limits, but we all know it has hit 20 psi, problem is who is gonna run around and fill there car with 100 octane gas when they need to refuel..

[MIA protege]

Huh ??? We have the same compression as 2.0L's....9:1....

He asked with lower compression pistons could we run higher than 20 psi ?? I imagine you mean on otherwise stock internals ??? Possibly..that might be pushing it on stock rods,then again with GOOD tuning, maybe so......

my bad. i meant shorter stroke

[Shane5425]

my bad. i meant shorter stroke

duh.. your always messin up man... damn.... j/j lol, what u gonna do about ur tranny problem?

[MIA protege]

going manual i think ... we will see ... im going to be seeing someone tomorrow about it. maybe he knows something better to do to my auto tranny

[Shane5425]

going manual i think ... we will see ... im going to be seeing someone tomorrow about it. maybe he knows something better to do to my auto tranny
cant u get the rebuild kit from lentech and have him rebuild yours, prolly cost a bit cheaper than switching to manual.. but if you can find a junky car with a manual, i would do that..

[peepsalot]

You guys run MAPs instead of MAFs?

[steve_protege]

yes its true our low compression helps boost more. valve job ??? u have an automatic ?

Yeah, never learned how to drive a stick.

[Shane5425]

going manual i think ... we will see ... im going to be seeing someone tomorrow about it. maybe he knows something better to do to my auto tranny

http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4F27epricing.htm rebuild kit 400 bucks..

[steve_protege]

Huh ??? We have the same compression as 2.0L's....9:1....

He asked with lower compression pistons could we run higher than 20 psi ?? I imagine you mean on otherwise stock internals ??? Possibly..that might be pushing it on stock rods,then again with GOOD tuning, maybe so......

Not necessarily higher than 20 PSI, but maybe starting lower first. Maybe with the lower CPs we could run 10-12 PSI without a whole lot of tranny slippage. But yeah, everything would be on stock internals until one gets a better valve job and torque converter. Then with the engine management and proper tuning, up over 20 PSI would be feasible.

[Shane5425]

You guys run MAPs instead of MAFs?

if i am not mistaken , hiboost runs a map 2 bar map sensor..

[MIA protege]

if i am not mistaken , hiboost runs a map 2 bar map sensor..

correct except 3 bar

[THEGOLDPRO]

nice, i got the same kit kinda, lol i got the same mani,turbo,downpipe, and i had the vortec but i sold it, and got a rising rate, i run 12 psi daily, and have yet to dyno it, but it feels real good. what FMIC are you getting??? and how are they gonna run the piping??? dont mind the diamond plate heatshield, i made a new one.
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/car%20pics%20003.jpg
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/HEATSHIELD%20BLACK%204.JPG
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/HEATSHIELD%20BLACK2.JPG
here is the new heatshield!
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/MAZDASPEED2.JPG





at the moment I'm running 5psi non-intercooled. it's a 2nd generation mitsubishi eclipse turbo custom welded by WagnerMotorSports. I bought the kit used which ran me 2200 including installation. fuel management is vortec 12:1. I've had the kit for almost a year and a half now. I had an oil leak coming from the oil pan the week after install which was a 400 dollar fix. Then about 6 months later the turbocharger itslef blew. I got a replacement off ebay with 7k miles for 150 bucks. no problems since. FMIC is due in july so I plan to up the boost (10ish). After that I'll put it on the dyno. The kit ran 165whp w/IC (not fmic) at 6psi off the protege it came off so we shall see.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Witchdoktor/IM002728.jpg

[THEGOLDPRO]

also i chose this intercooler because of how simple it was to run piping, if you get a traditional intercooler with the piping on either side of the intercooler then you will have to run the piping weird, and have more of it, i have very little piping with the setup i got, there for less lag.

also i have no idea what size piping you guys run, but i run 2 inch, and it is far better then the 2.5 inch i ran, when i ran 2.5 inch i had lag upto 3.5-4k, no i reach boost at like 2k, no lag what so ever.

[steve_protege]

also i chose this intercooler because of how simple it was to run piping, if you get a traditional intercooler with the piping on either side of the intercooler then you will have to run the piping weird, and have more of it, i have very little piping with the setup i got, there for less lag.

also i have no idea what size piping you guys run, but i run 2 inch, and it is far better then the 2.5 inch i ran, when i ran 2.5 inch i had lag upto 3.5-4k, no i reach boost at like 2k, no lag what so ever.

Just wanted to say that the new heatshield looks awesome. Where did you manage to find it? So instead of the normal 2.5 inch piping you run with intercoolers, you ran the smaller 2 inch piping and had less lag? How is that possible? How could you have more lag with bigger piping? Wouldn't it be vice versa? With the amounts of air coming into the IC, it would all have to then be constricted to fit in the smaller piping?

[THEGOLDPRO]

i made the new heatshield, then painted it, then slapped on a mazdaspeed decal.

it has less lag because its a small motor,with a small turbo, so if you go too big of a pipe it wont flow as good.i only speak from experiance, my old setup was 2.5 inch with a traditional type intercooler, and it felt shitty, no power belew like 3.5-4k, then all of a suddin boom power, with the new setup, and smaller piping i reach full boost much lower.

you gotta remember this isn't a twin turbo supra pushing assloads of air, its a small 1.6 litre.

[MIA protege]

interesting comments goldpro. im running 2.5' and it does hit full boost around 3.5k ... hmmm

what about ur exhaust ?

[MIA protege]

it has less lag because its a small motor,with a small turbo, so if you go too big of a pipe it wont flow as good.i only speak from experiance, my old setup was 2.5 inch with a traditional type intercooler, and it felt shitty, no power belew like 3.5-4k, then all of a suddin boom power, with the new setup, and smaller piping i reach full boost much lower.


im sure ur right, but theres 2 sides to this im sure also. theres ups and downs to running smaller piping. yeah u might reach full boost quicker with the smaller piping but u might be losing some power, im not saying a lot but im sure some. only way to tell would have been to dyno it with the 2.5 piping then with the 2' piping u got on there now. with the 2.5', it might take a lil longer to reach boost but less power is lost. im assuming here.

[Protege2K]

What good would that extra power do if you couldn't even use it til very high into the power band.

[MIA protege]

3.5k is not very high

[Protege2K]

That is very high when you consider the point he is barely spooling.

[MIA protege]

barely spooling ??? whatever u wanna think. i was just making a point that it can go both ways. people want different things. not everyone thinks like you or gold. you guys might want fast spooling while others want max power .

