Dodge SRT4 Stage 3

[mikeyb]

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_83.jpg

Looking for a modern muscle car alternative to the new Ford Mustang GT and Pontiac GTO? You'll need power numbers like 355 horsepower, 365 lb-ft of torque, and a price under $30,000 to compete.


But what about a turbocharged front-wheel-drive Dodge Neon weighing less than 3000 pounds with the ability to push well over 20 pounds of boost? Is this a modern muscle car? It definitely is. It's even scary to drive at times, like some of the most bitchin' muscle cars of the 1960s.

Meet the Stage 3 Dodge SRT4 that we borrowed from DaimlerChrysler's Street, Racing, and Technology division, the same folks who have created beasts like the Ram SRT10, 300C SRT8, and Viper Competition Coupe.


You want more numbers? Try 0 to 60 mph in about five seconds flat and the quarter-mile in the mid-12s at more than 110 mph. Forget Mustang and GTO, that's Mitsubishi Lancer Evo and Subaru Impreza WRX territory and at least a full second quicker than a stock SRT4. More than that, those numbers put it ahead of its legendary budget-racer brethren like the 19691/2 Dodge Super Bee, which had a Six Pack 440-cubic-inch engine putting out 390 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque--good for quarter-mile times of 13 seconds flat at 110 mph right out of the box.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_84.jpg

We are the only journalists who have driven the Stage 3 car at the time of this writing, and it came to us more hopped up than Jose Canseco in the late 1980s, with a tuner catalog full of upgrades. Nearly all of them were developed in part by SRT, given Mopar Performance badges, and are available from Dodge dealers, just like a multitude of factory-engineered performance parts were available in the late 1960s from Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler. The Mopar Performance Stage 3R Turbo Upgrade Kit ($4199 MSRP) was the hottest bolt-on--the "R" is for "race only," so keep it off of public roads, wink wink. The kit is essentially a big Mitsubishi TD05 turbo with the necessary electronic and fueling enhancements to make it work. Our Stage 3R car also came with turbo toys, a three-control assembly mounted underneath the heater controls that allows you to spray the intercooler (off, auto, manual), play with the boost levels (zero through three), and--our favorite--switch on high octane mode. With regular 93 octane pump gasoline, the car puts out 310 hp and 325 lb-ft at the crankshaft, by no means old-lady numbers. Pump in 100 octane unleaded, and you'd better hold on to your potatoes as the engine pushes 355 hp and 365 lb-ft to the crank.


Most of the other upgrades were there to help make the most out of the big turbo: Mopar Stage 2 coilover suspension, larger antiroll bars, extremely stiff rear tension struts, front and rear titanium strut tower braces, short-throw shifter, upgraded clutch ... all these from Mopar/SRT. The car also had a cat-back exhaust, air-fuel meter on the A-pillar, and seven-inch-wide Dodge Stratus R/T sedan wheels (stock SRT4 rims are only six inches wide). If you installed these parts yourself, you'd invest about $28,500, including the original SRT4. All this makes your warranty go up in so much tire smoke.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_85.jpg

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_81.jpg

Not surprisingly, traction is definitely the weak part of this equation, even with wide wheels and sticky BFGoodrich KD skins. Dumping the clutch drag-race style will do you no good on cold Michigan roads that are as dry and salty as a Saltine. Instead, carefully engage the notchy first gear without touching the throttle to get the car rolling.


The next few seconds change your life. Smoothly yet promptly push the gas pedal to the floor. You feel a brief bit of bog until the boost starts rocketing up around 2200 rpm.

Kablizawack! If you didn't reflexively lift off the throttle at the sound of all Hades breaking loose when the revs reached somewhere just north of three grand and the boost gauge spiked above 15 psi, the car has surged forward--though not quite as quickly as both free-wheeling front tires--and the tachometer has shot up to redline, where the rev limiter rudely spoils your fun. Quick-shift to second, re-apply your right foot, and torque again overpowers the tires, though this time you get a little more traction with your wheelspin and the car is going about 60 mph when the rev-limiter game starts back up a couple of seconds later. Don't worry about watching the boost gauge unless you intend to drift into the dump truck one lane over. Just steer.


