Turbo Kit for Mazda 3 Ready!

[HiBoost TS]

Just to give you an update, the kit has been finished and the car is being tuned at the dyno. We should finish all details of the fuel maps by the weekend and we are ready to go. All parts are in production and the parts should be available by May 1st.

The car did 202 WHP at 5 psi of boost without tuning and at 4700 RPMs. The Air fuel ratio was too high (16 to1) so I let off the throttle to continue tomorrow.

All parts fitted correctly and there is enough room for all components.

I will post some pictures and dyno sheets by tomorrow.

We are already taking orders. If interested, you can e mail me at juan@hiboost.com or call 866 77TURBO between 8 am to 6pm PST.


Juan

[protegeV]

202 @5psi with NO tuning...I can smell the potential(shocked)

[protegeV]

...and just to be absolutely sure, this is for the 2.3, corrrect?

[HiBoost TS]

...and just to be absolutely sure, this is for the 2.3, corrrect?

Yes our car is 2.3 with standard 5 speed tranny.

[HiBoost TS]

Here are a few pictures...

[vindication]

damn, crazy numbers. cant wait to see how it does when it's tuned. also, damn that's one tight fit

[tsunami]

new house....turbo mz3.... new house... turbo mz3... for some reason this is a really really hard decision.....

[protegeV]

uh, it shouldnt be...(scratch)...if it was a woman on the line however, that would be an easier decision ;)(lol2)

[LinuxRacr]

uh, it shouldnt be...(scratch)...if it was a woman on the line however, that would be an easier decision ;)(lol2)

(mswerd) She'd kick you in the nuts if you got the turbo over the house. Get the house, and get boosted later.

[Antoine]

Hawtness...looking forward to the final #'s...a vid of the dyno would be sweet :D

[mobomelter]

in you had the perfect woman she'd tell you to get the turbo.

[pb4ugoout]

^^^^will never happen. cuz if she ever would tell you to get a turbo then she would first say "i want a turbo on my car" and you'd probably buy a house over doing that so there ya go. i would buy a house and fix it up a little and then use your equity to buy a turbo

[tsunami]

^^^^will never happen. cuz if she ever would tell you to get a turbo then she would first say "i want a turbo on my car" and you'd probably buy a house over doing that so there ya go. i would buy a house and fix it up a little and then use your equity to buy a turbo


SO TRUE!!! women want it all.... (so don't i... but she doesn't know that)

[curacer1]

202whp..... i was hoping for a bit more, thought it would have 240 or something, how much will the tuning add. and here is the dreaded question..... how many body parts and future children will i have to sell to pay for this boy

[LinuxRacr]

202whp..... i was hoping for a bit more, thought it would have 240 or something, how much will the tuning add. and here is the dreaded question..... how many body parts and future children will i have to sell to pay for this boy

That's just at 5 PSI. Do you know how good that is? I know he will be getting a lot more out of it easily.

[funnylittlman]

^---- What Linux said... plus it's 5 PSI Untuned :D

[curacer1]

i had thought juan said 240 at 7psi, why did he run with 5, and how much to you think the tuning will increase the whp?
done get me wrong, 200whp still gives me a throbbing hard on, i can't wait to buy it, i was just under the impression of 240. i have a few friends that need to be dusted by a stationwagon

[Badger Biker]

curacer: To understand all this you really have to have a better understanding of turbos and now they work.

He ran at 5psi because the kit was just in and it was UNTUNED. An untuned turbo engine running @ too high of a boost level = BLOWN ENGINES. Detonation is a BAD thing and by keeping boost levels low you can test this stuff out, get basic fuel maps done and then you can begin to run higher boost levels and retune accordingly.

Just be a little patient and I'm sure Juan will be upping it to 7psi and much higher and you'll see well over 240whp, as long as the stock internals hold up. I'm sure he just doesn't want to blow up the engine right away, give him a few weeks. ;)

Juan: Are you doing all your testing on an automatic tranny as well?

[cable43]

(mswerd) She'd kick you in the nuts if you got the turbo over the house. Get the house, and get boosted later.

.... I believed in you... you were my hero! How could you say that!?

This is like seeing Batman in an alley suckin d*** to by crack!

J/K
I'm saving for the house now my self an slowing down on mods. Wife would slaughter me if I didn't. Any woman worth having would.

[HiBoost TS]

I have a 5 speed, but the automatic has been tested in the Mazda6. I think the trannies are the same. And yes, you are correct. I just had the acr on the dyno a little late in the afternoon and wanted to see how it was. Checking everything, like oil leaks, air leaks, hoses to be tight and decided to make a run. It was too lean after 4500 RPMs so I let off. I always start with lower boost levles and then increase pound by pound. This allows me to tune it better for a nice stright curve thru the powerband.


I will keep you posted with new tests and dyno results.

Juan

[funnylittlman]

^---- Woo hooo for Juan. You are truely a turbo guru :D

[Gbourdon]

Makes me want a boosted 3

[Rism]

I wonder how much boost the engine can take before going boom

[TheJohnny]

cool..... nice work

[tgv121281]

cable43, I feel for ya. I'm in the SAME position...I found the perfect house, and put a contract on it....couple days later this comes out....WHY?!!!

But I gotta go with the casa, HOWEVER I WILL have this kit no later than 9/1/05...I dont care if I have to sell a kidney to do it!

[Lord_Nycon]

I'd love one of these kits, but anybody know how much the manual tranny can take before it goes boom. Especially if we're talking about 200+ whp.

[IllBinfrontofya]

That's what we're leavin to juan! He's going to be the one to help shed some light on the situation, seein as he's the only guy with a boosted 3 right now. Give it a month of so, and I think Juan should be able to give a good idea of how strong the engine is.

[m_long84]

(bow) Juan, you are a god man. This is awesome and well worth the wait. Thanks for being the first to boost the 3 and putting so much time, effort, and money into the development. I'm sure that you won't be sorry. I'm gonna start saving now and will be joining the darkside no later than a year from now. (nana)

[curacer1]

who do i make the check out to?

[rjison]

Juan,

Your web site is all jacked up! Are you updating it or something today?

[dvtib]

glad to see that you guys have the turbo running now I'm half way done with mine and deff want to see what you guys get at 7psi... and just wondering how high can you go with stock internals? all I have done is my valve springs and retainers.

[mobomelter]

well unfortunatley i beileve the only real way to find out what stock internals can take is trial and error. but thats alot of money to be spent to find out what doesn't work.

[HiBoost TS]

I will take the car to its limits just like we did with the P5. That is why we purchased our car instead of doing the test in someone else's car. I will post videos of dyno runs and the car at the track

[IllBinfrontofya]

How much are we looking at for a kit? And, how hard would it be for 3 guys to install it.( Guys have been installing stereo, intakes, exhausts, headers, for years. But never done a turbo setup) And, would it be a pretty much plug and play? Meaning, i know everyone will need to be properly TUNED on a dyno, but if we were to install it ourselves, and have to drive the car over to a dyno. Would it be pretty hard to drive?

On a side note, I just got offered a job at Dell Computers making 13/hr around 1500/month. So, I'll be savin up FAST FOR THIS KIT!!! I'm extremely excited!!! Also wondering how much boost this engine will take. Is there anyway that you can run like say . . a compression check now, and then one every now and again whenever you up the boost. The only reason I ask is becuz there should be some way that we can determine the longevity of the stock internals off data from your tuning and so forth.