[Protege2K]

Having a dyno queen built for you I see. It woudl seem to me that since these cars are our daily drivers you would want quick spool time. Unless you just really like racing on the interstate. (yawn)

[MIA protege]

unless i like my gas

[Protege2K]

[God I hate to get into this kind of arguement] But, I bet my car with larger engine and quicker spooling turbo gets better gas mileage. A turbo won't hit boost the second you hit the gas, I can control mine with ease to get better gas mileage. Hell I think I get better gas mileage now then I did when I was N/A. That is of course when I drive normally.

[MIA protege]

i dont cuz im auto ... u can control your gas mileage a lot better when you have a manual. and greg i know u dont hit boost the second u hit the gas , relax, but 2k is veryy quick, maybe 2 seconds after u hit the gas lol

[steve_protege]

Wouldn't it make some sense to have the smaller piping to help it spool up faster. Then have other mods handle the power on the top end? What good is a turbo if you can't reach that top speed faster?? Right?

[Protege2K]

I can hit redline without going into boost. (It just takes a few miles ;))

[MIA protege]

u guys r thinking from the racing stand point. i dont race my car(i have an automatic lol). i just hit it when i get pissed and need to cut someone off or when im on the highway i want the high end power there to pass people. but me boosting early will do me no good. just get me more hype on the road once i hear that turbo spooling and i would always wanna be going faster.

[MIA protege]

I can hit redline without going into boost.

i cant

[THEGOLDPRO]

trust me i dont think im losing any power from running 2 inch piping, my car pulls hard from the time it hits boost (around 2-2.5k) till i hit redline, my boost gauge never goes below 10psi.
and as far as saving gas, i can drive it normal, and never see boost, even if im around 4k rpm,s its when i punch the gas, and it shoots upto 10 psi rather then creaping upto 10psi like it did with my 2.5 inch.

trust me here guys if your gonna run low boost 5-10 psi then you dont wanna run 2.5 inch piping, if your goping for 300 whp like juan, then yeah by all means go 2.5 inch, but for everyday use, and practically 2 inch is the way to go.

another reason i have less lag, is i have less intercooler piping, because my inlet, and outlet on my intercooler are on the same side, so i dont have to run it all funky to get it back to the TB, like the traditional intercooler, less piping= less lag.

[MIA protege]

exhaust is also 2' ?

[batmang]

this makes me want a 1.6. :o

[THEGOLDPRO]

my exhaust is 2.5 inch no cats.

[steve_protege]

my exhaust is 2.5 inch no cats.

So you have 2 inch piping for the intercooler and 2.5 inch for the exhaust? How does the car feel? Does it really "Zoom-Zoom" all the way through the power-band?

[THEGOLDPRO]

well i had it dynoed today, and i pushed 186whp, and 226wtq at 12 psi, with ZERO fuel tuning, i was running pig rich, im gonna buy the greddy e-manage, and tune it good, and hope for 20 or so more hp. dyno sheet will be posted soon.

[Protege2K]

congrats

When you see this Ben get on AIM.

[flat_black]

Guys, the reason you'd hit boost earlier in the rev band with smaller piping is a simple matter called pressure drop.

If you have a 2.5" pipe and a 2" pipe, pressurizing the 2.5" pipe will take longer, since the volume is higher. Hence the same argument over huge FMIC's. It's called pressure drop. Pressure, measured in PSI, is exactly that: Pounds per Square Inch... By reducing the volume, or the 'square inch', you're reducing the amount of force required for the turbocharger to pressurize the intake side of the piping, and accordingly, boost is built faster, and with less drag on the intake side of the turbocharger.

It's great to learn! (Because knowledge is power!) =)

[MIA protege]

well i had it dynoed today, and i pushed 186whp, and 226wtq at 12 psi, with ZERO fuel tuning, i was running pig rich, im gonna buy the greddy e-manage, and tune it good, and hope for 20 or so more hp. dyno sheet will be posted soon.

nice... thats an ass load of torque

[Shane5425]

well i had it dynoed today, and i pushed 186whp, and 226wtq at 12 psi, with ZERO fuel tuning, i was running pig rich, im gonna buy the greddy e-manage, and tune it good, and hope for 20 or so more hp. dyno sheet will be posted soon.

nice, thats a lot of trq, no wonder u spin those tires so easily .. weird though , mia is pusin 160 at 9 psi, i thought 3 more psi would have given u at least 35 to 40 more hp, but like u said no fuel tuneing..

[Protege2K]

You have to take into account the different turbos they are using. I believe Ben is still just using a tiny T25 off a 2g Eclipse. MIA is also completely tuned whereas Ben is just running off a FMU. The tuning is where that power difference can be best seen. I'm sure when Ben gets the Emanage he will unlock a ton of hidden power.

[Shane5425]

You have to take into account the different turbos they are using. I believe Ben is still just using a tiny T25 off a 2g Eclipse. MIA is also completely tuned whereas Ben is just running off a FMU. The tuning is where that power difference can be best seen. I'm sure when Ben gets the Emanage he will unlock a ton of hidden power.

that and if i remember right, the ihi turbo danny has puts out more cfm(?) than the 2g turbo does, therefor less boost more power.. i think.. correct me if i am wrong..

[THEGOLDPRO]

yeah danny's turbo is bigger then mine, and he is fully tuned, im just running an fmu, so no real tuning is possible, i was running crazy rich, if i lean it out across the board, and tweak some things ill gain alot for sure. but im happy with 225tq :)

[Shane5425]

yeah danny's turbo is bigger then mine, and he is fully tuned, im just running an fmu, so no real tuning is possible, i was running crazy rich, if i lean it out across the board, and tweak some things ill gain alot for sure. but im happy with 225tq :)

lol, i am sure those cv shafts love you .. hopefully they hold out..

[MIA protege]

i would like to see my numbers at 12psi ... i dont think my torque will be that high

my numbers at 9psi if i remmeber correctly were 163whp and 155wtq

[MIA protege]

and dont i lose power cuz of this shitty auto ? ... when juan dynoed the manual at 9psi , he got 181whp i think

[THEGOLDPRO]

yeah when i get the dyno sheet posted, you can see where my turbo falls on its face, at like 5k something it starts going down hill, so you can see where it loses its efficiancy, i made the 226 tq at 4k

[MIA protege]

thats damn good

[Shane5425]

and dont i lose power cuz of this shitty auto ? ... when juan dynoed the manual at 9psi , he got 181whp i think

yes the dreaded auto tranny...... grrrr....... i am prolly gonna blow the bitch up if i turbo/supercharge my car, i got a heavy foot.. lol

[THEGOLDPRO]

yeah his kit is def more efficiant then mine, but im still happy. once i get the e-manage in, ill bump it to 15 psi, and see what she does, my fuel curve was weird, and we didn't wanna push it much more.

but with some tuning on the e-manage, at the same 12psi, im looking for 200whp, and like 240-250 wtq, we will see.

