Bent plug electrode

[crashed]

Help. I was coming home and suddently I lost power and the engine felt like it was running on only 3 cyclinders. It happened right after I was up-shifting at 6k rpm going up a steep hill. My engine just turned 50K.

Pulled the plugs after engine cooled and found one of the plug's ground electrode bent down against the center electrode. The top of the ground electrode does not seem to have been hit by the piston. Also, there is gas and oil in the cyclinder. The plugs have about 10k. I've only redline to 75K rpm once about a thousand miles ago. My engine did suddently died from a stop light once but it started right up again. Any idea what happened?(shrug)

Going to get new plug to see what happens.

[crashed]

Just installed new plug and engined fired right up but it idles rough and the check engine light is flashing. Drove back and forth about 100ft with just slight hesitation at initial acceleration but does not seem to have lost any power. Thought about draining the oil to check for metal shavings but I think I'll just bring it to the dealer in the morning. (uhm)

[viVid]

Well, something had to hit that electrode... and there should be no detectable oil in the cylinder. Definitely take it to the dealer, but I wouldn't drive it there.

[garretts77]

My plug gap was crushed once by one of the screws working loose of the VICS or VTCS system. Was the car rattling at all before the hesitation?

[BlkZoomZoom]

Another VICS screw come loose?

[mogi]

I'd hit an autozone or checker or something before you get to the dealer and read the CEL code yourself. Gives you a bit of an edge if you have to heckle with the dealer about repairs! Might even be something you can fix yourself...

[LinuxRacr]

This is the same exact thing that happened to Moeed's car a few weeks ago. Take it in for warranty repair. Chances are the screw(s) from the VICS fell out and got sucked into the engine. There is a TSB (Technical Service Bulliten) on the matter.

[RaiderMP5]

I searched, but I could not find out what is VICS, and is it something we can make sure is tight. I hate my local stealership, and really do not want to hassle with them, if I can do something about it before it happens.

[garretts77]

The CEL will flash when a cyl is not firing. Mine did the same. Here is what ahppened with mine:

Check Engine light on- pulled code P0304
Cylinder 4 misfire
Fuel system 1 closed
load 29%
ECT 181.4F
SFT1 3.91%
LFT1 0%
RPM 3540
VS 75.823
Spark Adv 37.5
IAT 71.6 MAF 19 G/S TP 16.5
Removed #4 spark plug and found gap smashed!
removed intake and found 2 loose variable timing control butterfly's and screws missing on #3 and #4 cylinder!
removed #3 spark plug and found gap OK
inspected inside cylinder and found OK
replaced intake manifold and gasket
replaced throttle body gasket
replaced injector fuel rail with updated one and transfer injectors and pressure regulator

[Protege52003]

going to check my plugs this week becasue i had some major rattling in the engine last week. coming up to 50K and warranty will be over soon.....

[garretts77]

If we are talking about the same thing, if there is a rattle, then the screw is already out. You can retrieve it by pulling the primary cat. It should be sitting in there. And you can fix it byt pulling the Intake Manifold and screwing it back in. I would reccomend some Locktite on the threads. Ans while you are in there, pull the VTCS system. There is a thread in the how-to section...

[Protege52003]

pretty sure the screen going into my pre-cat is gone.....when i installed my factory header casting back in my car, i think i forgot to put it back in.....not really in the mood to remove the factory casting again. she has been running good since that one day a couple weeks ago......

[Protege52003]

....i will see how my plugs look before really doing anything else. they have under 8K on them, probably less....

[crashed]

Thanks guys I'll check it out first thing tomorrow morning. It was the #4 cylinder's plug that got smashed.

The engine did not rattle or even gave a hint that something had happened. It just lost power. I did, however, hear a couple of tink, tink while I was driving the last mile home. I'm not sure I have the time to repair it myself since this is my work car and I have a full work load tomorrow and we are short handed this week. Just might have to drop it off at the dealer and use my other car.

Garretts77, why did you have to replace your intake manifold and fuel rail?

[garretts77]

Garretts77, why did you have to replace your intake manifold and fuel rail?

Screws came from the intake manifold. I guess rather than open it up and put new screws in, they decide to replace the whole thing. They told me that there is an updated fuel rail as well, and it is replaced when they encounter this problem. Mine was fixed under warranty. It probably would have been pretty pricey otherwise...

[crashed]

Just came back from the dealer and they wanted $1245 for the repair. $750 for the intake manifold, $150 for what I presume is the fuel rail and $350 for labor. Writer said it takes over 4 hours to replace because they have to lift the engine. I told him I'll think about it.

So here's my questions. Does the engine really have to be lifted to remove the intake manifold or was he giving me BS to justify the labor cost? Can the valves be fixed without replacing the manifold and if it can, who has done it?

Thanks guys.

[evilmonkeyMSP]

no warranty?

[Ryoga28]

My engine just turned 50K.

I think he just hit the end of his warranty.

[evilmonkeyMSP]

oooooo that sucks

[garretts77]

You can remove the intake manifold without removing the engine. There is a lot to disconnect, but it can be done. When you say "valves", I assume that you are talking about the butterfly valves that are located inside of the intake manifold. There are two sets. VICS is deeper inside the manifold. I think this is where the screws are usually coming out. If you can find your screws and replace them, it should be fine. If not, it might be hard to find replacement screws. I would put locktite on all of the screws to prevent it from happening again. The other set of butterflies are the VTCS. This can be removed and will give a slight power increase, as well as getting rid of that annoying cold start rattle, and possibly better fuel economy. There is a thread in the how-to section on removing and porting the intake manifold. I would do it since you are already in there...

