Draxas thinking of super charger

[ZOOM1ZOOM1]

I talked to Nick the other day at draxas. We started shooting the shit about the header i orderd thain the new turbocharger entered the conversation. He enlightened me of his thaught of devoloping a supercharger for our 2.3. but he would need evidence of a big desire from us Mazda 3 owners. Now i my self would much rather have a super thain a turbo. NO oil taping, less tubing ,less fittings and other stuff to go rong. now if anyone is intrested in this like i am thain maby we should get together and speek to him and let him know how good he would do with his product.

[tsunami]

possibly... though price and when avialable... i to would rather go super charge then turbo... want some gain not tons, and like the idea of less stuff to hook up and go wrong as well, plus some tunability..... though i wouldn't be ready to upgrade for a couple years b/c i am waiting for some more of the warrenty to run off before i do any serious modding such as a sc.... though i would rather go that route then turbo when the time comes....

[rbmazda3]

No turbo lag is a huge bonus in my book!

[Mazda3ofKent]

yeah I am intreated

[Pretzellogic]

How dare you denounce turbo lag.

I shall smite thee!

:D

[mobomelter]

i never liked to whole premise of superchargers. you need power to make power. the 3 doesn't have that much power to begin with therefore i'll use spent exhaust gases, that serve no purpose anyways, to spool a turbo instead. thats just my personal opinion.

[Pretzellogic]

i never liked to whole premise of superchargers. you need power to make power. the 3 doesn't have that much power to begin with therefore i'll use spent exhaust gases, that serve no purpose anyways, to spool a turbo instead.
Remember: A turbo is also parasitic.

[mobomelter]

Remember: A turbo is also parasitic.
um ok lol. i personally beileve superchargers have no place on anything smaller than 6 cylinders.

[ultimazda3]

well it depends on the cost, because 4k for sc or 4k for turbo i think i would have to go turbo... tell him to get a damn tuning solution for us though, i would seriously buy one off of him in a heartbeat.....

[Super Matty P]

um ok lol. i personally beileve superchargers have no place on anything smaller than 6 cylinders.

wanna race me in my 4cyl supercharged protege? Sure it's no 3S but I'd still be willing to bet I could shock ya. (poke)


I've looked into the 2.3L suercharger. I think this is not a great idea. You;ll be forced to use a 4th gen eaton M62 blower mounted to a custom aluminum intake. Intercooling will not be possible without SERIOUS work and trust me an eaton spinning fast enough to make power will need an intercooler. Here's what you'll end up with.

200whp on about 12psi or you could buy a HiBoost turbo and make 270whp on 9psi. either way...you decide whats better.

[mobomelter]

i'm not saying it doesn't work on 4-cylinders i'm just saying i would never put a supercharger on a 4 cylinder. its personal preference.

[Super Matty P]

why wouldn't you? think it doesn't make enough power? think it isn't as reliable? think it require more maintaince? Have you seen my kit? It puts a lot of myths to rest even without tuning or a shitload of boost.

[Antoine]

Keep it cool matty...interesting thread...just don't get out of hand guys...Thanks

[Super Matty P]

here you go again thining I'm getting pissy...just like in the dsm thread. :rolleyes:

I just want to know what his hang up is with a supercharged 4 cyl. No biggee, i've said myself numerous times it's not for everyone. I'm just curious is all.

[Lord_Nycon]

What about an electric/normal turbo hybrid? Electric motor spols(sp) up the turbo untill the exhaust gases take over. All the benifits of a turbo and little to no lag. Oh and a supercharger deffinatly does not belong on anything less then a 6. But thats just my opinion.

[Super Matty P]

a properly sized turbo will ALWAYS surpass any sort of gimmicky electric blower.

Lord Nycon, opinions are fine but do you have any ACTUAL evidence to support the fact they aren't worthy? I'd love to hear it.

[goldwing2000]

If it could be done sensibly, I would much rather go with a super. Don't know how feasible it is, though. Somebody is going to have to try it and see if it's worthwhile.

[mobomelter]

as i said matty its just personal preference. i don't have anything against supers i just prefer turbos.

[Super Matty P]

is there a particular reason why? Everything I prefer over something else has some reasoning behind it. That's ok though. This isn't the spanish inquisition.

[mobomelter]

no real particular reason. i've always thought of turbos as easier to work with than supers. i know they can make power just as good as turbos though.

[Super Matty P]

i've actually heard people tell me the only reason they prefered the turbo to a super was because of the BOV noise and the FMIC in the bumper....I was REALLY hoping you weren't one of those guys.

People that have ridden in my car have been dissappointed with it's lack of gear whine..no tell-tale boost giveaway. I guess sometimes it's ok to lay down your hand!

[mobomelter]

i've actually heard people tell me the only reason they prefered the turbo to a super was because of the BOV noise and the FMIC in the bumper....I was REALLY hoping you weren't one of those guys.

People that have ridden in my car have been dissappointed with it's lack of gear whine..no tell-tale boost giveaway. I guess sometimes it's ok to lay down your hand!
who said i was one of those guys? i simply said i like turbos over supers. no particular reason other than i think they are easier to work with.

[Lord_Nycon]

Really its just i heard people talking about the electric motor helps with turbo lag, i am not, however, talking about the piece of crap electric turbos. Never would buy one of those. I'm talking about a hybrid. Maybe i am completly off on this one, but as far as acctual evidence...no i don't have any. You seem to know what your talking about so if you say it doesn't work thats fine by me.

[quote]
properly sized turbo will ALWAYS surpass any sort of gimmicky electric blower.

Lord Nycon, opinions are fine but do you have any ACTUAL evidence to support the fact they aren't worthy? I'd love to hear it.
ut i have heard talk about it.

