Injector upgade!!

[weelyweels]

Does anyone know what size injectors are in the protege lx vs. the gtx or bpt and if they are really interchangeable. everything that i have read has said that they are interchangeable but i have never heard from anyone that has swapped them??

[SlowPro98]

I don't know, (dunno) but that's a mod I've been thinking about myself, so I'm curious to know as well.

[Salmon_Rob]

what mods do you have that requires bigger injectors?

[weelyweels]

mods...custom header, mitsu TE04H turbo pushing ruffly 6 psi (P.O.S. boost gauge), custom down pipe and 2.5 in exhaust(no fart can) , dsm bov and intercooler... and soon to come..... a miata short block with 9:1 comp,and a water sprayed volvo i/c, miata cam and adjustable cam gears, high flow cat, ARP head studs, and i need a computer upgrade too(gtx/bpt ecm)

[Salmon_Rob]

http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/search.php?searchid=76093

[weelyweels]

umm.. whats that site for?? cause when i when to the site it wanted me to log in??

[Salmon_Rob]

its clubprotege.com

[kcbhiw]

Stock LX injectors are 230cc. The GTX injectors are a direct replacement. The GTR injectors will work, but need a ballast resistor inline.

Also, have a look at the Mercury Capri XR2 injectors (300cc) and Turbo Probe/MX6/626 injectors (305cc).

What are you using for fuel managment? Using larger injectors with the stock ECU could cause you to run pig rich.

[weelyweels]

so you are saying that the lx has the same injectors as the gtx right?? about the fuel managment right now i just have a adjustable fuel pressure regulator but i am looking into the A-pexi s afc II but i heard that haltech has something better for the protege but i cant find much about it!

im still pretty new at this tunning deal but from what i understand is that if the injectors aren't to big the computer can see that it is getting to much fuel and give it less.... but then i have heard that you must have a mass air mached to the injectors?? but i can't find any mass airs for the protege that are larger, calibrated for bigger injectors, or blow-thru style
thanks
keith

[Salmon_Rob]

http://www.msefi.com/

[kcbhiw]

so you are saying that the lx has the same injectors as the gtx right?? about the fuel managment right now i just have a adjustable fuel pressure regulator but i am looking into the A-pexi s afc II but i heard that haltech has something better for the protege but i cant find much about it!

im still pretty new at this tunning deal but from what i understand is that if the injectors aren't to big the computer can see that it is getting to much fuel and give it less.... but then i have heard that you must have a mass air mached to the injectors?? but i can't find any mass airs for the protege that are larger, calibrated for bigger injectors, or blow-thru style
thanks
keith

The GTX injectors are larger than the OE BP injectors. However, I can't recall a flow rate off the top of my head (310+?).

Short of going stand alone as suggested above, you can tune out your car with the stock ECU, but it's quite difficult. Overly large injectors will flow more fuel than the ECU can compensate for. Some guys have successfully gotten the 2nd Gen RX7 VAM to work, but it's a pain (I tried). For the time being, stick to the stock VAM and try adjusting it (pop off the black cover). Be sure to mark the original setting though.

[Salmon_Rob]

i have the rx7 vaf, works well with my safc II and afpr

[weelyweels]

what kina benifits did you get from the rx7 mav.. how much bigger is it or why is it better??

[Salmon_Rob]

better flow in the higher rpm range, its a 7 wire sensor, more accurate, easier for the safc II

[weelyweels]

are you still using the stock wiring harness? also could it be calibrated to be a blow-thru mav??
thank
keith

[Salmon_Rob]

yes and no. you want blow through, go megasquirt

[kcbhiw]

better flow in the higher rpm range, its a 7 wire sensor, more accurate, easier for the safc II

The RX7 VAM is electrically identical to that to the Protege.



yes and no. you want blow through, go megasquirt

Megasquirt detects flow via a MAP sensor (unless they've changed things since the last time I looked).