In third gear, you have to hang on tighter than you would on any Honda motorcycle ever owned by a Beach Boy. On winter roads, traction is still slightly overwhelmed at wide-open throttle in third, but the monstrous pull nonetheless squishes you back into the seat as you surpass 90 mph and sling the gearshifter into fourth. SRT drivers have hit 165 mph on the track before running out of room.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_87.jpg

Judicious application of the throttle is imperative when you are trying to get traction in a 6000-plus horsepower Funny Car, and the same is true if you want to avoid wheelspin and get the most power out of the Stage 3 SRT4 in the first two--even three--gears. We had most of our fun in third gear on the highway, slamming ourselves back into the supportive Viper-inspired seats again and again as the boost spooled upward of 21 psi and speeds leapt from 60 mph to figures better suited for the racetrack. The car is not as easy to drive nor as well-balanced as an Evo, but it's highly rewarding when you get it right.


Handling also is excellent, as a result of the stiff suspension package and 2970-pound curb weight. Due to the road conditions, we didn't have a chance to steer it through many twisties, but it clearly is a nimble car. The limited-slip axle probably would help on curvy roads, however, under acceleration through slow, tight corners, the steering wheel winds up and tries to rip itself from your grasp. The car probably would smooth out in larger-radii, faster curves.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_89.jpg

Living with the Stage 3 SRT4 day-to-day is tolerable, though driving it demands your full attention. With the suspension upgrades and wide tires, the Dodge pounds its occupants and tramlines if you're not careful. Torque steer is surprisingly absent, replaced by more of a torque slide. After a test drive, executive editor Mark Gillies said, "they've found a cure for torque steer--it's called wheelspin." He's right. Frequent inadvertent tire squeals are a way of life in the Stage 3 SRT4. Excessive road noise, a cheap interior, and lack of long-distance comfort are annoyances consistent with any muscle car, but they are forgotten with the whoosh of the boost. Clasping the Hurst-style shift ball and stirring through the nicely notched gears also brings back muscle cars memories.


And what would a muscle car be without a distinctive exhaust note? The Stage 3 SRT4 gurgles deeply and pops with pent-up back pressure on throttle liftoff--just like a professional rally car. In fact, Mopar-sponsored Stage 3 SRT4s have been campaigned successfully in SCCA ProRally events, winning two-wheel-drive championships and turning in overall times not far behind those of all-wheel-drive opponents.


The Dodge Neon likely will be replaced by the upcoming Caliber in 2007. We hope the SRT can cook up an even hotter SRT4 on that platform.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_80.gif

When we first drove a Dodge SRT4 for our April 2003 issue, it absolutely stomped on three other pocket rockets--Ford SVT Focus, Mazdaspeed Protégé, and Mini Cooper S--in a fight that was won by the SRT4's raw power. The Stage 3-equipped car that we drove simply crushes its stock brethren, which already nips close behind modern Detroit muscle like the Ford Mustang GT. Traction willing, a Stage 3 SRT4 would stand tall in a straight-line comparison against rally-bred favorites like the Mitsubishi Lancer EVO MR and the Subaru Impreza WRX STi.


If there's any doubt that the SRT4 is a modern muscle car, spend a few grand souping one up and see how much fun it is to run with the classic and contemporary big dogs at the local drag strip.

http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_stage3/

[Gbourdon]

Well. My MSP is going for a trade in.

[warrier04]

the car still has a fat ass.

[JCell]

it's the SRT 4 type 'R', run for cover!

[txrxs]

Well. My MSP is going for a trade in.
Bastard(outie)

[Yay-Boost]

Mopar kicks so much ass. I wish Mazda would come out with parts like that for their cars. People with MSP's P5's and MP3's have dumped over $10,000 in to their and can't touch those kind of numbers! 355 hp for just over $4000 DAMN

[mp5zoomer]

the car still has a fat ass.

it may have a fat ass but after a seecond or two it will look small as it's pulling away

[JCell]

yeah, but the msp looks so sexy, the srt-4 looks fugly from every angle

[1FASTMP5]

the mopar stage 3 makes WAY more than these guys claim. one of my buddy's has the stage 3 kit on his car. it's a high 11's sec street car...with only a few small bolt-on's.