Another option would be to source a used intake manifold from a wrecker. I suggest www.car-part.com (http://www.car-part.com) The Protege intake mani is two parts, so you will need both the lower and the upper manifold. I have seen them go for as little as $25 per half. I would still reccomend that you locktite the screws and remove VTCS though... Doing it this way would simply allow you to do the work before you have to remove the original intake manifold.

As far as the fuel rail goes, It might be updated to fit on the replaced intake manifold. I don't know if there is something that is different about the new manifold, or if it is an exact replacement. I would say to forget the fuel rail, since your works fine...

[crashed]

Thanks garretts77. (bowdown) I checked out the manifold and the engine definitely do not need lifting. Any suggestiion on where exactly in the exhaust I should look for the screws? One of the replies said there is a TSB on this problem but alldata.com did not have one for the P5 so I might purchase the Protege to see if it contains this TSB.

The manifolds are going for about $75 for each half. I only found parts for Proteges not P5s. Are they the same? Is it possible to remove just the upper half for the repair? If I have to pull the manifold I would definetly do what you suggested.

What is really funny is when I was driving home from the dealer the check engine light turned off and the engine ran like nothing had happened. I'm not the one that does not take chances so I drove it all day putting on more than 100 miles and it ran fine with no rough idle.(2thumbs) I hope I'm not taking a chance of doing some major damage. Looks like I have a project for the coming 3 day weekend. Thanks again(cabpatch)

[garretts77]

I am pretty sure that all the 2.0l protege intake manifolds are the same with the exception of the MP3. The difference being there that there was never VTCS installed, so it would not have to be removed. The VICS is still there though and the potential to loose the screws is the same. My screws were found by removing the exhaust manifold. They were sitting on top of the pre cat. Two screws fell out of the butterflies and were sucked into the combustion chamber. They bounced around in there for a while, causing a wicked rattle and major hesitation (probably by getting stuck in one of the valves). Finally they were blown out the exhaust side after crushing the gap on a plug. Damage to look for would be to the cylinder walls, piston, valves. The pulg can be replaced and if there is no damage to the cylinder, it will be the same as ever. Until it happens next time. That, and now you have at least one butterfly valve with a missing screw...

All of this is assuming that this is the same problem that I had. I imagine it is since they want to do the same repair work...

Are you going to Cush Mazda? That is where mine was done. Whatever you do, I would avoid Wescott Mazda. Those guys were terrible and knew absolutely nothing. I would come in with pages out of the factory service manual and ask for a part, and they would have absolutely no idea what I was talking about, even with the picture and a description in front of them...

[crashed]

I went to John Hine Mazda. The adviser told me the tech had made the diagnosis and he had to button it back up before I could leave. Checked under the hood when I got home and all the dust is still on the entire engine and bay. The only thing that the tech did was topped off my radiator. Charged me $85 and wanted $1245 more for repair. I was 996 miles past warranty. Called this morning and left a msg to cancel my apt for tomorrow.

The advisor acted like he didn't know what was wrong with my car when I brought it in and later he acted like he knew all about the problem and told me my problem was common expecially with the Focus. What a scam. This should be a recall. The turbo Eclipse's crank walk problem is well known and cost about $2k to repair. Just another way they make their profit.

My car is running fine right now and will trying to get all the necessary gaskets for the repair this weekend. If I can't find the screws I'll tack weld the butterflies. Thanks again.

[crashed]

I bought my P5 at Cush in Sept of 2003. Salesman still sends me BD cards and Xmas cards. The tech who repaired my mirror was nice. Didn't have an apointment but he came out and spent the time to check it out and fixed it right in the parking lot. I've moved back to SD since so Cush was a little far for the rough drive right after the problem.

[RaiderMP5]

Man, I do not know about others out there who have not had this problem, but I am a little worried. I got 30K now, and am thinking I oughta pull off the intake mani to put locktite on the screws just in case. I have a 72K mile warranty though. My local dealer sucks ass, and the one I bought it from is 45 minutes away.

What to do...what to do...

[crashed]

Raider fan, win or lose. Did I mention I was raised in Oakland. Almost made me cried when they move to smella.

If I knew this loose screw problem is so common I would have taken my manifold off and loctite all the screws long ago. Looks like it would take about 3 hours of work if you tag all the lines but much less time if you've done it before.

I was lucky I wasn't traveling 70 in dense traffic. That would have been exciting.

[garretts77]

I was lucky I wasn't traveling 70 in dense traffic. That would have been exciting.

That's where I was... I had just merged on the freeway in Chula Vista and was working my way to the fast lane. All of a sudden there was severe hesitation and the CEL was flashing. I just drove it straight to Cush.

The week before I had really bad rattling problems and hesitation. When I drove it to Cush, they said that they couldn't recreate it and sent me on my way. A week later a second screw came loose and crushed the plug gap. That one didn't need to be recreated. I think I was the first one on here that it happened to. At least the first that posted about it...