[MIA protege]

my foot is pretty damn heavy .... im TRYING to blow it. soon , veryy soon

[THEGOLDPRO]

oh btw i just passed 100k too :)

[Shane5425]

yeah his kit is def more efficiant then mine, but im still happy. once i get the e-manage in, ill bump it to 15 psi, and see what she does, my fuel curve was weird, and we didn't wanna push it much more.

but with some tuning on the e-manage, at the same 12psi, im looking for 200whp, and like 240-250 wtq, we will see.

damn trq monster... lol

[MIA protege]

miles ???

just searched ... juan made 201whp with a manny at 9psi ... but he never mentioned the torque , hmmmm .. ur torque is crazy

[Shane5425]

my foot is pretty damn heavy .... im TRYING to blow it. soon , veryy soon

now whats so good about a blown tranny, lol, are you going manual? or clutch disk kit and overhaul that auto...

[THEGOLDPRO]

i know i was surprised at the tq as well, i was kinda mad about the 186 whp, then i saw the tq, and was like well shit im happy now, lol

[THEGOLDPRO]

and yes 100k miles.

[MIA protege]

now whats so good about a blown tranny, lol, are you going manual? or clutch disk kit and overhaul that auto...

whatever i can get my hands on ... next week imma go see bout overhauling this tranny ... juans brother knows a guy here in miami so imma see what needs to be done. if not, junk yard time to look for a manual.

[MIA protege]

damn ben ... 100k ... milestone lol ... im only at 62k

[THEGOLDPRO]

lol i know i stacked them on fast :(

[Shane5425]

haha, 45k
bought it with 32k 2 years ago this month

[Shane5425]

lol i know i stacked them on fast :(

how many of them are boosted?

[THEGOLDPRO]

i bought mine 4 years ago, with 20k on it.

[Shane5425]

i bought mine 4 years ago, with 20k on it.

DAMN!!! u racked alot of miles on that biatch ... in that amount of time... ill be lucky to hit 100k in 5 more years..

[THEGOLDPRO]

20k a year, lol thats not normal???

[Shane5425]

20k a year, lol thats not normal???

lol, not for me 10k is mine, but i do live 1 mile from work and 2 miles from school.. so that could be the reason.. lol

[MIA protege]

12k is normal lol ... i got mine with 20k in july 01 ...

[THEGOLDPRO]

hmmm well i guess i just drive more :)

[Shane5425]

gold pro, where is a good pic of your car? you will see why in like 15 min of why i need one..

[Shane5425]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1754393#post1754393

ill add u later gold pro, or u can add urself..

[THEGOLDPRO]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1754393#post1754393

ill add u later gold pro, or u can add urself..
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/MVC-TINT2.JPG

[THEGOLDPRO]

here is my graph.
http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/dyno%20graph.jpg

[Shane5425]

damn, ur right at 5k it just dies...

[Protege00dogg]

heres some pictures of my turbo before i attached an intercooler
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_47_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_48_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_46_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_45_full.jpg

[Shane5425]

sweet, so when u upgrading ur turbo system and sellin me ures for dirt cheap... lol

[THEGOLDPRO]

sweet, so when u upgrading ur turbo system and sellin me ures for dirt cheap... lollol who me?

[Shane5425]

lol, anyone...

[Shane5425]

damn, i guess no one is upgradeing.... lol, o well, hopefully ill be gettin those obx headers in a gb soon..

[TampaSport20]

yeah lol, after I/H/E and cam's, I just might be up with a stock 2.0.

(lol)

[steve_protege]

yeah lol, after I/H/E and cam's, I just might be up with a stock 2.0.

(lol)


Sad..... but oh soooo true!!

[THEGOLDPRO]

here are a few videos from it.
http://new.uksiland.com/imagez/GoldPro2.MPG
http://new.uksiland.com/imagez/GoldPro3.MPG
and one where the tach signal wasnt right, so its just the bov.
http://new.uksiland.com/imagez/GoldPro1.MPG
and here is the whole folder with all the cars that dynoed.
http://new.uksiland.com/imagez/

[P2K]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/pe1f2ed9846ffa543484c0cd0542285ed/f51ab396.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p65a49ca2a0be58bb91b9de103515771b/f51ab392.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid158/p61cc08df13549e827dc17ff71a835375/f51ab3a9.jpg
While I'm stuck out here in Iraq, my car is sitting in a storage unit on four jack stands.

As soon as I get back, I'm dropping it off at Juan's shop and letting him have at it. I was going for the 2.0 swap, but I changed my mind when I saw alot of you boosting the 1.6 and getting reasonable results. The 2.0 would have probably been a waste of time and money.

You guys saved me and my wallet alot of heartache. I'm sticking with the 1.6

Thanks



BTW, I have 140K+ on my engine and it's been sitting for 6 months now. It's from alot of trips back and forth from GA to TX.

Time for a new engine

[MIA protege]

nice videos ...

[MIA protege]

cant wait to see ur car back p2k ... always been a nice one

[Shane5425]

when u due back p2k?

[P2K]

Thanks MIA.

I'll be back sometime around Christmas, give or take a few weeks.

I already talked to Juan about dropping my car off when I get back. He said it was ok. I won't need my car back anytime soon since I just bought a 04 Mazda6 right before I left which will give him all the time he needs with no rush job.


I know the 1.6 can hold boost pretty good, and 20psi is about the limit. Is there anyone who makes or is willing make forged internals for it? Is it worth replacing the internals? What drivetrain upgrades are there for the tranny, bolt-on or custom? If it's possible, I want to run 12-15psi daily. Juan said he could probably get it up to 320hp on stock internals, which I think is insane.

Thanks

[Shane5425]

Thanks MIA.

I'll be back sometime around Christmas, give or take a few weeks.

I already talked to Juan about dropping my car off when I get back. He said it was ok. I won't need my car back anytime soon since I just bought a 04 Mazda6 right before I left which will give him all the time he needs with no rush job.


I know the 1.6 can hold boost pretty good, and 20psi is about the limit. Is there anyone who makes or is willing make forged internals for it? Is it worth replacing the internals? What drivetrain upgrades are there for the tranny, bolt-on or custom? If it's possible, I want to run 12-15psi daily. Juan said he could probably get it up to 320hp on stock internals, which I think is insane.

Thanks

u can put the miata 1.6l lightweight flywheel, we really dont need forged internals, anything after 300whp on a fwd car is just crazy, you would need very sticky tires ...

[P2K]

u can put the miata 1.6l lightweight flywheel, we really dont need forged internals, anything after 300whp on a fwd car is just crazy, you would need very sticky tires ...