[Devilspawn]

just gets better and better...

[Rism]

going fast in a straight line owns! :rolleyes:

[122 Vega]

Here we go again.

Britt

[warrier04]

it may have a fat ass but after a seecond or two it will look small as it's pulling away

and then we go through turns and i catch up.

different cars have different forte's.

[peepsalot]

But look at the instument cluster...
Dave-B rings come stock!! (shocked)

[evilmonkeyMSP]

as my fiance has said about the SRT4 " Its like a nerd that knows karate, Yeah he can kick your ass but he's still a nerd"

[MetalSpeed]

Bastard(outie)


LOL(laugh) (rofl)

[seanmcsean]

deep down, its still a neon, and I'd never buy one.

[pb4ugoout]

Shit!

[1FASTMP5]

going fast in a straight line owns! :rolleyes:


not true man.... with only hotchkins sway bars & b&g coilovers my srt-4 handles AS good if not better then a msp. NO b.s...

i will say this though.... when it comes to hight speed cornering the msp is WAY more stable/predictable in the turns.

[wannabe]

as my fiance has said about the SRT4 " Its like a nerd that knows karate, Yeah he can kick your ass but he's still a nerd"

lol. classy

[brianmcd]

I'd rather have an evo ;\

~brian

[Mike R]

not true man.... with only hotchkins sway bars & b&g coilovers my srt-4 handles AS good if not better then a msp. NO b.s...

i will say this though.... when it comes to hight speed cornering the msp is WAY more stable/predictable in the turns.

I agree, I saw one with springs and swaybars beat all the MSP's at a local autocross.

[evilmonkeyMSP]

STI for me thanks

[otmsp]

two srt4`s finished last in the touring car race in St.Pete.Fl this last weekend,while one msp retired and the other came in 8th place out of 30 cars.Mazda 6 won! Like I said srt4 last place...... neon.....neon.....

[txrxs]

hate hate hate...

[Micah]

Saw whatever you want about the SRT4's handling characteristics.

The fact is that it's much cheaper and safer to upgrade suspension components than it is to upgrade engine components - especially with the FSDE.

However, the damn thing still looks like a skittle. Then again, the MSP and MP3 are just a paintjob and body kit away from being a standard DX, LX, or ES sedan in the looks department.

Sounds like alot of jealous MSP owners to me. There's no need for that though, talk to MPNick and get to tuning. Plenty of success stories on this forum from MPI. Granted, there are a list of people who have had problems too - but in EVERY CASE they had problems with their cars that needed to be fixed. Invest a couple grand in Forged Internals, the MPI Tuner w/TM, extra injectors, a FMIC, and a cheap laptop for tuning -- no more worries about STI/EVO/SRT4, plus the joy and pride (and aguably headache) of owning a modded/tuned car.

[wannabe]

However, the damn thing still looks like a skittle. Then again, the MSP and MP3 are just a paintjob and body kit away from being a standard DX, LX, or ES sedan in the looks department.



how is that different from the SRT-4 over a base neon?

[anarchistchiken]

I love how they made the integrated switches for the boost control and whatnot look just as shitty as the rest of the interior, lol.


They might be fast, but I've owned a neon, and I will never own another, it's just that simple.

And if we're talking about looks, I'd take a stock ex over an SRT4 (looks wise) anyday. And that goes triple for a msp/mp3, and like 7x for a P5 :D

[RenzoMSP]

I still have power rear windows. Ha beat that.

[wannabe]

so your saying youd rather have 7 p5s over 1 srt-4? who WOULDNT take that deal (evil)

[Micah]

how is that different from the SRT-4 over a base neon?


That's my point, the WRX/STI(Impreza), Ralliart/EVO(Lancer), and MP3/MSP(Protege) are all in the same boat which is "Budget tuned econoboxes".

[wannabe]

That's my point, the WRX/STI(Impreza), Ralliart/EVO(Lancer), and MP3/MSP(Protege) are all in the same boat which is "Budget tuned econoboxes".

i gotcha

[Micah]

That's not to say it's a bad thing, there are pro's and con's. Just I wouldn't expect a platform designed for a target retail of 15k to have the potential of a platform with double the target retail.