[Da 6]

congrads man! there are a SLEW of antsy 6 owners awaiting the results for a 6 application. Keep up the good woork :)

[HiBoost TS]

How much are we looking at for a kit? And, how hard would it be for 3 guys to install it.( Guys have been installing stereo, intakes, exhausts, headers, for years. But never done a turbo setup) And, would it be a pretty much plug and play? Meaning, i know everyone will need to be properly TUNED on a dyno, but if we were to install it ourselves, and have to drive the car over to a dyno. Would it be pretty hard to drive?

On a side note, I just got offered a job at Dell Computers making 13/hr around 1500/month. So, I'll be savin up FAST FOR THIS KIT!!! I'm extremely excited!!! Also wondering how much boost this engine will take. Is there anyway that you can run like say . . a compression check now, and then one every now and again whenever you up the boost. The only reason I ask is becuz there should be some way that we can determine the longevity of the stock internals off data from your tuning and so forth.

The kit is a plug and play kit. There is no tuning neded as the Haltech will come pre maped. The installation is pretty simple and there will be a CD with instructions and maybe a video of the most critical parts of the installation. It will come with every nut and bolt required and there is no cutting or welding involved.

[goldwing2000]

I just have one thing to say:

Juan... you rock, dude. (rockon)

[Da 6]

I just have one thing to say:

Juan... you rock, dude. (rockon) I know! No tuning needed for a stock 2.3 MZR right? My goal was 200hp, Be it WHP or BHP.

[Badger Biker]

Juan:

Is the haltech tunable by using a laptop for personal tuning? I know those with intakes, exhausts, and the like will probably need different tuning based on what they have.

I am also curious as to how the haltech works with the ECU and just what kind of things we could use it for. I would love to be able to tune my engine with everything , even before I put down the money for a turbo kit (hopefully!)

[SilentSno]

It makes me want my own Mazda3s now instead of the wife. 200 whp untuned at 5 psi, wow!

[Da 6]

It makes me want my own Mazda3s now instead of the wife. 200 whp untuned at 5 psi, wow! Hope she isn't looking over your sholder right now ;) If I had kids they would be an even trade! Turbo maitnence<kid maitnence

[SilentSno]

Hope she isn't looking over your sholder right now ;) If I had kids they would be an even trade! Turbo maitnence<kid maitnence

HAHA. I meant i wish i had the mazda3 instead of her having it. :P

[Da 6]

OHH *walks to corner and puts on "the hat"*

[mazda3zoom]

OHH *walks to corner and puts on "the hat"*

HAHA. ive read through this whole thread and i still dont see anywhere what the cost is going to be. I really want one and if its around $3500 ill get one really soon but we need to know. (drinks)

[MrTea]

I think his original #'s were in the high 3k range 3700-3900, but that was some time ago and i believe he's using the new Haltech unit so price may differ.

And as far as tuning goes, you don't have to worry about different tuning with an intake as it won't be on the turbo setup. As far as exhaust, we'll see what happens, cause i believe the P5 kit gained another 20hp with freeflowing (illegal) exhaust...so the potential might be there.

[Biznass]

I think the price was 4200 and like 100 for shipping. Not for sure on that but I think I saw that somewhere.

Biznass

[Da 6]

Mr Tea totaly I forgot about that. I lost HP N/A from the axle back but being turbo would warrent exhaust mods...Now we have to see what happens if we try and combine the turbo and speed or draxas catback. Will this turbo setup swap out or completely kill the dual cat?

[Dmack_901]

Does it add a significant ammount of weight. I know that cast-manifold has got to weight a bit, but I'm not sure wha thte stock one weighs. If it's not all that much then it looks like a 220 3T would be pretty well matched with an stock STi if you threw out the AWD.

[HiBoost TS]

Well, I just finished maping the Haltech in the car this afternoon. An amazing number of 290 WHP at 10 psi of boost and 316 Lbs of torque. The car is very fast and feels real good. I will finish the wiring with the boost controller and then just wait for the parts that are in back order to get the kits available.

The kit will come with the Haltech E6X that controls both fuel and timing but will control only fuel in the basic kit. It will be easily upgradable to control timing, because we will need new coils and spark plug wires to replace the stock coils but this will be needed for the guys who build the engine with forged rods to get the full potential of the Duratec.
I will post the video of the dyno run later.

Oh, and this is with stock exhaust!

[curacer1]

you got it to 290 on stock internals.........juan, you are my hero.... (bow) give me the price, the check will be in the mail

[tsunami]

oh sweet mother of god... 290whp is insane (attn) ... the 316ftlbs is amazing :'( (yup thats right i am cryin these numbers are so sweet!!)... these engines have some potential for sure.... do you have stock internals or are you using forged pistons and rods? also you are removing one of the cats to do the down piping correct? so this isn't street legal if you have to pass an emisions test? and some info on pricing would nice as well... i need to go shake the shiat out of my piggy bank!!!!! (stooges)

[HiBoost TS]

Here are the videos. One with the wheel spinning at the dyno and the other with view of the dyno results.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/HiBoost%20TS/Mazda%203%20dyno%20run%20287.wmv


http://www.msprotege.com/members/HiBoost%20TS/Mazda3%20spinning%20wheel.wmv

Juan

[Captain KRM P5]

Juan:

Is the haltech tunable by using a laptop for personal tuning? I know those with intakes, exhausts, and the like will probably need different tuning based on what they have.

I am also curious as to how the haltech works with the ECU and just what kind of things we could use it for. I would love to be able to tune my engine with everything , even before I put down the money for a turbo kit (hopefully!)

Jon,

If you need help tuning a haltech, you know I only live a few hours away :D

[goldwing2000]

oh sweet mother of god... 290whp is insane (attn) ...

I second that. (wow) (humpleg) (bowdown)

Now I won't have to trade my car in for a MS3 (if it ever shows up). They're "only" making 274hp.

[Da 6]

(boom05) how long have you guys been running that stock engine in the 10 psi range?

[tsunami]

I second that. (wow) (humpleg) (bowdown)

Now I won't have to trade my car in for a MS3 (if it ever shows up). They're "only" making 274hp.

also thats at the crank, and the rumors i heard were that the awd wasn't going to be carried over into the ms3 and possible de-tunning b/c of no awd... the only good thing about it would be the direct port... now that has some potential with some turbo upgrades that should (blowjob) away an m3 with a hiboost.... but the only problem is no one knows when/if a ms3 is going to come out....

[Lord_Nycon]

sweet mother of god i'm in love. lol Where do i sign up? (burnout)

[mobomelter]

any way the kit will be sold using less boost?

[Mikey444]

I wish I had a 4cyl. Mazda 6 right now and not a V6 (sad2)

[IllBinfrontofya]

OH MY GOD!!! 280+ WHP and 316 LBs Tq!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! Now that I have completely pissed myself, I MUST ASK . . . is this the PSI you'll be sellin the kits at? Or, was that just a test to see what the engine can do? Did you happen to take it any higher then 10 psi? How was the shift feel (did it rock back and forth at all for the extra HP and more important extra TQ? I would think our engbine mounts would break in a matter of weeks :)

[super laubo]

this is wonderful.. awesome job so far!!!

as far as the setup goes, could you give us more details about the kit. what's included, ease of installation, fabrication, and most of all..can i reinstall everything to factory when smog comes around?

thanks!!!

[nvoetfiv]

Nice work Juan, you're exceeding a lot of expectations it seems :)

If I had the 2.3l engine I'd be the first on the list to buy one(ok ok, so maybe I'd be #325 since I'm always doing something else somewhere else when things like these is released), but I'm stuck in europe with the 1.6 and just home from doing something else, somewhere else. ;)

I have read on several occasions that the 1.6l Mazda3 is(by far?) the most sold version of the car worldwide(because even if you have 50.000$ you couldn't get the 2.3 outside USA....fees, fees, fees).
Of course the drivers of the 1.6 litres are the one who's worst off when it comes to engine power. And this is what leads to what could, if you look at it from a distance and squint, lead to a conclusion of mine: Wouldn't a turbo for the 1.6 achieve a very big consumer number?