I don't want a track car or anything. I just want the power for the highway. My friends talk shit about Proteges all the time, especially MSPs since they tend to blow when you mess with the engine even a little. Which is why you have to build them. My friends gave my car a name, The Slowtege. It's starting to piss me off so when I'm on the road I want to kick some ass, or atleast keep up. They have two 94 N/A 300zx's, a 95 Integra, and a 96 Civic.

People think my car is fast just by the way it looks and they try me everyday, I just want to prove them right. One day I counted how many people revved on me just for reference, 22. This was on a normal day. After 2F2F was even worse. Old guys in POS cars tried me and it annoyed the hell out of me. All I want to do is shut some people up about Proteges.

[Shane5425]

haha, so true, i had a quite a few cars rev on me, best part is they take off fast and burn out if they can, next thing u know they are gettin pulled over, as i pass i honk the horn and laugh at them..

[MIA protege]

i dont get revved at ... i hope to keep it that way

[arabamer2004]

hey wats going on guys. i herd alot of these forms from protegeclub where i orignally joined and have decided to join today, so i guess that makes me a new-bee to these forms!! anyhow i have been doing some reading and found somebody trying to modd up a 1.6l engine. i've been trying to modd up my protege lx dohc1.6L engine(yr-1999) to make it a little faster, but have no luck in finding decent engine parts. also i'm going to convert my auto drivetrain to manual and possibly swapping the engine with a speed6/miata engine?? anyhow hope you guys can give me some advice.

[arabamer2004]

heres some pictures of my turbo before i attached an intercooler
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_47_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_48_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_46_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/293000-293999/293025_45_full.jpg

damm hommie sweet ass pics (first) how long did it take you to do all of that engine work/how much?? any chance you can tell me where i can get a tranny for a 1999 pro lx(dohc 1.6L)!!

[2000lx5spd]

hey i have a 2000 pro lx 5spd, and i was wondering how high i can boost that with stock internals

[THEGOLDPRO]

hey i have a 2000 pro lx 5spd, and i was wondering how high i can boost that with stock internalsskys the limit

[Shane5425]

hey i have a 2000 pro lx 5spd, and i was wondering how high i can boost that with stock internals

most tested was 20 psi makin about 300whp

[Witchdoktor]

that boost level was raised for dyno purposes
GOLDPRO runs 12 on a daily basis, how much did biknman run?

[Protege2K]

how much did biknman run?
He is now on forged internals if I heard correctly.

[2000lx5spd]

k cause i am tired of camaros showing off when i know my car has the potential to whip their asses, (mostly stock 87 rs's round here) but i just wanted to know how high to push since there are not alot of experienced tuners within a 3 hour drive of here

[Witchdoktor]

the only 1.6 that I heard of going boom is someone in Protege2K's hometown, he said it was a custom job that was never tuned properly

[Shane5425]

daily, i would say run 12 to 15psi, if i remember correctly, once ben gets ems he is crankin it up a few psi, but a boosted 1.6l will kill those Camaro RS's.. without lookin back..

[THEGOLDPRO]

yeah i run 12 daily, engines good for it, once i get the e-manage and tune it better ill up the boost some more and dyno it again just to see, but ill prolly stay around 12 psi, not that im scared but its seriously too much power for the car, lol it just spins, and spins, and spins, lol

[Protege52003]

^^^^

goldpro's boosted 1.6 is sweet......

[THEGOLDPRO]

He is now on forged internals if I heard correctly. yeah i heard that rumor as well, but for the longest time he ran bone stock internals and was really pushing it he also went thru like 3 turbo setups, and just kept beating the balls off it, and it kept going.

[THEGOLDPRO]

^^^^

goldpro's boosted 1.6 is sweet...... thanks buddy :)

[Protege52003]

thanks buddy :) n/p i am jealous!

Check out his dyno videos here. GoldPro1, 2, and 3. Wish my car was this nice.....

Enjoy.

http://new.uksiland.com/imagez/

-ryan

[biknman]

Hay guys,

The little Gen3 1.6 MTX is a hell of a motor and Trans. I've been beating the hell out of mine with stock engine internals. The Trans has a Quaife LSD and a Miata 1.6 ATTCO light weight flywheel. We ran a Turbonetics T4 with a teal wastage full open for a full season (24psi of boost) on a Wangermotorpsorts.net setup. The only way we safely get away running that kind of boost was with proper fuel management and probably most important methanol injection. NOTE the Protégé was not street driven it was trailered to autocross event and maybe only saw 24psi one or twice per run with runs lasting under 1 minute. Also note at that time the motor and about 97K of miles on it of which about 15K of the miles where boosted. And the only problem noted was the front crank seal started leaking just a tiny bit. But that was only found after removing the crank pulleys for configuring a crank trigger for the AEM. OH the engine does a SF pulleys and cam gears. He is a pic of the latest set up:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p79f46c655098df1e70be314b18a3cc7d/f6533d19.jpg

http://http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p79f46c655098df1e70be314b18a3cc7d/f6533d19.jpg


I would say with proper fuel management (bigger injectors, and reliable fuel computer), methanol injection most important that operates an a curve with a MAP sensor controlling (see SMC or Aquamist), and safe motor monitoring (EGTs below 1100 will boosted heavy load and A/F ratio of 11:1 under boost no knock allowed) and low intake temps (FMIC) on a MTX trans you could get away with 12psi but that would be the limit I would run on the street with out beefing up internals. I would feel safer with a boost controller running 8psi most of the time and only on special occasion i.e. owning a Mustang run 12psi!



This winter budget willing I plan on building a short block and a nice set of heads. The short block would be stroked to 1.8L with forged internals, compression probably around 9:1 for good of boost torque and that could handle around 18psi of boost. The heads I’ll try and get as much flow out of them as I can (PnP bigger valves etc) with valve train that can support up to 8000 to 8500rpms (TI/mag retainers and such, double springs, shimless buckets, SS sodium valves, custom cams). We’ll probably also ditch the oil pan and convert to a dry sump to keep everything super lubed and an external electric water pump to keep the whole setup and the perfect operating temp. Remember this is a trailer race car not a street better used for hill climbs track stuff (ITE class) and an occasional autocross (EM class).

More pics check link in my signature :)! I recenly add a WRX album with my 350whp 2.5l WRX Wagon.

[mazpro]

that's crazy man, 8500rpms on a protege!!

so you ran 24psi on the stock internals at the autocross right?

[MIA protege]

damn 24 psi ... on a T4 ?????????? thats crazy. on a t25 u should be safe with 15 daily then right ?