However when it comes to factory tuning it seems that most cars are tuned on the extremely safe side of performance, so for someone who is willing to spend the time tuning - there are significant gains to be had.

Then again, my protege blew it's engine once, and I decided to go back to stock and later when I had the money - I opted to finance a new car that had the performance I was looking for opposed to building and tuning again. (I also work 70+ hours a week)

$0.02

[Iggy]

yeah that thing is fast, but all that power in a front drive car is nuts. imagine that in the snow...yikes


and for all those who say the srt-4 will loose aroun a corner, they should know about the ACR package for it. supposedly itll make it one of the best handling front drive cars ever

[toucci]

yeah that thing is fast, but all that power in a front drive car is nuts. imagine that in the snow...yikes


and for all those who say the srt-4 will loose aroun a corner, they should know about the ACR package for it. supposedly itll make it one of the best handling front drive cars ever

700 bucks and you can have the same shocks and springs on a regular protege and actually be able to step on the gas mid corner.

[Rism]

700 bucks and you can have the same shocks and springs on a regular protege and actually be able to step on the gas mid corner.

with enough money you can make any car handle good

[Iggy]

700 bucks and you can have the same shocks and springs on a regular protege and actually be able to step on the gas mid corner.

for 1295 you could have a full suspension, wheels and tires with the ACr package

[1FASTMP5]

for 1295 you could have a full suspension, wheels and tires with the ACr package


dont forget they will come in white!(2thumbs)

[FBI14]

supposedly itll make it one of the best handling front drive cars ever

from BBS rims and new Shocks (uhm)

[protegeV]

lets put it this way...its a helluva lot easier and cheaper to make a fast car handle than to make a good-handling car fast. In other words, we are all pwned;)

[FBI14]

why is it that going fast in a staright line makes the car better than ours....did everyone who bought a MSP say they were so they could have the fastest car ever? Why is it that a car that can get to speed quicker than us automatically means its a superior car, maybe if thats all you care about but still seems like a hollow reason to say its a better car

[1FASTMP5]

from BBS rims and new Shocks (uhm)


it will have different sway bar's, tokico illum shocks, different spring rates.

[igdrasil]

heres some SRT4 stage 3 action on pump fuel

http://www.digitalestudio.com/users/pochacco/media/clandestinapista1.wmv

[FBI14]

it will have different sway bar's, tokico illum shocks, different spring rates.

link?

[1FASTMP5]

link?


here is a link with a few pic's:

link.http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108425&highlight=acr+srt-4

they havent released to much info on the acr yet.

[vindication]

I saw the ACR at the NY auto car show. looked like a reg srt-4, but then again I didn't spend to much time looking at it. was busy looking at the Charger SRT-8

[seanmcsean]

as was I.. if they dropped a 6 speed into that srt-8 it would be mine

[anarchistchiken]

I saw the ACR at the NY auto car show. looked like a reg srt-4, but then again I didn't spend to much time looking at it. was busy looking at the Charger SRT-8

I dont think there's any cosmetic difference. Just a badass suspension. I dont know much about the new one, but in the 1st gen neons, the ACr package upgraded just about every piece of equipment between the steering wheel and the tarmac. Tires, brakes, suspenions, sway bars, steering ratio, wheels (I think). It was a sweet little package.

[bigcc63]

deep down, its still a neon, and I'd never buy one.

I agree, its still a neon............

[FBI14]

On the Dodge site they list 16 inch BBS rims, Viper Seats, ACR badge, and Competition Suspension

[protegeV]

I agree, its still a neon............yeah, and an MSP is still a protege...same econo car basis as every neon, cavalier, civic, sentra, focus, and corolla out there...I bet an SRT will last longer all-around than any MSPs...all MSPs might be totalled b4 then though(lol2) I dont know which is "better" per se, but I know which one gives you more for your money ;)

[Aricjm15]

I dont think there's any cosmetic difference. Just a badass suspension. I dont know much about the new one, but in the 1st gen neons, the ACr package upgraded just about every piece of equipment between the steering wheel and the tarmac. Tires, brakes, suspenions, sway bars, steering ratio, wheels (I think). It was a sweet little package.
it came with Koni adjustible struts 22mm swaybar in front and a 20mm in back, also had higer rate springs
the ACR did not have any sound deadining material, and did not have AC, regular neon weighs 2600lbs ACR was around 2300lbs

The fastest dodge neon is still a first gen btw :)

[FBI14]

but I know which one gives you more for your money ;)

If all you want is speed

[Autox MSP]

dood i owned a msp, its not all that. Or else they'd have high resale value.