Heheh, well this was mostly rambling mixed with a certain dose of faint hope. IF you're not going outside the states in the sales of your turbo, could you instead assist me with a few questions?
If I wanted to install a custom turbo for my 1.6 m3, set up for everyday driving, what numbers do you think I would achieve? I'm asking you assuming you have some experience in boosting 1.6l engines.

All help is appreciated! (And godspeed to all you 2.3 litres)

[Da 6]

nvoetfiv juan is everywhere to include outside of the states. I beleve you do have a need for boost. I know there is a 2.0 turbed but thats in japan but 2.0 and 2.3 have an ungawdly # of similatrities header(s) and stuff bolt up. You will have to ask him if he has a 1.6 in the works or already done.

*counting down days of when the warrenty period is over* 200WHP is good enough for me :)

[mobomelter]

*counting down days of when the warrenty period is over* 200WHP is good enough for me :)
i feel your pain. personally i wouldn't want to push more than about 6 psi. 200 hp is plenty for this car.

[SilentSno]

Juan does it again...

[Rennoc]

In the beginning you said that the car was getting 202 whp, at 5 psi, with no tuning. What would the car be getting now at 5 psi with tuning so that those who have stock internals and what not can keep it running low but still have the joys of a FI engine?

[MrTea]

Nice work Juan, you're exceeding a lot of expectations it seems :)

If I had the 2.3l engine I'd be the first on the list to buy one(ok ok, so maybe I'd be #325 since I'm always doing something else somewhere else when things like these is released), but I'm stuck in europe with the 1.6 and just home from doing something else, somewhere else. ;)

I have read on several occasions that the 1.6l Mazda3 is(by far?) the most sold version of the car worldwide(because even if you have 50.000$ you couldn't get the 2.3 outside USA....fees, fees, fees).
Of course the drivers of the 1.6 litres are the one who's worst off when it comes to engine power. And this is what leads to what could, if you look at it from a distance and squint, lead to a conclusion of mine: Wouldn't a turbo for the 1.6 achieve a very big consumer number?



Heheh, well this was mostly rambling mixed with a certain dose of faint hope. IF you're not going outside the states in the sales of your turbo, could you instead assist me with a few questions?
If I wanted to install a custom turbo for my 1.6 m3, set up for everyday driving, what numbers do you think I would achieve? I'm asking you assuming you have some experience in boosting 1.6l engines.

All help is appreciated! (And godspeed to all you 2.3 litres)

might be a different engine, but....

http://www.hiboost.com/kit16.html

Can't wait so see this on the car Juan, I gotta say seeing all that TQ suprised the heck out of me!

[Andrewbox]

So is this kit compatible with the 2.0l the 3's have?

[HiBoost TS]

So is this kit compatible with the 2.0l the 3's have?

Yes, it is. Once we finish this kit completly then we will fit it into the 2.0. There are just minor differences and the maping is different as well. But it will be available.

[perfecto]

... I know it's hard to say at this point but because the Mazda 5 uses virtually the same engine that this will be available for it in the future? :)

[nvoetfiv]

might be a different engine, but....

http://www.hiboost.com/kit16.html

Can't wait so see this on the car Juan, I gotta say seeing all that TQ suprised the heck out of me!

Hmm, that certainly looks interesting..! Not sure if it fits the 2004/2005 1.6mzr engine, but it does say 2002 and beyond, maybe I'm not out of luck luck after all. ;)

Any info about this kit regarding my 2005 1.6 m3 engine would be great! Looking forward to hear from you. :)

[vindication]

it'll be cool to compare the new 2.0l mzr engine compared to the 2.0 fs-de with same turbo at same psi.

[Da 6]

i feel your pain. personally i wouldn't want to push more than about 6 psi. 200 hp is plenty for this car.I already threw pistons thru the block....Engine #2 has to last me for a lil bit.

[mobomelter]

I already threw pistons thru the block....Engine #2 has to last me for a lil bit.
how did you manage that?

[Lord_Nycon]

What on earth were you doing to throw the pistons threw the block? (scratch)

[Da 6]

one of those 1st year production things...

juan did you guys disable vvt and vilm?

[HiBoost TS]

one of those 1st year production things...

juan did you guys disable vvt and vilm?

Everything is working, VVT and everything.

[IllBinfrontofya]

Da 6, waqit a second. What do you mean first year production things? Are you saying that we have really weak rods & pistons? What boost were u runnin to do that, and how hard were you driving your car before that happened? Just wondering, since I need to know later down the line.

[curacer1]

what is the cost

[Libertysyclone]

I would like to know a little more about the specs on the kit, IE; what turbo(flow map if you could), intercooler if there is one, what haltech you are using. will it be a straight plug-n-play or will there need to be some harness work. Is this a water cooled turbo or just oil. What do you use for an oil return? And the same ? as everyone else $? My wife and I have a 05 red 2.3 that we are going to boost as soon as the warranty is up, I am stoked to find this I have been looking into getting a JDM engine from the mazdaspeed 6 and using most of the parts - the head because of direct port injectors (they cost +$$$) so any info would be great.

[ChiMSP]

Is it me, or do I hear turkey from that vid? Those are nawsome numbers by the way!

[Da 6]

Da 6, waqit a second. What do you mean first year production things? Are you saying that we have really weak rods & pistons? What boost were u runnin to do that, and how hard were you driving your car before that happened? Just wondering, since I need to know later down the line.Rare 6i issues with engines built way before the Mz3 ;) nothing was done out of ordinary...never hit vvt even. drove up a hill...and then coasted down it. 2.3 in stock form isn't that strong for alot of spraying/boost. marcy and cosworth are working on parts for us. Tranny is another thing being worked on by a few people cause 3rd gear seems to be what people are having problems with. Thats why we are like on the edge of our seats here when we read the HP and TQ #s. Don't prove me right, by all means prove me wrong! :)

[mobomelter]

hey is there any explanation for why the car makes a duck type sound when they let off the gas in the dyno vids?

[Andrewbox]

Yes, it is. Once we finish this kit completly then we will fit it into the 2.0. There are just minor differences and the maping is different as well. But it will be available.
Very nice. What is the engine code for the 2.0l in the 3?

[DJ_Seija_Tenshi]

whoa! i take it, this is THEE FIRST turbo for the M3. i believe i read that this turbo kit will work with an automatic. kewl!

side question, could I transfer the 5sp manu-matic trans from the 6 to the 3? is that even possible. course with some crazy modification, i would think such idea could work. anyone have any thoughts on this? would that change anything for the better; even with this kewl turbo???

in addition: with this turbo, it would be greatly smart, in my opinion, to upgrade the brakes, suspension and tires for this mad power it will produce.

thanks to anyone who replies to me. ;) :) thanks!!

[Rainman]

Shit, I am almost sorry that I ordered a MS6 for myself. I could have gotten a 3, boosted it with this kit, ended up with a faster car, and more money in my pocket! LOL! I guess I'll have to pull out all the stops when I get the 6 in my hands! Gotta be faster than Juan's boosted 3...LOL!