[biknman]

that's crazy man, 8500rpms on a protege!!

so you ran 24psi on the stock internals at the autocross right?

YES

[THEGOLDPRO]

with proper fuel management, and an engine that you know you took care of, i would have no problem running 15psi daily, only real problem i can see will be traction. but you need to use your best judgement, like dont beat the fuck outa the car ALL the time, lol

[biknman]

damn 24 psi ... on a T4 ?????????? thats crazy. on a t25 u should be safe with 15 daily then right ?

I would not do it unless you have good fuel management (monitor with wide band A/F meter 11:1 see AEM UGEO) and some way to keep out detonation and keep the EGTs low with that mentioned the stock pistons rods and crack should be ok but I wouldn’t count on the bearings and it depends on how while you have taken or taking care of the engine. Also I think at a daily street driven 15psi the internals of the Manual Transmission (MTX) needs to be beefed up as well, maybe some cryo treatment to the gears. You could get away with a stock trans if you don't run to super heavy duty clutch and allow the clutch to slip a little, but that means replacing the friction disc often depending on how you drive. If you have a ATX I have no idea what the auto transmission is capable of.

[MIA protege]

If you have a ATX I have no idea what the autotranmisson is capable of.

absolutely nothing lol

[biknman]

with proper fuel management, and an engine that you know you took care of, i would have no problem running 15psi daily, only real problem i can see will be traction. but you need to use your best judgement, like dont beat the fuck outa the car ALL the time, lol

THEGOLDPRO is right, torque steer and especially wheels hop are problem with the PROs so some attention needs to be applied to the suspension, differential, axles, and type of rubber used.

[Mr. Win]

so MIA want to feel us in on how you blew your tranny?

[mazpro]

you blew your tranny? how?

[Shane5425]

to much power, makes auto go boom boom..

[THEGOLDPRO]

time for a manual tranny swap.

[Mr. Win]

^yep

[THEGOLDPRO]

which i also think is long overdue ;)

[MIA protege]

hey hey ... i dont think im going manual so shoot me lol ... im ordering tranny from lentech ... i dont know how i blew it :)

[THEGOLDPRO]

damn d0od just go manual, lol you can prolly buy a manual tranny, and have it installed for alot less then your gonna pay for the auto one.

[Protege2K]

Exactly, not sure why you are so attached to having a FI auto car?

[THEGOLDPRO]

hmmmmmm i was wondering the same thing maybe he cant drive a stick.

[Protege2K]

I've ridden in a few automatic turbo cars, and I just can't possibly imagine how someone would want to keep that setup. I could understand if your auto was still in good condition and you just didn't want to go through the trouble, but you have a perfect opportunity right now to make you car much better to drive. *shrugs*

[THEGOLDPRO]

yeah i dunno, i always loved your car mia, just the automatic turned me off from it :( please do us all a favor and just tranny swap it, lol

[MIA protege]

lol ... im doing what i wanna do. i dont feel like learning to drive stick at this point.

greg i didnt know a FI car has to be stick ... get over it. its not ur car

[THEGOLDPRO]

lol ... im doing what i wanna do. i dont feel like learning to drive stick at this point.

greg i didnt know a FI car has to be stick ... get over it. its not ur carfair enough, lol

[MIA protege]

i dont know how to drive stick too well and dont feel like sitting down and learning right now. especially here in miami stuck in traffic driving stick, illl shoot myself. im lazy, an auto is good enough for me. most drag cars are auto so autos cant slow u down that much. i know my car is not a drag car but if its a car i can sit back and step on it and actually move, im good .

[Mr. Win]

boo... from an ex protege turbo owner to a current. The car is so much more fun to drive when its stick. Do what you want though. Id love to see a built lentech as well and how it does at the track.

[Shane5425]

might be funner to drive on courses and shit, but in bumper to bumper trafic its a bitch...

[Protege2K]

greg i didnt know a FI car has to be stick ... get over it. its not ur car
There is a first time for everything, maybe after you learn how to drive a stick I can show you how to change your own oil.

[MIA protege]

There is a first time for everything, maybe after you learn how to drive a stick I can show you how to change your own oil.

yea please do

[Witchdoktor]

added 1987-1992 style toyota supra intercooler. perfect for my needs. adequate size to the 2nd gen mitsubishi eclipse turbo. decent fit behind the sport20 bumper (though not perfect). inlet and outlet are on same size which means less piping, thus less lag. piping is 2" stainless steel. the intercooler is black and the piping to it was painted black so it can't be seen unless you get down and look through the grill mesh. very noticeable difference now while keeping everything at 6psi. no dyno numbers at the moment but a guestimate would be around 160. next upgrade will be bumping the boost to 12psi with ems, injectors, and fuel pump.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Witchdoktor/IM002749.jpg
__________________

[THEGOLDPRO]

NOICE!!!!!! lol now go take off the bumper and take pics, lol

[MIA protege]

fmic where ?

[Witchdoktor]

I am way too lazy to take off the bumper for pics so here
courtesy of THEGOLDPRO

same FMIC, same size piping, only difference is the piping doesn't wrap around at the bottom, a hole was cut next to the headlight so the piping might be a bit shorter as it's more of a direct path to the turbo and mani.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/car%20pics%20003.jpg

[mazpro]

nice man, that looks awsome.

[THEGOLDPRO]

sweet!, lol well im happy it all worked out for you!

[steve_protege]

I see you boosted up to levels of 12 PSI. How is the car holding up? Having any problems? What's your "daily driver" PSI set at?




sweet!, lol well im happy it all worked out for you!

[THEGOLDPRO]

I see you boosted up to levels of 12 PSI. How is the car holding up? Having any problems? What's your "daily driver" PSI set at?i run like 10psi daily, no problems at all!!!!

[Shane5425]

I see you boosted up to levels of 12 PSI. How is the car holding up? Having any problems? What's your "daily driver" PSI set at?

hell, look at bikman, boosting 20+psi on the track.. but then again, he has a all out race car..

[steve_protege]

i run like 10psi daily, no problems at all!!!!


Not bad... Yours is a stick though, right? Did you do anything to your tranny?

[steve_protege]

hell, look at bikman, boosting 20+psi on the track.. but then again, he has a all out race car..



Yeah..... thats not going to help me out any. I seriously think my car is ever going to see a track. Mine is a daily driver and thats about it. Maybe every now and then I'll open it up on the highway or a backroad, but I don't think a track. I might go to watch, but thats about it.

[THEGOLDPRO]

Not bad... Yours is a stick though, right? Did you do anything to your tranny?yeah stick, nothing done to tranny sept ACT clutch

[TampaSport20]

yeah stick, nothing done to tranny sept ACT clutch


Didnt you have that clutch WAY before the turbo was on ???