[protegeV]

well SRTs dont have high resale value either...If u want that in a sports car buy an S2k

[Artur1976]

Our cars have horrible resale value noone wants them. I listed mine on the autotrader and not even 1 call. I priced it cheap too.

[mikeyb]

My cousin has a SRT with most of the Mopar mods which he traded a modded 02 REX in for it. Now he's trying to unload the SRT for either a STi or EVO. But the trade in value on the SRT is terrible.

[Shane5425]

the question though still stands... how long will it last before it starts falling apart.. if it holds up like other neons... god help them...

[Artur1976]

Like the MSP is build any better. At least the engine in the SRT can handle more than 10psi. I think that the pos SRT has us beat even in the reliablility depertmant.

[Aricjm15]

the question though still stands... how long will it last before it starts falling apart.. if it holds up like other neons... god help them...
most of the ones you see falling apart are the ones people never took care of.
the 2.4 thats in the SRT-4 is a damn tough engine, Dodge had alot of turbo cars back in the 80's, the headgaskets sucked but the blocks could hold 34psi or more with no modification. around 97 they switched to a multi layer steel headgasket in the neons, no more headgasket problems.

[Gbourdon]

I went to the dodge dealer today to find out what it would cost to get an SRT4 with the Stage 3 upgrade. They will finance the whole thing at once.

They offered me 8K for my msp (spin)

[txmzdspd2gen]

Didnt the 1st gen neons places 2nd and third in scca races. This was against 2gen proteges (bonacorssi). Oh they won once..they have to cheat and put a stiffer rear sway bar to be able to beat the 98 protege es of paul B. Of course they got disqualified..lol..


Those neon srt are ok..wish most of their drivers act mature enough to handle such power...mostly bunch of jerks.IMO..

[Rism]

I went to the dodge dealer today to find out what it would cost to get an SRT4 with the Stage 3 upgrade. They will finance the whole thing at once.

They offered me 8K for my msp (spin)

have fun going 25mph around corners

[Shane5425]

most of the ones you see falling apart are the ones people never took care of.
the 2.4 thats in the SRT-4 is a damn tough engine, Dodge had alot of turbo cars back in the 80's, the headgaskets sucked but the blocks could hold 34psi or more with no modification. around 97 they switched to a multi layer steel headgasket in the neons, no more headgasket problems.

i am not talkin about engine wise.. i am talkin about stuff like the interior, how well it holds up, and how long does the car itself hold up..

as for the engine wise, i know the msp dosnt like great boost unless its a built motor..

[jonlong]

My friend just bought an SRT and it is amazing. With a little money, the SRT can beat most muscle cars in a straight line drag and out handle everything but nicely modded STi's and Evo's. The interior is nice for a $20k car and the performance and potential for upgrade is unbeatable. Seems like a lot of people here think the SRT is a piece of shit compared to a MSP, but watch out...they're dominating at both drag races and auto-x.

[Artur1976]

The SRT is the best car ever made no hating here.

[nautical2086]

Cars just awesome, If i could afford insurance I'd get an srt 4, car looks mean and its fast. Good shit, id still keep my protege though, looks beter, lol

[122 Vega]

have fun going 25mph around corners

Simply not true. Especially with the new ACR option. Having a ton of power to pull you out of the corners is a great feeling. It's all about exit speed. I wish that I had taken both cars out for a track day, I would bet that on the average course, the SRT would have beaten the MSP hands down. Was the SRT as stable in corners? No, probably not, but if you are stable than you aren't going fast enough. Besides, the MSP's superior handling only lasts about 1500 miles until the 156Es fail and you end up with a flapping bar in the rear.