R

[Da 6]

hey is there any explanation for why the car makes a duck type sound when they let off the gas in the dyno vids?THAT SOUND IS OF A BLOW OFF VALVE...*whoops caps off* turbo forces air into the engine(Forced induction) when you let off the gas the throttle closes and the air being forced in is then forced back at the turbo...if the force is great enought you can break the inter parts of the turbo. so a blow off valve is there to let that air out so it doesn't damage the verry expencive turbo. If you thought that was a funny sound, find a stock MSP! blades of the this turbo are ceramic right?

[Da 6]

side question, could I transfer the 5sp manu-matic trans from the 6 to the 3? is that even possible.Nope...not unless you can get that V6 it was on to fit under the hood. Mazda also discontinued that tranny for the 6 speed manumatic due to the many issues it had. we are stuck with the 4 speed for now. There is a 6 spd manual for the new euopean 6 but thats gonna be fun tracking down and shipping back. There is a aftermarket manumatic focus tranny that is supose to bolt up(lsd, hi stall, and more goodies) but I can't find the link.

[m_long84]

My god Juan, those numbers are insane. Never in my life did I ever imagine my Mazda 3 running 290 whp with 316 lbs of tq. You've got a sale as soon as I come up with the money. How will the driveline handle this kinda power and what are the differences between the different kits you will be offering (i.e. price, contents, hp & tq)? Thanks in advance.

[IllBinfrontofya]

actually yea. How well did the tranny hold up to your shifts anbd so forth while out on the road? How about the stock clutch? Just wondering since I'm going to need to do all this at the same time to avoid nay problems downt the road.

[Airman Jack]

Ladies and gentlemen... we're going to need LSD.. no, I don't mean the drug, I mean a Limited Slip Differential... otherwise I can see spending a LOT of money on tires for anyone who likes to accelerate AND turn at the same time. It's far too easy already to break a tire loose when turning in 1st or 2nd when at a high power setting.

[goldwing2000]

No kidding. I pulled a rev-limited smoker on Saturday with only a CAI. It's scary to think what another 140 ponies are going to do. (burnout)

[Kooldino]

Sweet Jesus that's a lot of power. I'm jealous. Just goes to show you what you can do with a modern motor compared to the dinosaurs that are the FS-DEs.

Juan - now it's time to run that badboy. I want to see mid 13s or better on pump gas and street tires!

[eting_pro5]

Ladies and gentlemen... we're going to need LSD.. no, I don't mean the drug, I mean a Limited Slip Differential... otherwise I can see spending a LOT of money on tires for anyone who likes to accelerate AND turn at the same time. It's far too easy already to break a tire loose when turning in 1st or 2nd when at a high power setting.

Yep. Does anybody make one?

[AzMz3]

Ladies and gentlemen... we're going to need LSD.. no, I don't mean the drug, I mean a Limited Slip Differential... otherwise I can see spending a LOT of money on tires for anyone who likes to accelerate AND turn at the same time. It's far too easy already to break a tire loose when turning in 1st or 2nd when at a high power setting.


It is called learning how to drive your car. (wiggle)

Not that I don't think it will help some, but many need to learn to drive, especially if you are doing smokey burn outs with out trying! (cabpatch)

[mobomelter]

THAT SOUND IS OF A BLOW OFF VALVE...*whoops caps off* turbo forces air into the engine(Forced induction) when you let off the gas the throttle closes and the air being forced in is then forced back at the turbo...if the force is great enought you can break the inter parts of the turbo. so a blow off valve is there to let that air out so it doesn't damage the verry expencive turbo. If you thought that was a funny sound, find a stock MSP! blades of the this turbo are ceramic right?
i know about blow off valves. but i have never heard one that sounds like a duck. most make a sound of air releasing.

[SilentSno]

i know about blow off valves. but i have never heard one that sounds like a duck. most make a sound of air releasing.

Except the stock SRT4, sounds like an old man heeving....

[ChiMSP]

You mean Turkey? The MSP guys know about that subject all too well.

[HiBoost TS]

That is the sound of a turbo with no BOV. I don't have the BOV yet. It will be in tomorrow and the videos on the street and the track are coming soon.

[mobomelter]

that would explain the duck noise. you going to post new videos with the bov?

[goldwing2000]

Not that I don't think it will help some, but many need to learn to drive, especially if you are doing smokey burn outs with out trying! (cabpatch)

Well, now... who said I wasn't trying? (spank) :D

[IllBinfrontofya]

by the way, it isn't a 140 whp increase. It is more around the 75 whp increase. What kind of Tq numbers are we looking at juan with the 6 psi boost?

[mobomelter]

its not a matter of burnouts when it comes to the lsd. its a matter of keeping both tires gripping at the same time.

[ChiMSP]

That is the sound of a turbo with no BOV. I don't have the BOV yet. It will be in tomorrow and the videos on the street and the track are coming soon.
Cool

[goldwing2000]

by the way, it isn't a 140 whp increase. It is more around the 75 whp increase. What kind of Tq numbers are we looking at juan with the 6 psi boost?

75?
Did you go to public schools? (boom03)

Stock=145-ish whp
HiBoost=290-ish whp

290-145=???

Have you even read this thread? (uhm)

The torque is 316.

http://home.comcast.net/~goldwing2000/Mazda_3_dyno_run_287_001_0001.jpg

[mobomelter]

owned.

[Da 6]

yes srt-4 in 04 got a lsd. larger wheels also help on that issue. When I went from 16's to 17's I went from opps I did it again to having to throw the car into a turn(shift all items in car) to loose the inside tire on dry land. There is a aftermarket tranny out now but i'm still searching for that thread and or link. There are people making and secretly R&D parts for our current tranny as well.

[mobomelter]

yeah it'd be nice to see an lsd for the 3. but i'll settle for stiffer motor mounts instead.

[Da 6]

Talk to CP-e in beltsville MD for that ;) PM in the works!

[mobomelter]

stiffer mounts? awesome.

[dread]

my brothers motor mounts in his 3 already broke when he slid off the road on the ice. Only other problem was the underplate was damaged. The mechanic said the motor mounts are poorly designed. I'd be worried about putting a turbo in my 3 without better mounts.

[Da 6]

need to make a seperate intrest thread for them ;)

[Mikey444]

I remember when I had the Mazda 3s with manumatic, when ever you would doen shift manually and get it revving you can hear the engine mounts, it really bothered me. Made me feel like the engine was going to brake off the mounts every time. All in all, it was an amzing lil car to drive around, expecially in automatic. It makes a really good city car all stock.

[IllBinfrontofya]

75?
Did you go to public schools? (boom03)

Stock=145-ish whp
HiBoost=290-ish whp

290-145=???

Have you even read this thread? (uhm)

The torque is 316.

http://home.comcast.net/~goldwing2000/Mazda_3_dyno_run_287_001_0001.jpg
Yea but, " If you have even been paying attention to this thread, you would know that the kit that is being sold is at 6 psi with 220-230whp! So how about you ease up there on the branding ok. At least I pay attention enough to know what's going on with this kit!
Ps. its an 80 hp increase!
P.S.
MoboMelter . . . . OWNED!!!!!!!

[mobomelter]

how am i owned? the dyno results are what are being referred to. if you'd like to refer me to the post where hiboost said otherwise be my guest.

[IllBinfrontofya]

*I* was talking about the ACTUAL kit coming out right now for the 3. They WILL be coming out with an upgrade later. You would know this if you paid attentino to what i was saying. . .

[IllBinfrontofya]

Don't get all touchy Mobo just cause you can't take it now. . . EASY EASE UP!