[tsunami]

i would much rather draxas get on the supertuners case and get us some tunning options... hopefully it will have some nice additions to hp and tq but with mazda you never know.... and if what mattyp says is true about the sc issues with mounting i think the hiboost kit makes more sense, but if they wanna go the sc route i am not one to stand in the way of technology.... by all means go for it, i for one would prefer sc to turbo but if the price is the same and the hp is less.... i may be dumb buy i aint stupid!!!

[ZOOM1ZOOM1]

Geeeez i guess my thread caused some contriversy. Hey all i got to say is that i am willing to sit back a nother year or so and see how all this forced induction industry works out. but for the mean time im going to go N/A and see what kind of #'s i can get out of it.I fugure after the header the car will be starting to feel like i want it to.

[ultimazda3]

the sad part is that we are starting to get a turbo kit and possibly a sc but we still dont have a way to tune are ecu with out a stand alone, we still dont have any cams for our cars or more simple boltons that would help in the horse power department....

[mobomelter]

doesn't the hiboost kit use a tuned haltech computer?

[ultimazda3]

yeah but thats a stand alone cpu, i would like to see something a little less costly like the sct xcalibrator or something less expensive than a stand alone...

[mobomelter]

it comes as part of the package. also it takes a few years for the aftermarket to catch up with new models.

[goldwing2000]

People that have ridden in my car have been dissappointed with it's lack of gear whine..no tell-tale boost giveaway.

What type of blower do you have?

[Super Matty P]

Powerdyne BD-600, the new kits will all ship with a slightly larger BD-11a. More info can be read about them at www.powerdyne.com . The powerdyne blowers offer a LOT of great features for entry-level boost like no internal lubrication and almost limitless re-clocking of the comressor housing.

[saskmazdaman11]

Hey Matty, what about the possibility of the Whipple supercharger like on the PT Crusier, they claim some impressive gains, and it isn't intercooled. I am not an expert, but the stock PT has a 2.4 litre, with similar performance numbers as a stock 3. What do you think?

[Explosiv3]

I am also very interested in a sc for the 3...im thinking it would fit my driving style better than a turbo...the 2.3 has a fairly large stroke motor (correct me if im wrong) - truck motors (ie fronter v6) are supercharged for better low end tq, which is deff what im looking for (more pull). What kind of tq # do u think a m3 would produce? i did notice the tq #s being lager than hp #s with the turbo (288/316 @ 10psi). An approx price would deffinitly be helpful.

[mobomelter]

315 is a huge amount of torque what more do you need?

[Explosiv3]

yes 316 is alot of tq...a sc would just develop it differently..

[ZOOM1ZOOM1]

when i was talking to nick he mentioned that he would include the intercooler and all the mandrill bent tubing that we would need.
Not to get off of the subject, but i asked him about the crossworth intake manifold and he said that it would work fine on the 3 even though it was make for the focus {fuckus} so i think that it will be my next investment.pluss it looks cool as shit.
The bigest consern that i have about the turbo/super is dependibility if the supercharger dosn't make as muck HP thain i will make up for it with N/A parts. does any one know about the comparison in dependibility?

[Super Matty P]

you won't get the same power NA as you will with a supercharger,...even a shitty supercharger will create boost (5+psi) and you'd be REAL hard pressed to get 50-60whp out of NA mods on that engine.

I don't know Nick at Draxxas, I've never heard of the company either but as a fellow booster I would think right now he shouldn't make any claims before getting further into the build. I did the same thing when I started working on the fs-de superchargers...I made a lot of claims about power and what type of blower I'd use....all of that changed the further I got into it. His best bet is to know that there is interest under a certain price point. I would say that price point would be whatever HiBoost is planning to sell their turbo kit for. It's hard to compete with a guy making almost 300hp if your kit costs more and only makes 200whp...

[baronharkonnen]

What about an electric/normal turbo hybrid? Electric motor spols(sp) up the turbo untill the exhaust gases take over. All the benifits of a turbo and little to no lag. Oh and a supercharger deffinatly does not belong on anything less then a 6. But thats just my opinion.

Hmmm, supercharger does quite nicely on the mini-Cooper S I hear. Don't knock it tell you've tried it.

[rbmazda3]

Hmmm, supercharger does quite nicely on the mini-Cooper S I hear. Don't knock it tell you've tried it.

Lots of 4 bangers out there with superchargers. Both Jackson Racing and CompTech develop superchargers for 4 cylinders. Primarily for the boys with VTECs.

[Super Matty P]

eaton blowers that produce good torque are often used on 4cyl to overcome their lack or low-end grunt. Luckily us proto-geeks dont have that problem.

[r1ceburner]

For those of you who were paying attention, the guy talking about the electric supercharger, was not talking about one of those dumb 12volt DC motors. I believe that he was talking about fixing an electric motor to the turbine itself and using the electric motor to spool the turbo mechanically, not pneumatically. The benefit there is a direct application of energy to the turbine, which is LOADS more efficient than using an electric blower to push air into the trubo, waiting for the force of the extra air to accelerate the turbine wheel. A typical DC motor is only going to be about 79% efficient at turning input power (electricity) into output power (torque). Putting a fan on the electric motor will only further degrade the efficiency of the system because of aerodynaic drag and intertial forces required to accelerate the fan.

By directly applying the electric motor's torque to the turbine wheel, you do not convert electric energy into torque and then torque into airflow. All of the output energy of the electric motor is directly applied to accelerating the turbo.

Mazda has already been playing with this technology. (http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/458)
Also see Here (http://www.mazda.com/environment/2004/15.html) and Here (http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/supercharged_20Turbocharger)