Cars just awesome, If i could afford insurance I'd get an srt 4, car looks mean and its fast.

My insurance was $8 cheaper per month on the SRT-4.

And also, as far as resale goes, I got sticker for my SRT-4 trade in, plus $4500 rebate and ended up with a fully optioned QC Dakota for less than the SRT-4 cost new. I couldn't say no.

Britt

[Gbourdon]

have fun going 25mph around corners

(doughpoke

[VegasMSP]

Leave my skittle alone! :rolleyes: I'm actually saving up for the stage 3 w/ toys for my car. The kit itself is only around $3,600, which is nothing because I spent almost the same amount when I had my MSP. Or I can go a big turbo route (www.agpturbo.com (http://www.agpturbo.com/)) $1,850 (turbo, manifold, wastegate and etc.) + $900 (safcII, msd tac driver, 750cc RC injectors, walbaro 255 fuel pump) which will bring the car on pump gas at 350hp or over 400hp tuned. Buying the parts for these cars are fairly cheap and have lots of support from the vendors. I still miss my MSP sometimes, but when I'm in boost on my SRT4 I forget everything and have an evil grin on my face :). Oh yeah, psst! Gbourdon I know your thinking about it. DO IT! j/k :P I haven't regret owning mine.

[otmsp]

I love that damn fast neon! (headbang)

[Artur1976]

Why are most people think so high of the MSP handling and think that the SRT is a turd when it comes to handling. At the local auto x SRT are beating many cars including the MSP. Driver has a lot to due with it but its not a bad handling car.
And how many more times we going to hear this. I lostin a drag race to a insert whatever car u wish. The next post is [ just take him to the curves then u will show him}

[1FASTMP5]

have fun going 25mph around corners


RIGHT! this statement is sooooooooooooooooooooo NOT true.

[Micah]

It's because the MSP owners are insanely jealous.

The fact of the matter is the FSDE is an old engine, and was never designed for power. That's not to say it can't be done, but there's simply no comparison to an engine built for f/i.

Also, the skidpad on a stock SRT4 is .85, on an MSP it's .88 - this is not a huge variance. The stock Protege has a skidpad of .79 for reference sake. The fact is that the MSP will get owned by the SRT4 in the straights, more than enough to make up for any turns that will be encountered in average driving. With minimal investment towards modification, the suspension of an SRT4 can be changed to surpass that of the MSP. The MSP on the other hand, requires a significant investment to match the power of the SRT4, and aside from the MPI Tuner - there haven't been many success stories when it comes to tuning big power from the FSDE.

MSP owners will always rag on the SRT4 because it looks like a Neon, hell- I've even done it. The fact is though - IT IS A NEON! Just like the MSP - IS A PROTEGE! The jealous ricer attitude that gets displayed on the forum everytime someone brings up the SRT4 is more than a little rediculous, and I think most of the people who have been on the forum for a long time have grown accustomed to it. It's the young drivers, and people who just bought the car that come on the forum and get upset mostly now. Hopefully in time the people who bought the MSP will come to terms with the better traits of their own cars instead of feeling that the only way they can feel ok is to put down the SRT4.

If not - trade up to something better or start working on mods/tuning.

[FBI14]

have fun going 25mph around corners

Got a ride in a 03 SRT when they first came out... wheels broke lose at 25

Quote about the SRT's stock suspension

"a contest in howling tires and understeer at every on ramp."

[FBI14]

Also, the skidpad on a stock SRT4 is .85, on an MSP it's .88 - this is not a huge variance. The stock Protege has a skidpad of .79 for reference sake. The fact is that the MSP will get owned by the SRT4 in the straights, more than enough to make up for any turns that will be encountered in average driving.




As you have surely guessed, the SRT-4 was the faster of the two, but not by much. It took more than three miles for the SRT-4 to pull an appreciable gap on the Protegé.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0301scc_20gsdodge/

[otmsp]

It's because the MSP owners are insanely jealous.

The fact of the matter is the FSDE is an old engine, and was never designed for power. That's not to say it can't be done, but there's simply no comparison to an engine built for f/i.