[goldwing2000]

Yea but, " If you have even been paying attention to this thread, you would know that the kit that is being sold is at 6 psi with 220-230whp! So how about you ease up there on the branding ok. At least I pay attention enough to know what's going on with this kit!
Ps. its an 80 hp increase!
*I* was talking about the ACTUAL kit coming out right now for the 3. They WILL be coming out with an upgrade later. You would know this if you paid attentino to what i was saying. . .

Just to humor you, I just re-read this whole thread AND checked Juan's web site. I didn't find anything about this magical mystery kit with future upgrade you are referring to. There is only one kit and it is the one being discussed on this thread.
The only numbers that have been posted are the preliminary 202@5psi without tuning and the final 287@10psi. No mention of 220-230@6psi.

Maybe I'm just blind but the only details I found were here:
Well, I just finished maping the Haltech in the car this afternoon. An amazing number of 290 WHP at 10 psi of boost and 316 Lbs of torque. The car is very fast and feels real good. I will finish the wiring with the boost controller and then just wait for the parts that are in back order to get the kits available.

The kit will come with the Haltech E6X that controls both fuel and timing but will control only fuel in the basic kit. It will be easily upgradable to control timing, because we will need new coils and spark plug wires to replace the stock coils but this will be needed for the guys who build the engine with forged rods to get the full potential of the Duratec.
I will post the video of the dyno run later.

Oh, and this is with stock exhaust!
Would you care to enlighten us, oh all-knowing turbo god, as to what the hell you are talking about? Maybe provide a link or something?

[vindication]

Yea but, " If you have even been paying attention to this thread, you would know that the kit that is being sold is at 6 psi with 220-230whp! So how about you ease up there on the branding ok. At least I pay attention enough to know what's going on with this kit!
Ps. its an 80 hp increase!
P.S.
MoboMelter . . . . OWNED!!!!!!!
the kit is not being sold "at" anything. you can set the damn boost "at" whatever you want. juan just recommends it "at" 6psi for those of you that wont have forged and want to be on the safe side.


once again, nice work juan. maybe you answered this but is this with stock exhaust?

[tsunami]

and let the flame wars begin.....

[IllBinfrontofya]

My bad. That i remember seeing juan say he would be shipping the standard kit at 6 psi for around 220-230 whp and then he will be offering upgrade parts for the harder tuners. Was wondering Juan if that was what you are looking on doing?

[MrTea]

Lets try to keep things on track if at all possible. There are some other threads on other forums that cover other details of the kit, perhaps someone saw something there. as far as exhaust goes, this last dyno at 10psi was on stock exhaust. I believe the P5 kit gained over 20hp when he moved to a fully open (no cat there either) exhaust. there's plenty of room for more down the line once people start realizing the limits of these duratecs...and their trannies.

[goldwing2000]

Good call. Let's all take the attitudes down a notch. We're all here because we're addicted to hp. We just get a little edgy when we haven't had a fix...

With some tranny issues already beginning to surface, that may be a serious concern.

(group)

[Da 6]

once again, nice work juan. maybe you answered this but is this with stock exhaust? Yes. stock exhaust, tranny, 17's wraped in badyears, Motormounts and stock...internals.

[IllBinfrontofya]

Yea, I am VERY interested to see how our tranny holds up to 6-10 psi of boost. I wonder if the added stress at around 3700-4k will end up wearing it down REALLY FAST. The clutch will go in weeks, so that's a given.

[Da 6]

ask all the 6 racers(2.3 and V6) who experimented. Beleve even tripoint had 3rd gear issues when they hit the big #'s granted a 8500rpm redining 2.3 is a lil difrent from ours.

[Vice2kind]

and let the flame wars begin.....
WHERE!!!...WHERE.... ( looking around)

[Vice2kind]

Just to give you an update, the kit has been finished and the car is being tuned at the dyno. We should finish all details of the fuel maps by the weekend and we are ready to go. All parts are in production and the parts should be available by May 1st.

The car did 202 WHP at 5 psi of boost without tuning and at 4700 RPMs. The Air fuel ratio was too high (16 to1) so I let off the throttle to continue tomorrow.

All parts fitted correctly and there is enough room for all components.

I will post some pictures and dyno sheets by tomorrow.

We are already taking orders. If interested, you can e mail me at juan@hiboost.com or call 866 77TURBO between 8 am to 6pm PST.


Juan Juan.. i think we need to know what the price range is.. thanx man

[HiBoost TS]

Juan.. i think we need to know what the price range is.. thanx man

I thought I had posted it.

The price is $4,200.00 and will have free shipping until July 31st 2005

[mobomelter]

thats alot of dough. but well worth it.

[Dmack_901]

OK, How much is this kit? I know it's gotta be around 4k, but we really need a figure here, 3800, 4200, something. Please don't leave me hanging like this.







j/k

[tsunami]

well i am a tenth of the way there.... do'h!! i need to start pan handlin or somfin!!

[IllBinfrontofya]

Hey juan, if local can i pick it up and save on shippin? JUST noticed you are like 1 hour from me :)

[Lord_Nycon]

What exactly will be included in the kit? boost controler? Blow off valve? Could we get some details on this please? Btw what exactly does a wastegate do?

[tsunami]

What exactly will be included in the kit? boost controler? Blow off valve? Could we get some details on this please? Btw what exactly does a wastegate do?


check the forced induction tech section if you want to know what cetian parts do and what they all mean... i would just take a look at the protege kit and would imagine you would be getting the same thing in the 3 kit.... he will post the complete kit on the website once he is ready to start shipping them i am sure....

[goldwing2000]

What exactly will be included in the kit? boost controler? Blow off valve? Could we get some details on this please?
See post #36 and post #49 on THIS THREAD. (boom07)

All about Turbos: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34431
Specifically Wastegates: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo6.htm

[Mazda3ofKent]

also thats at the crank, and the rumors i heard were that the awd wasn't going to be carried over into the ms3 and possible de-tunning b/c of no awd... the only good thing about it would be the direct port... now that has some potential with some turbo upgrades that should (blowjob) away an m3 with a hiboost.... but the only problem is no one knows when/if a ms3 is going to come out....
summer 2007 is what they say

[Da 6]

yeah and remember what hapened with the speed6? they made it heavier than the V6! So the car will be built for the turbo but it's more luxury and more intended for bragging to co-workers about ;)

"Ha screw your civic I got a speed 3! Huh jonny you got leather seats stock? Whats that no?"

Juan Hows the car holding up man? :)

[HiBoost TS]

yeah and remember what hapened with the speed6? they made it heavier than the V6! So the car will be built for the turbo but it's more luxury and more intended for bragging to co-workers about ;)

"Ha screw your civic I got a speed 3! Huh jonny you got leather seats stock? Whats that no?"

Juan Hows the car holding up man? :)

The car is still running very strong. All my friends want to drive it. Just today 8 different people drove it. They say is too fast.
It has been raining so I haven't had a good chance to take nice pics of the car on the street and maybe at the track tomorrow.

[DJ_Seija_Tenshi]

The car is still running very strong. All my friends want to drive it. Just today 8 different people drove it. They say is too fast.
It has been raining so I haven't had a good chance to take nice pics of the car on the street and maybe at the track tomorrow.

Sir Juan! Videos are needed. can we expect some drifting, lol!! With so much power going to the two front wheels, i would imagine this car having the ability to fly [with wings].

anyways, 4200 seems a bit much, although, i havent seen whats included. I'm sure a price drop will accure in the next 6 months, if not a yr? i'd rather pay 3000 for a turbo, although, seeing how strong this turbo u've provided all of us eager M3 speed racers, i can understand its hefty price.

thanks. thanks for a super kewl turbo. thanks for being the first with a turbo for the M3. But no thanks for the hefty price! ...hehe, hey, could u sponcer me and hook me up with a free turbo? eh, just a idea... :D ;)

...but please please please: hook all us up with videos, please! ;)

[HiBoost TS]

I will post some nice videos of the inside while boosting, the outside while boosting at the track and everything.