[THEGOLDPRO]

Didnt you have that clutch WAY before the turbo was on ???yep, i had it for like 2 years before i went turbo, lol still got it, awesome clutch never once slipped, i still cant make it slip.

[99 Pro]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but just had a couple questions for you guys that turboed your 1.6L Protege. I am a total turbo noob, so please go easy on me.

How many different types of turbos are out there for the Protege?
Which is the best one?
What other upgrades must you make to your stock motor to get everything running properly?
Can you expect about +50-60 more HP?
Do you have to run higher octane gas? What type?

Once again, sorry if these are dumb questions. Just trying to learn more about possibly turboing my car. Thanks fellas!

[Shane5425]

How many different types of turbos are out there for the Protege?
3, Hiboost, ihi turbo or t25 both great
tsi turbo kit, bad fitment
Which is the best one?
Hiboost
What other upgrades must you make to your stock motor to get everything running properly?
High performance clutch
hiboost kit comes with everythign u need.
Can you expect about +50-60 more HP?
no, u can expect 100 to 120 more with hiboost, a 100 pecent increase, on moderate every day boost,
Do you have to run higher octane gas? What type?
yes , 93 octane as all turbo charged cars have to..


damn , i know all this shit and i dont even have a turbo... tsk tsk tsk..

[biknman]

The entry level minimum for force inducting a Protege would be the following: You want to use a small turbo like a stock WRX or an Eclipse the T25 is perfect. Only run about 6-8 psi of boost which can be done with the waste gate spring, fuel management can be taken care easily by a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. Mods to car will be of course the exhaust manifold for the turbo, an inter cooler of some sort stay small and keep the IC pipes small, and lastly the stock clutch will not hold the 40% increase in power from 6 psi of boost so a stage 1 or 2 clutch upgrade needs to be done. Also to free up the boost spool up a 2 ½”+ free flowing exhaust system is recommended. Checkout www.wagnermotorsports.net (http://www.wagnermotorsports.net/) . NOTE for safety a simple water/alcohol injection setup will safe guard your motor see www.snowperformance.com (http://www.snowperformance.com). With the above setup I dyno 147whp in a 99 1.6 Protégé MTL completely stock was 87whp and but over 30,000 trouble free boosted miles on the car with no problems.

Best adise I could give is to read the FI bible by CorkyBell titled Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0837601606/qid=1129672130/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-2891817-1603221?v=glance&s=books

Good Luck

Examples of Andrew wrok at www.WagnerMotorsports.net (http://www.wagnermotorsports.net/)

My 03 WRX Wagon

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid191/pd31395c484bc624373fe44c0b7505072/f1dcbe07.jpg

My 03 ITE 1.6L 99 Protege

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid146/p79f46c655098df1e70be314b18a3cc7d/f6533d19.jpg

[Shane5425]

ummm, danny asked wagner if he was still makin the 1.6l manifolds, he said no.. cause i was gonna get one ..

[biknman]

ummm, danny asked wagner if he was still makin the 1.6l manifolds, he said no.. cause i was gonna get one ..

He'll make one as long as you use the turbo he specs because of all the turbo inlets and outlets orientations. Plus the down pipe orientation and fitment. He can't make one if you want to use your on turbo with out having the car at his shop so he get the orientation of the turbo ins and outs correct. I hope this explains. If you but the whole set up from Andy no worries. Other wise you'll have to take the car to him so he can get the fitment right. Really the only right way to do it if you want it done right and the only way Andy does business so his products of the highest quality.

[Shane5425]

i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.

[biknman]

If one where to buy the turbo, manifold, and down pipe from Andy they’d be good to go. There are tons of universal FMIC kits out there search e-bay and I think vibrant has one. A FMIC is not really that hard to fab up. Get some 2" 90s, 45s, and straight pipe then some silicon hose and clamp a conquest FMIC or one smaller and you’re set. And on the intake side just use a cheap ram air intake, bam you have a turbo installed don't forget the FPR for 6psi use one that is around 4:1 meaning four pounds of extra fuel pressure for every pound of boost. Tune with a good AFR gauge 14.7:1 in vacuum and 12.1:1 under boost and an EGT gauge with temps no higher than 1200 F while at 6psi for 15 seconds or so and your done a basic turbo set up.

QUOTE=shaneMazda2000P]i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.[/QUOTE]

[TampaSport20]

If one where to buy the turbo, manifold, and down pipe from Andy they’d be good to go. There are tons of universal FMIC kits out there search e-bay and I think vibrant has one. A FMIC is not really that hard to fab up. Get some 2" 90s, 45s, and straight pipe then some silicon hose and clamp a conquest FMIC or one smaller and you’re set. And on the intake side just use a cheap ram air intake, bam you have a turbo installed don't forget the FPR for 6psi use one that is around 4:1 meaning four pounds of extra fuel pressure for every pound of boost. Tune with a good AFR gauge 14.7:1 in vacuum and 12.1:1 under boost and an EGT gauge with temps no higher than 1200 F while at 6psi for 15 seconds or so and your done a basic turbo set up.

QUOTE=shaneMazda2000P]i get what ur sayin, way to much distance away form me.[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying Dave...however Andy's customer service has been SOOOOOOO horrible lately, most people on the board are counting him out as a vendor

However Juan has said he will sell a manifold and downpipe seperately that will work with a T25

[biknman]

Ya poor Andy makes such a quality product that he is swamped with demands for all his stuff. He is just a one man show which doesn’t allow for fabing and welding all day and answering the phone all day answering questions like, "what is a blow off valve? And how much horse power will it give me? Joey Jerk off says its worth 10 to 15 horses at the wheels easy on my NA Civic, oh and I have to ask my mom for $50 does cost more than that.?" He has done some major restructuring of his business lately and is only focusing on turbo fabrication and exhaust systems his specialty. So hopefully things will get better.





I hear what you are saying Dave...however Andy's customer service has been SOOOOOOO horrible lately, most people on the board are counting him out as a vendor

However Juan has said he will sell a manifold and downpipe seperately that will work with a T25[/QUOTE]

[TampaSport20]

Ya poor Andy makes such a quality product that he is swamped with demands for all his stuff. He is just a one man show which doesn’t allow for fabing and welding all day and answering the phone all day answering questions like, "what is a blow off valve? And how much horse power will it give me? Joey Jerk off says its worth 10 to 15 horses at the wheels easy on my NA Civic, oh and I have to ask my mom for $50 does cost more than that.?" He has done some major restructuring of his business lately and is only focusing on turbo fabrication and exhaust systems his specialty. So hopefully things will get better.