Also, the skidpad on a stock SRT4 is .85, on an MSP it's .88 - this is not a huge variance. The stock Protege has a skidpad of .79 for reference sake. The fact is that the MSP will get owned by the SRT4 in the straights, more than enough to make up for any turns that will be encountered in average driving. With minimal investment towards modification, the suspension of an SRT4 can be changed to surpass that of the MSP. The MSP on the other hand, requires a significant investment to match the power of the SRT4, and aside from the MPI Tuner - there haven't been many success stories when it comes to tuning big power from the FSDE.

MSP owners will always rag on the SRT4 because it looks like a Neon, hell- I've even done it. The fact is though - IT IS A NEON! Just like the MSP - IS A PROTEGE! The jealous ricer attitude that gets displayed on the forum everytime someone brings up the SRT4 is more than a little rediculous, and I think most of the people who have been on the forum for a long time have grown accustomed to it. It's the young drivers, and people who just bought the car that come on the forum and get upset mostly now. Hopefully in time the people who bought the MSP will come to terms with the better traits of their own cars instead of feeling that the only way they can feel ok is to put down the SRT4.

If not - trade up to something better or start working on mods/tuning.
So big fucking deal!>>>> srt4`s come in last in touring races.Why ??? Msp`s do a hell of a lot better .Please explain why they come last? Could it possibly be that the whole car is just a piece of shit that goes fast in a 1/4mile . (sssh)

[Micah]

As you have surely guessed, the SRT-4 was the faster of the two, but not by much. It took more than three miles for the SRT-4 to pull an appreciable gap on the Protegé.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0301scc_20gsdodge/

"Gathering performance data, it quickly became clear the SRT-4 was dominating the straight-line tests, and the Mazdaspeed Protegé was being equally relentless with the handling tests. To break the tie, we took to the mountains and let real-world speed decide the winner. As you have surely guessed, the SRT-4 was the faster of the two, but not by much. It took more than three miles for the SRT-4 to pull an appreciable gap on the Protegé. While not as solid and composed as the Protegé, the Neon still showed decent balance, good grip, strong, fade-free brakes, and of course, staggering pull between the corners. This is a lot of performance for $20,000."

Ain't context a bitch?

So it turns out that if you want to race an MSP vs. an SRT4 - all you have to do is 'take to the mountains'. I'm trying to find the spot in the article where they say that the MSP got ahead of the SRT... can't seem to find it.

Maybe you can find it?

[FBI14]

"Gathering performance data, it quickly became clear the SRT-4 was dominating the straight-line tests, and the Mazdaspeed Protegé was being equally relentless with the handling tests. To break the tie, we took to the mountains and let real-world speed decide the winner. As you have surely guessed, the SRT-4 was the faster of the two, but not by much. It took more than three miles for the SRT-4 to pull an appreciable gap on the Protegé. While not as solid and composed as the Protegé, the Neon still showed decent balance, good grip, strong, fade-free brakes, and of course, staggering pull between the corners. This is a lot of performance for $20,000."

Ain't context a bitch?

So it turns out that if you want to race an MSP vs. an SRT4 - all you have to do is 'take to the mountains'. I'm trying to find the spot in the article where they say that the MSP got ahead of the SRT... can't seem to find it.

Maybe you can find it?

I actaully find it a pleasent gift, they say its not as composed as the MSP, I think thats a big point showing the the MSP has a more confidence inspiring ride and feel and for the underpowered not ment to be boosted MSP to keep up with the "greatest car ever made" as people make it seem how they defend it, I think thats a rather good point, shows how a good blend of all charateristics of a car done right can be just as dangerous as a blindly fast car

[II-Savy]

Ok ok, let's all just chill out. The SRT is just not a complete package. It's fast but that's it. The exterior and interior are pure "car rental" gross. The MSP is a more well rounded car period. It has the options and looks and SOME HP to drive pretty dam good.

[FBI14]

"
Ain't context a bitch?


"The Mazdaspeed Protegé gives up 73 hp and a 100 lb-ft of torque to the overendowed SRT-4, and yet it was surprisingly close to nudging the Dodge out of the top spot. The fact is, none of this car's test numbers, not even its winning handling numbers, do justice to the Protegé's true capabilities."