I will also post all whats included in the kit with pictures.

Juan
Sir Juan! Videos are needed. can we expect some drifting, lol!! With so much power going to the two front wheels, i would imagine this car having the ability to fly [with wings].

anyways, 4200 seems a bit much, although, i havent seen whats included. I'm sure a price drop will accure in the next 6 months, if not a yr? i'd rather pay 3000 for a turbo, although, seeing how strong this turbo u've provided all of us eager M3 speed racers, i can understand its hefty price.

thanks. thanks for a super kewl turbo. thanks for being the first with a turbo for the M3. But no thanks for the hefty price! ...hehe, hey, could u sponcer me and hook me up with a free turbo? eh, just a idea... :D ;)

...but please please please: hook all us up with videos, please! ;)

[MrTea]

As most i can't wait to see pics at the track! For reference, you are driving the car around at 10psi currently while your friends are saying too fast correct? thought you said you were running 10psi to see how it holds up around town. Also, other than piping, is the turbo manifold the only change between the 3 and 6 kits...other than tuning? getting very excited!! when you think you're headin stateside again? got Mazdafest coming up soon :)

[Da 6]

wonder what that bastard would do with R compounds :)

[Silver Bull3t]

I've never attempted a turbo install.... How difficult of an install will this be?? :confused:

[goldwing2000]

I've never attempted a turbo install.... How difficult of an install will this be?? :confused:

How mechanically inclined are you and how are you fixed for tools?

If you're one of those people who calls AAA to change your flat tire, then installing a turbo probably isn't for you.

If you don't mind getting dirty and busting a few knuckles, then you could probably manage with a good set of instructions and a good set of hand tools.

[Silver Bull3t]

I'd consider myself above average with tools. I installed my intake w/ no prob.

I just don't have a whole lot of tools or even a concrete slab to work on. I've got a bunch of standard and metric sockets, a smattering of channel lock plyers, the "usual" tools.... Most of my stuff is for carpentry, plumbing and electronics...

[goldwing2000]

Hmmm... you might have some difficulty, then. I'd say it's probably 20x more involved than swapping the intake.
Not having a garage makes it even more difficult.

It's not impossible but it's not easy for a car n00b. I would enlist the aid of some car nut friends if you wanted to get it done in one day.

[Silver Bull3t]

thanks, you probably just saved me from being crucified by my wife.. (sad1)




PS what's up with that burn? mark on you'r avatar?

[goldwing2000]

thanks, you probably just saved me from being crucified by my wife.. (sad1)




PS what's up with that burn? mark on you'r avatar?

Can't have any crucifixions on my watch... (no)



It's a soot mark from a guy parked in front of me in an MSP on one of our Michigan Mazda Drives. We all got a good laugh out of it, so I made it my avatar.

[1FASTMP5]

I will post some nice videos of the inside while boosting, the outside while boosting at the track and everything.


I will also post all whats included in the kit with pictures.

Juan



juan, i cant wait to see this car in person! if you need any info on track days coming up let me know. we have been doing alot of private track days(limited to 90 car's) instead of going with 400+ cars and only getting 2-3 runs.

[Loose]

Can't have any crucifixions on my watch... (no)



It's a soot mark from a guy parked in front of me in an MSP on one of our Michigan Mazda Drives. We all got a good laugh out of it, so I made it my avatar.
(lol)

[IllBinfrontofya]

Juan you going to be at the MazdaFest this May 7th? If so, U gotta take on the MS6!!!!! Dude, how fucking sweet would that be? A Mazda 3 with da hiboost taking out a brand new MS6!!!!! Talk about bragging rights big time!!!

[HiBoost TS]

Juan you going to be at the MazdaFest this May 7th? If so, U gotta take on the MS6!!!!! Dude, how fucking sweet would that be? A Mazda 3 with da hiboost taking out a brand new MS6!!!!! Talk about bragging rights big time!!!

I wish I had my Mazda3 in California. The Mazda 3 project is being done somewhere else, but I can bring our P5 or maybe we can install one car in California for Mazda Fest. Who wants to be the first with the kit and kill a MS6?

Let me know, I will come do the install and we can show the car at Mazd Fest. It has to be a 5 speed.

[Sylent_Snyper]

I wish I had my Mazda3 in California. The Mazda 3 project is being done somewhere else, but I can bring our P5 or maybe we can install one car in California for Mazda Fest. Who wants to be the first with the kit and kill a MS6?

Let me know, I will come do the install and we can show the car at Mazd Fest. It has to be a 5 speed.
Just curious, what would be the price 4 this little project/show? 4 example, if i were 2 "donate" my SP23, would there be a price cut since it would be promoting your product. i mean watching a 3 blow an ms6 away would be one hell of a way 2 showcase what u got! (gossip) (first)

[curacer1]

I wish I had my Mazda3 in California. The Mazda 3 project is being done somewhere else, but I can bring our P5 or maybe we can install one car in California for Mazda Fest. Who wants to be the first with the kit and kill a MS6?

Let me know, I will come do the install and we can show the car at Mazd Fest. It has to be a 5 speed.

i wanna be the first with the kit

[Mikey444]

meh, I'll blow a MS6 with my MTX Mazda 6 V6 (first) But seriously, I really want a 4 cyl. Mazda 6 now (sad1)

[MrTea]

Don't forget about me Juan! I think the kit on the 6 would be impressive as well...just need to get things going.

[DJ_Seija_Tenshi]

I wish I had my Mazda3 in California. The Mazda 3 project is being done somewhere else, but I can bring our P5 or maybe we can install one car in California for Mazda Fest. Who wants to be the first with the kit and kill a MS6?

Let me know, I will come do the install and we can show the car at Mazd Fest. It has to be a 5 speed.

not only hopes, dreams, and a shit load of luck is pushing my car... [LOL!!] :)

...well... i would be more than happy, for my 4AT. that would be even more reason to kill the M6. hahaha... but its ur call.

would u drive the car? or would the owner of the car drive it? And where is this Mazda Fest thing anyway? California? I'm out here in NJ. but taking a trip to California would be fine with me. i gotta take a road trip out there anyways. ;) :)

[TKTNURI]

I wish I had my Mazda3 in California. The Mazda 3 project is being done somewhere else, but I can bring our P5 or maybe we can install one car in California for Mazda Fest. Who wants to be the first with the kit and kill a MS6?

Let me know, I will come do the install and we can show the car at Mazd Fest. It has to be a 5 speed. I've been browsing the boards for awhile, a statement like this was worth registering and replying to.

Okay when's Mazda Fest and how soon can I expect my 3 to be boosted? BTW I'll even let you drive. Sacramento, CA I can drive anywhere you need me to be.

[gimpo2]

I've been browsing the boards for awhile, a statement like this was worth registering and replying to.

Okay when's Mazda Fest and how soon can I expect my 3 to be boosted? BTW I'll even let you drive. Sacramento, CA I can drive anywhere you need me to be.

hahahah awesome i really hope you're dead serious about this, i wanna see some fast ass 3's

[MrTea]

No thread jacking, but since a few people asked... Mazdafest.com will give you all the answers. Would be very cool to show up and be on par with mazda's newest i would have to say!