Not to thread jack, but you should read some of the threads about Wagner lately....he is developing quite the reputation for NOT having quality product....

Maybe you could help him out by talking to him, and get him to respond on here....Quite a few people are getting frustrated with him

[biknman]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums. Man has not even raced a car in over two years what fun is that? Image to be in the business of making cars fast and don't even have time to enjoy them yourself. Two of his own vehicles have been rusting in the back of the shop for going on three years now that is a crying shame. With all the vehicles Andy has products for he could spend a 60 hours a week just keeping up with post on forums forget about all the phones calls, e-mails, customers coming by bugging him about a stupid body kit for a Civic for two hours only to learn that $400 they got for Christmas isn't going to cover it. Same reasons I really don't post on forums anymore, you wouldn’t believe some of the dumb-ass questions I get daily and I very, very rarely post and I don’t make anything but for myself. One reason Wagner Motorsports is closing and going to be restructured so he can focus on quality limited amount of product. Hell if you call a plumber or an electrician etc they usually charge a minimum of $100 just to come out for look (DC area). In my industry (telecoms) for some basic engineering support or design work better have a huge checkbook. Even basic phone tech support is double what the plumber gets. And Andrew will spends hours upon hours talking to folks educating them, designing a setup for them, just to have his time wasted. The worst is a young guy brings in his car all excited, "Yo man I need some boost please, please hook me up bro!" So Andy invests four or five hours talking to the customer to sale and design setup for his applications and goals, customer agrees brings car in, then is there everyday wants this and what’s that so he never gets to concentrate on the work and takes him twice as long, gets it all done and dyno tuned putten down mad hosrse safely of course it's beautiful then BAM! Time for payment, oh you mean a one off setup with a custom Sparco FMIC all mirror polish pipes with a Turbonetics; BOV, external Wastage, T4 ceramic ball bearing turbo, a custom mandrel bent 3 inch Stainless exhaust and manifold with a standalone fuel management with 10 hours dyno time is more than $1000? But that's all I got left over from my college loan, I’m going to have to call my daddy. Shit like that we’ll kill any business and you have to admit there are a ton of dump-ass kids in the tuner market. Wagner Motorsports has grown way to fast for a one man show. Andy’s incredible run of bad luck with employees and or partnerships has cost him his business. Hell in the last year alone he has had dumb-ass employees and freaking business partnerships have cost him almost $100K in losses. Plus his shop was ripped off a few months ago setting him more than a year behind or some projects. But I give Andy credit an excellent racecar engineer and fabricator one of the best I think, but not so good at the business side of things but not because he can’t just not enough hours in the day, mix the two and stuff gets dropped out. But I've seen it hundreds of times, great guys that do damn good work, get eaten up by the business. Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porshe and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porshe or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.
:)



Not to thread jack, but you should read some of the threads about Wagner lately....he is developing quite the reputation for NOT having quality product....

Maybe you could help him out by talking to him, and get him to respond on here....Quite a few people are getting frustrated with him

[TampaSport20]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums.
:)


He has had plenty of time to come on here and pimp product (uhm)....I'm not trying to argue with you.As a matter of fact I tried defending him! But the MULTITUDE of posts I got responding about bad,leaky headers and downpipes,or receiving the wrong product all together was tremendous!!! People have posted replies complaining about service in threads HE started and he hasnt responded to one of them. We aren't talking about civic guys here that don't have money to pay him....I'm referring to customers who ALREADY paid him hard earned money for product, and didnt get what they paid for. Just please see if you can talk to him about responding to these complaints, or he will continue to lose business. There has already been talk of revoking his vendor status here.

[Shane5425]

I have been talking to Andrew and I've been sending him all these post. Andy usually works a 16 hour day 7days a week just trying to keep up with fab work so with what little free time he has he tries to spend it with his family, he is not going to waste it on forums. Man has not even raced a car in over two years what fun is that? Image to be in the business of making cars fast and don't even have time to enjoy them yourself. Two of his own vehicles have been rusting in the back of the shop for going on three years now that is a crying shame. With all the vehicles Andy has products for he could spend a 60 hours a week just keeping up with post on forums forget about all the phones calls, e-mails, customers coming by bugging him about a stupid body kit for a Civic for two hours only to learn that $400 they got for Christmas isn't going to cover it. Same reasons I really don't post on forums anymore, you wouldn’t believe some of the dumb-ass questions I get daily and I very, very rarely post and I don’t make anything but for myself. One reason Wagner Motorsports is closing and going to be restructured so he can focus on quality limited amount of product. Hell if you call a plumber or an electrician etc they usually charge a minimum of $100 just to come out for look (DC area). In my industry (telecoms) for some basic engineering support or design work better have a huge checkbook. Even basic phone tech support is double what the plumber gets. And Andrew will spends hours upon hours talking to folks educating them, designing a setup for them, just to have his time wasted. The worst is a young guy brings in his car all excited, "Yo man I need some boost please, please hook me up bro!" So Andy invests four or five hours talking to the customer to sale and design setup for his applications and goals, customer agrees brings car in, then is there everyday wants this and what’s that so he never gets to concentrate on the work and takes him twice as long, gets it all done and dyno tuned putten down mad hosrse safely of course it's beautiful then BAM! Time for payment, oh you mean a one off setup with a custom Sparco FMIC all mirror polish pipes with a Turbonetics; BOV, external Wastage, T4 ceramic ball bearing turbo, a custom mandrel bent 3 inch Stainless exhaust and manifold with a standalone fuel management with 10 hours dyno time is more than $1000? But that's all I got left over from my college loan, I’m going to have to call my daddy. Shit like that we’ll kill any business and you have to admit there are a ton of dump-ass kids in the tuner market. Wagner Motorsports has grown way to fast for a one man show. Andy’s incredible run of bad luck with employees and or partnerships has cost him his business. Hell in the last year alone he has had dumb-ass employees and freaking business partnerships have cost him almost $100K in losses. Plus his shop was ripped off a few months ago setting him more than a year behind or some projects. But I give Andy credit an excellent racecar engineer and fabricator one of the best I think, but not so good at the business side of things but not because he can’t just not enough hours in the day, mix the two and stuff gets dropped out. But I've seen it hundreds of times, great guys that do damn good work, get eaten up by the business. Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porshe and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porshe or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.
:)


well, said.. i talked to danny, (silver pro with wagner setup) and he said the cars at andys shop make proteges look like matchbox cars.. so i guess we are lucky we have some support from guys like that, sorry to hear about him gettin riped off..

[newguy32]

here is an example of the fine work...

end of an intercooler pipe...

love it dont ya

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/cbrd/wagnerquality.jpg

[THEGOLDPRO]

here is an example of the fine work...

end of an intercooler pipe...

love it dont ya

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/cbrd/wagnerquality.jpg
looks ok to me.