[Salmon_Rob]

map sensor is technically blow through, and while the plug is identical, it uses a more accurate sensor, i belive in the safc II manual they list it as a 7 wire, as opposed to the familias 3

[weelyweels]

ok i went to there wed site and couldn't find anything.... what do they offer for the 1st gen protege.

[Salmon_Rob]

Developed by Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo, MegaSquirt (http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html) is a Do-It-Yourself programmable electronic fuel injection controller

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

[Salmon_Rob]

you set it up for your car yourself

http://www.megasquirt.info/

[weelyweels]

so is it a stand alone or a piggy back? or somithing else??

[Salmon_Rob]

the closest thing is a piggy back

[kcbhiw]

The MegaSquirt can be set up as either a basic piggy back or a full stand alone(spark and fuel).

As a side note, I'm assisting a friend with an MS install on his 510. I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs.

[Salmon_Rob]

im interested in ms, how hard is the install?

[kcbhiw]

im interested in ms, how hard is the install?

From what we've accomplished so far, the hardest part is the installation of the Escort "manetic pickup" on the crank. Installation of the toothed wheel is a pain in itself. Then, aligning the actual pick-up is a lot of fun too :/.

Everything else is basically wire routing and connections.

We hope to have the car running mid-May.

[Salmon_Rob]

hmm...ill prolly just stick with afpr and safc II for now. not that it matters, as the car doesnt run lol

[weelyweels]

The MegaSquirt can be set up as either a basic piggy back or a full stand alone(spark and fuel).

As a side note, I'm assisting a friend with an MS install on his 510. I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs.


on his "510"?? i really dont know what you are talking about.. and does that megasquirt work with the stock mav?? i really would not like to have a seed density car they are just not as acurate(speeling) but anyways im not saying that it doesn't work im just stubborn about somethings....

[kcbhiw]

on his "510"?? i really dont know what you are talking about.. and does that megasquirt work with the stock mav?? i really would not like to have a seed density car they are just not as acurate(speeling) but anyways im not saying that it doesn't work im just stubborn about somethings....

The MS will work on just about any car. It's a standalone that isn't designed for any specific car. It will replace your stock ECU and engine wiring harness and will elimnate the stock MAF by implementing a MAP sensor.

[weelyweels]

yeah i under stand what you saying about standalone thru what i have read/heard and delt with i belive that a maf is better than a map that is it is more accurat..

[Salmon_Rob]

what gives you that impression? and if so why dont more manufacturers still use mafs?

[kcbhiw]

MAFs were essentially a replacement for VAMs which are highly restrictive, mechanical, large, and hard to tune, even for production. The MAF, or hot-wire, is much smaller, lighter, and easier to produce. MAP sensors are the way to go (as silver03p5 suggested), however. They're small, non obtrusive, allow shorter TB to Filter piping, and so on. Basically, it's a pressure transducer. Air pressure (with respect to atmosphere) + temperature + appropriate ECU maps = a running engine (basically).

[D323]

GTX's are 330cc's last time I heard.

good OEM replacement for low boost applications.


MAP sensors are also much more accurate b/c they are on the intake manifold before the air goes into the motor vs. a VAF/MAF which is read at the end of long pipes where changes in the air density and what not can occur.

[ROB-80E]

BF GTX injectors are up to 330cc. BG GTX injectors are up to 420cc. BG GTR injectors are up to 605cc.

All the above injectors are interchangeable, but as was said, the GTR injectors are low impedence.

I've just fitted RX7 13B N/A injectors (460cc) and they are doing great. Easily supporting 220Hp at the wheels. Mind you, I did have to drill the nozzel ports, but it was very easy. can provide more details if needed.

[Gen1GT]

If you get an RX7 AFM, make sure you tune it on the dyno.

[weelyweels]

how big is your rx7 vaf?? cause i have just picked up a probe gt vaf and i was wondering which is bigger... also do you think that i would be able to install the probe injectors w/ the vaf with out needing to tune... i am relating this to mustangs where you can swap injectors aslong as you use the correct maf.. i know that it is a diff set up but would it still apply??

[Gen1GT]

Not sure. Would you like me to measure it for you? It's significantly bigger than the stock AFM.