[Da 6]

meh, I'll blow a MS6 with my MTX Mazda 6 V6 (first) But seriously, I really want a 4 cyl. Mazda 6 now (sad1) If it were a downhill race..you'd loose! (smoke) Can't wait to see what you have planed in the 6 juan. I wanna say my car is to fast too.

[V8BRICK]

I don't mean to be an ass by coming on your forums and questioning numbers, but I couldn't let it go by without at least voicing some concern.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, I was linked to a dyno video of 278whp @ 10psi. Has anyone questioned the SAE correction factor used on these dyno numbers? From the looks of other dyno plots made by hiboost, it appears that they used a factor of 1.38!!??? Corrections factors are used to compensate for things like barometric pressure, humidity and temperature, which on forced induction cars bear less effect than n/a engines. In fact, it has more or less become a standard for most people to use uncorrected numbers for forced induction engines.

Basically, if you take the correction factor out of the 278whp number, you'll end up with 208whp, which really isn't bad for a stock 145hp car! I just thought I'd post my opinion and I'd hate to see someone buy a kit and think they'll dyno 278whp on 10psi. If there are 1/4 mile slips to view I'd guess the trap speeds would indicate much less power being put down. Again not trying to flame anyone, just trying to show that the correction factor plays a huge role in actual horsepower output, some dyno operators fudge the number to send the client out the door with a higher number to make them happy, or to sell products...

[IllBinfrontofya]

We'll just have to wait and see when juan comes back to the board. Maybe he can shed some light on this.

[Da 6]

just so nobody gets confused at what he's saying. 160 in BHP form and 145 is in(MTX) WHP form....

[HiBoost TS]

V8brick,

You are correct, the computer will correct to make it SAE corrected. We are doing the dynos at 9000 feet altitude! That is why the big correction factor.

But with my experience the Dynojet does it real good when calculating. The car stock made 92 WHP at this altitude when at sea level those cars make 134 WHP.

Our Proteges make 220 whp in California and here the same cars make 157 WHP. 157 x 1.38= 216.6 This is pretty close.

I will not lie to sell a product as people will eventually go to a dyno and will find out what the power is once they install the kit. We are very well know in the Mazda community and know that we will stand behind our products with real numbers.

Juan
I don't mean to be an ass by coming on your forums and questioning numbers, but I couldn't let it go by without at least voicing some concern.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, I was linked to a dyno video of 278whp @ 10psi. Has anyone questioned the SAE correction factor used on these dyno numbers? From the looks of other dyno plots made by hiboost, it appears that they used a factor of 1.38!!??? Corrections factors are used to compensate for things like barometric pressure, humidity and temperature, which on forced induction cars bear less effect than n/a engines. In fact, it has more or less become a standard for most people to use uncorrected numbers for forced induction engines.

Basically, if you take the correction factor out of the 278whp number, you'll end up with 208whp, which really isn't bad for a stock 145hp car! I just thought I'd post my opinion and I'd hate to see someone buy a kit and think they'll dyno 278whp on 10psi. If there are 1/4 mile slips to view I'd guess the trap speeds would indicate much less power being put down. Again not trying to flame anyone, just trying to show that the correction factor plays a huge role in actual horsepower output, some dyno operators fudge the number to send the client out the door with a higher number to make them happy, or to sell products...

[IllBinfrontofya]

Hell yea HiBoost!!! Juan you guys rock! Expect a sale from me in ht near future!

[Antoine]

The Mazda3 2.3 with F/I is definately going to help the scene...we might see the aftermarket pick up once everyone realizes how sweet the 3 2.3 turbo package is...further "boosted" by the MS3...things are definately looking up! ;)

Awesome thread :D

[goldwing2000]

I was linked to a dyno video of 278whp @ 10psi.

Actually, the video was 287, not 278. Just to nitpick.

[V8BRICK]

Yes 9000 ft would make a slight difference, but a dyno doesn't read the internal pressure that the turbo adds to the engine at that altitude, it makes a correction for less dense atmospheric air for that altitude, but the turbo still compensates for that thinner air by compressing it up to the same boost level of 10psi. The only difference altitude should make on a turboed engine is in spool time and power made before boost comes on and slight impairment on compressor efficiency, after that the pressure inside the engine is the same whether it's at sea level or 9000ft.

I just wanted to make sure people don't expect to hop on a dyno and put down 287whp with 10psi from a 145 crank hp engine. I just thought the correction factor was a bit excessive.

In a perfect volumetrically efficient world, horsepower should double with 14.7 lbs of pressure so if your 3 made 92whp n/a at 9000ft and 208whp w/10psi at 9000ft, you're more than doubling your uncorrected horsepower right there! That is great! Why inflate that up to 287whp then? I could see maybe pushing it to 220whp. I'm sure you'll sell plenty of kits either way, hell I'd love to have a 3 wagon with a turbo on it, very nice cars!

V8brick,

You are correct, the computer will correct to make it SAE corrected. We are doing the dynos at 9000 feet altitude! That is why the big correction factor.

But with my experience the Dynojet does it real good when calculating. The car stock made 92 WHP at this altitude when at sea level those cars make 134 WHP.

Our Proteges make 220 whp in California and here the same cars make 157 WHP. 157 x 1.38= 216.6 This is pretty close.

I will not lie to sell a product as people will eventually go to a dyno and will find out what the power is once they install the kit. We are very well know in the Mazda community and know that we will stand behind our products with real numbers.

Juan

[vindication]

V8BRICK, not stating those aren't valid points but Juan would not inflate his numbers, and never has. Why would he, he's released turbo kits for the Protege with the same correction factor, and guess what, they've dynoed at what he stated. If you're that skeptical, than just wait for someone to dyno theirs at sea level with SAE and no correction factor. Also, look at the Scion TC that thing put down 427(or something)whp on I think like less than 20psi, not sure exactly what. I'll go look for the info

edit: it was at 426whp at 17-18psi. granted it was with a GT3540R, but still. also, the 2.3MZR isn't that far off of the Scion engine

[IllBinfrontofya]

Hows the build quality compared to the TC's? I hate saying it, but I would THINK that the TC's engine is built to withstand much more boost then ours can. Then again, I could be wrong. We'll just have to wait and see all the boosted TC's break down.

[vindication]

well yes, theyre engine is built for more boost. that engine is a supra offspring. those numbers are on stock internals. but the M3 engine could get there too, just need a forged bottom end. but enough threadjacking....continue

[doogie]

A CN RSX-s stage 1 turko kit (stock internals) puts out 310-320 whp @ 10 psi. Food for thought. So their is no reason to doubt those numbers. As a matter of fact the car is running the stock exhust system and most likly with the cat. So what is the argument? Juan any comment?

[Da 6]

mazda MZR only has 160BHP(U.S. Spec)175BHP(JDM Spec) utilizing VVT, VTCS, and VILM where as honda has 200BHP(Stateside) on i-VTEC so you really can't compare the two motors 100% accross the border.

[Mikey444]

The only difference altitude should make on a turboed engine is in spool time and power made before boost comes on and slight impairment on compressor efficiency, after that the pressure inside the engine is the same whether it's at sea level or 9000ft.

At higher altitudes, the turbo will spool quicker than at sea level due to less resistence cause by the air being less dense. It's the exact same concept as a jet engine of an airplane, they are more fuel efficient at higher altitude because the air offers less resistance being thiner, so they spin more freely.

[doogie]

mazda MZR only has 160BHP(U.S. Spec)175BHP(JDM Spec) utilizing VVT, VTCS, and VILM where as honda has 200BHP(Stateside) on i-VTEC so you really can't compare the two motors 100% accross the border.
I am from Cybernation Motorsports.