[biknman]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting shit right in shipping or taking orders. That’s the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky he’ll restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.




He has had plenty of time to come on here and pimp product (uhm)....I'm not trying to argue with you.As a matter of fact I tried defending him! But the MULTITUDE of posts I got responding about bad,leaky headers and downpipes,or receiving the wrong product all together was tremendous!!! People have posted replies complaining about service in threads HE started and he hasnt responded to one of them. We aren't talking about civic guys here that don't have money to pay him....I'm referring to customers who ALREADY paid him hard earned money for product, and didnt get what they paid for. Just please see if you can talk to him about responding to these complaints, or he will continue to lose business. There has already been talk of revoking his vendor status here.

[newguy32]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting shit right in shipping or taking orders. That’s the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky he’ll restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.


meh,

i watched those pipes get made, but until i took them off i didnt notice the ends....

i think when u see people come and go, its generally the fault of the employer. People want to associate themselves with perfection, and need a leader.... when someone isnt a good leader or doesnt set a good example, their employees will follow suit.

food for thought

[newguy33]

Ya sorry, but a lot of the f'd up work folks have received or did not receive was not necessarily at the hands of Andy. But rather one of the many temp welders want to be fabricators he has hired and fired just because of work like the ones posted. Or the front office guy and gals (he has been though many in two years) not getting shit right in shipping or taking orders. That’s the reason he is closing Wagner Motorsports and if we are all lucky he’ll restructure his business and be back and make quality products for us like he did several years ago.

Get real. All of the stuff that has left Wagner's has passed through Andrew's hands personally. You know only what you are told personally by Andrew and nothing of fact or should I say reality. I mean come on how can one person have so much bad luck? How long has it been since your Wagner Turbo'd Protege has even ran? Whose fault is that?

It is never Andrew's fault, it is always someone else's. Be it an employee, a vendor or the customer themselves. Wagner never takes responsibility for any of his actions and always blames someone else. Just look at his response to the thread a couple of weeks ago:

All of the headers have shipped. There were 2 headers that were cracked and I fixed them. I have not been contacted about any other problems(with wookmanship). I had a guy in the office that was taking care of the GB buy and things did not go well. I am not putting the blame on him because we have bad employee problems we got behind. Jet hot also sent headers to the wrong people. I am not sure if my guy sent jet hot the wrong addresses or if it was jet hot did it. He did end up screwing things up. He does not work here anymore. And I am doing all of the GBs now.

Right there he states he is not putting the blame on the "office guy" but 3 sentences later the "office guy" screwed the GB up. He also blames the GB problems on “bad employee problems”. Yet again, he himself has not taken any responsibility for anything here. It is always someone else's fault!!! I know the "office guy" that worked at the counter/office(if you can call it that) and the reason he left Wagner's shop was because Wagner constantly screwed him over and never made good on any of his promises. The "office guy" didn't even get paid to work there. He was just helping out a friend who in turn screwed him over BIG TIME! This "office guy" lent Wagner over 6 grand and is still waiting to get his money back...Plus he had $2500.00 worth of parts get stolen and Wagner hasn't made any effort to reimburse him, because Wagner didn't even have theft insurance on his shop! I think the "office guy" is going to make a post on here soon exposing what really went on at Wagner's so be on the look out for that thread.

This has got to stop. There are so many people that have been ripped off or are currently being ripped off(You know who you are) on this forum, that it is incredible he is allowed to pedal parts here. Stop, Open up your Eyes and realize what is going on. He is a con artist, a thief and a liar. Enough is Enough.

And just an FYI...He isn't closing to restructure his shop. He's closing because his Dyno and Mandrel Bender are getting repossessed and he owes his vendors, ex-friends, and even past/present customers in excess of over $65,000.00 with no hope of ever paying them off.

[blustreak]

Lastly you think Protege folks spend money you should see that amount of money spent by lets say the STI or EVO market then move up to the S4 and M3 guys then move up to the Porsche and Ferri guys makes the Protege customer a waste of time compared to the Porsche or Ferri customer. We should be lucky to have guys like Andy even bothering with a strut bar for the cars we drive.







I currently own a Subaru and a Protege5. I have owned 2 Eclipse GSX's in the past and parents have owned 5 Porsche's in their lifetime. You are correct owners of the cars you mentioned do spend a lot of money on their cars. I once spent $1000.00 on a custom tubular exhaust mani for one of my Eclipse's. My parents have spent in excess of $2,000.00 on an exhaust system for their 993.



Regardless of what I have spent on my cars or my parents send on theirs, quality product is quality product. When someone buys an OBX header, they know what they are getting, which as stated on these boards, is a lot of bang for the buck. When I pay $250.00 for a header, it better look better than the 179.00 OBX headers. Unfortunately this header form Wagner Motorsports does not. I was not expecting a beautifully polished SS header like a DC header for the Hondas, I was expecting the runners to match up, the collector to be flat, and the exhaust flange to not be warped. If my mani for my Eclipse came to me this way, I would almost guarantee all DSM owners in my area would no longer consider Wagner Motorsport for parts. I feel the same holds true for any tight knit car community. When a vendor starts burning customers, the vendors just disappear.



I understand about people coming in and asking questions, and wanting the fastest in the world for $1000.00. In my business, I get this all of the time with brides wanting to do a dream wedding but only have $3000.00 to spend. If Mr. Wagner spends all of his time building theses amazing turbo systems before he gets paid then it is no wonder that he owes everybody money. I do not even set the room for an event until I have a sizeable deposit. Bad business sense is no excuse. He needs to start showing some GOOD business sense and start resolving these issues before word gets out beyond the Mazda community and all he is left with is the lucrative Hyundai and Daewoo market.



If he has fallen on hard times I feel for him, but business is business and he needs to own up and compensate accordingly.



Thank you for your time.

[luwe]

Just to get the topic back on track do you think a T3 would be too big for the zm-de? At what rpm do you think boost would kick in?

[Shane5425]

i think a t3 for daily driver would be to big, a t25 or a ihi vf29(if i recall correctly, hiboost turbo) would be your best bet.

[AzteCypher]

Hey GoldPro, what kind of intercooler are you running? In other words, who makes it or did you pull it off another car?

[MIA protege]

i think a t3 for daily driver would be to big, a t25 or a ihi vf29(if i recall correctly, hiboost turbo) would be your best bet.

IHI VF24

[Shane5425]

Hey GoldPro, what kind of intercooler are you running? In other words, who makes it or did you pull it off another car?

toyota supra