[goldwing2000]

I am from Cybernation Motor Sports.

And? (scratch)

[doogie]

And? (scratch)
LOL. Nothing bro nothing.(bowdown)

[goldwing2000]

(dunno) Ummm... Ok.

[MIA protege]

subscribing ....

Juan is working magic once again

[eting_pro5]

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. The turbo doesn't compensate with the "same boost level of 10 psi." What the turbo does is add 10 psi to the atmospheric pressure. If we're at sea level, we're looking at 14.7 atmospheric psi + 10 psi boost to total at 24.7 psi. If we move up to 9000 feet, pressure is probably around 11 psi. Using the turbo to push another 10 psi nets 21 psi and the engine is getting less air. Less air = less power.

Think about this in terms of the human body. It's well known that athletes have difficulty adjusting when they play at good ol' Mile High Stadium in Denver. Using the same equipment (their lungs) they need to breath faster to recieve the same amount of air their body is used to. If they were to breath at the same rate as they did at lower altitudes, they'd have a difficult time supplying enough oxygen to their body to give their best performance. Same car, same equipment, same breathing rate = less air. Less air = less power.

Check out this site for a little discussion on the physics:
http://www.saabclub.com/242/altitude.htm#physics

"At 10,000 ft. this percentage loss of oxygen now approaches 30%."

Offers a little insight to the 1.38 correction factor.

Yes 9000 ft would make a slight difference, but a dyno doesn't read the internal pressure that the turbo adds to the engine at that altitude, it makes a correction for less dense atmospheric air for that altitude, but the turbo still compensates for that thinner air by compressing it up to the same boost level of 10psi. The only difference altitude should make on a turboed engine is in spool time and power made before boost comes on and slight impairment on compressor efficiency, after that the pressure inside the engine is the same whether it's at sea level or 9000ft.

I just wanted to make sure people don't expect to hop on a dyno and put down 287whp with 10psi from a 145 crank hp engine. I just thought the correction factor was a bit excessive.

In a perfect volumetrically efficient world, horsepower should double with 14.7 lbs of pressure so if your 3 made 92whp n/a at 9000ft and 208whp w/10psi at 9000ft, you're more than doubling your uncorrected horsepower right there! That is great! Why inflate that up to 287whp then? I could see maybe pushing it to 220whp. I'm sure you'll sell plenty of kits either way, hell I'd love to have a 3 wagon with a turbo on it, very nice cars!

[Airman Jack]

At higher altitudes, the turbo will spool quicker than at sea level due to less resistence cause by the air being less dense. It's the exact same concept as a jet engine of an airplane, they are more fuel efficient at higher altitude because the air offers less resistance being thiner, so they spin more freely.

your logic makes baby Jesus (and Aerospace Engineers) cry. (headshake)
Just kidding! :p It's a common misconception actually.... even 1st year Engineering students have to be 'reminded' of this! (fight)

Parasite drag on the airframe decreases with increase altitude, and that along with an increase in your True Airspeed (TAS) and a HUGE reduction in ambient air temperature is what makes turbine-powered aircraft more "efficient" at higher altitudes therefore reducing your indicated fuel flow. Click here (http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/Performance/Page5.html) for a brief but relatively effective explanation on this principle. Basically, it's the airplane encountering less resistance, not the engine internals, that make flying high a benefit.

And remember, Fear, Ridicule, and Sarcasam are always the best teaching methods!

woah... I belive this is my first official thread-jack! (jacked) Keep up the good work Juan! Only a year and a half until my warranty runs out ;)

[goldwing2000]

Can we take the jet engine discussion elsewhere until you guys figure out who's right and who's making baby jeebus cry?

Mikey, no offense but flying airplanes doesn't mean you know how they work. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Mikey444]

Can we take the jet engine discussion elsewhere until you guys figure out who's right and who's making baby jeebus cry?

Mikey, no offense but flying airplanes doesn't mean you know how they work. Just thought I'd point that out.

If you dont know how they work how can fly? I deleted my previous post, I'll just PM airman Jack.

[goldwing2000]

If you dont know how they work how can fly? I deleted my previous post, I'll just PM airman Jack.

How many people driving down the road understand the internal combustion engine?

Thanks for moving the convo. I'd hate to have to move it off-topic or delete posts.

[Mikey444]

You cant compare driving a car to flying a airplane

[goldwing2000]

You cant compare driving a car to flying a airplane

Why not? I have a friend who is a pilot and he couldn't tell you a thing about HOW the plane works, only how to control it.

Same with a lot of racecar drivers.

Operating skill and technical knowledge do not always coincide.

And now we're still off-topic.

If you wish to discuss this further, PM me.

[DJ_Seija_Tenshi]

off topic stuff, eh? interesting.

i'll put us back on topic. Turbo Mazda 3 videos, please. ;)
tune that car and put it on the race track. lets see some miracles happen!! pa-leaze~ :p

[eting_pro5]

Videos right HURRRR: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106289

[V8BRICK]

You make some valid points, but it depends on what type of boost controller Juan is using at 9000ft. If he's using an internal wastegate then the actuator is sealed from the factory at whatever atmospheric pressure that was ambient that day. An electronic boost controller is absolute, it can and does read pressure when the engine isn't running and knows exactly how much barometric pressure is acting against its diaphram. An ebc will compensate for the altitude and add more boost to reach its desired level. This does push the compressor further up its flow map, but doesn't necessarily hurt maximum power.

SAE has different correction factors, 3 I believe, that are designed to be used with forced induction engines with various types of boost control, I'll see if I can find the article. None of which are used by dynojet, I'd imagine the dyno would need a map signal from the engine to do an accurate correction for the amount of positive pressure the turbo adds.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. The turbo doesn't compensate with the "same boost level of 10 psi." What the turbo does is add 10 psi to the atmospheric pressure. If we're at sea level, we're looking at 14.7 atmospheric psi + 10 psi boost to total at 24.7 psi. If we move up to 9000 feet, pressure is probably around 11 psi. Using the turbo to push another 10 psi nets 21 psi and the engine is getting less air. Less air = less power.

Think about this in terms of the human body. It's well known that athletes have difficulty adjusting when they play at good ol' Mile High Stadium in Denver. Using the same equipment (their lungs) they need to breath faster to recieve the same amount of air their body is used to. If they were to breath at the same rate as they did at lower altitudes, they'd have a difficult time supplying enough oxygen to their body to give their best performance. Same car, same equipment, same breathing rate = less air. Less air = less power.

Check out this site for a little discussion on the physics:
http://www.saabclub.com/242/altitude.htm#physics

"At 10,000 ft. this percentage loss of oxygen now approaches 30%."

Offers a little insight to the 1.38 correction factor.

[Screamin'3]

mazda MZR only has 160BHP(U.S. Spec)175BHP(JDM Spec) utilizing VVT, VTCS, and VILM where as honda has 200BHP(Stateside) on i-VTEC so you really can't compare the two motors 100% accross the border.

What is the difference between the US Spec MZR adn the JDM spec? Where does the extra 15bhp come from?

[Da 6]

pistons & other lil internal difrences, pcm, compression ratio, and being tuned to run on higher octane.

[goldwing2000]

Yeah. You can get 15hp just from re-tuning the ECM.
They don't have CAFE standards in Japan, so they can probably waste some fuel, run a little dirtier and squeeze more power out.

[Da 6]

Yeah. You can get 15hp just from re-tuning the ECM.
They don't have CAFE standards in Japan, so they can probably waste some fuel, run a little dirtier and squeeze more power out. Exactly! none of the Can Bus OBDII B.S.