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0301scc_20gsmazda/

So they said the Mini CooperS, SVT Focus, GTi 18.t, Tiburon V6, Civic Si, and Sentra Spec V were close to nudging the SRT out ? And I should think my car is inferior and be jealous..... (screwy)

[SpicyMchaggis]

Curious. Voids your warranty, but how long will it last on stock internals?

[VegasMSP]

Curious. Voids your warranty, but how long will it last on stock internals?

Sup SpicyMchaggis! Long time no speaky! Ever since I should my MSP, I haven't beeen that active on this board. Mainly if do any modification to an SRT4 (including Mopar stage kits unless the dealer installs it and have a cool service manager), it will be voided. Most of the SRTs I've seen on the forums over on srt forums are holding 400-450hp fine w/ stock internals. All the stock internals are forged stock on this car. I've seen members push 500hp and BOOM! This motor actually has been around for a long time. It came from a 2.4 Turbo stratus/cirrus in mexico in the late 90's. PVO took the motor and replaced all the internals. Mopar knows what the limit is on that motor, in which they created the stage kits. So stage 3 can push 355hp/365tq w/ high octane mode on. They even run this kits rich to prevent detonation and have reliability.

Here's an article about the 2.4 turbo motor for the srt.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0309_srt/index1.html


Hope this helps, I'm not trying step on anyone's toes here. Just educating. I was the same when I had my MSP. Now I'm happy I have a motor I can rely on.

[II-Savy]

I don't think anyone can say anything really about the motor. It's too bad they didn't put that monster into a real car.

[otmsp]

[QUOTE=Micah]"Gathering performance data, it quickly became clear the SRT-4 was dominating the straight-line tests, and the Mazdaspeed Protegé was being equally relentless with the handling tests. To break the tie, we took to the mountains and let real-world speed decide the winner. As you have surely guessed, the SRT-4 was the faster of the two, but not by much. It took more than three miles for the SRT-4 to pull an appreciable gap on the Protegé. While not as solid and composed as the Protegé, the Neon still showed decent balance, good grip, strong, fade-free brakes, and of course, staggering pull between the corners. This is a lot of performance for $20,000."
So you spend your time reading gay ass data on your computer or car magazines while I go the races and watched about 28 different cars(mazda 6,bmw325,tsx,rsx,msp,focus,ivtec,etc) kick the srt4`s ass all over the track. At the races you can see the real performance of a car.ZOOM....ZOOM....context.....

[Artur1976]

The best of mag racing.
Put a couple hundred $ into the SRT suspension and the MSP gets owned.

[jonlong]

Real world racing doesn't consist of people racing stock vs. stock. A guy w/ an SRT gets motor mounts and new shocks/struts for about a grand and will smoke an MSP, in the turns and the straights. And the SRT isn't built out of a bone stock neon, there are structural changes as well. So saying that "it's still a neon" isn't completely true. Besides, a stock protege is pretty nasty too.

[II-Savy]

The best of mag racing.
Put a couple hundred $ into the SRT suspension and the MSP gets owned.

Depends what you mean by owned. It will take a lot more than a couple hundred to make the WHOLE car nicer.

Guys it's not ALL about HP and 1/4 mile times. Don't want a NICE over all car? Why sacrifice(sp) looks, options, and conviences for going fast?

[otmsp]

The best of mag racing.
Put a couple hundred $ into the SRT suspension and the MSP gets owned.
they do have better suspencion and no they do not own no msp`s infact they come in last...TOURING CAR RACES ...CHECK THEM OUT THEY ARE SO FUN TO WACHT ---MAZDA 6 ARE THE ONES TO BEAT--BUT MSP`S ARE SO NICE TO SEE WHOOPING ON A BUNCH OF OTHER CARS INCLUDING fart4`s.. Just keep on listening to your computer buddies and reading gay ass magazines about the wonders of a stupid neon that has no race (puke) capabilities ..ZOOM..ZOOM..

[Artur1976]

In the road racing and auto x aspect.
MSP is a much better looking car and the interior is like 10 times nicer too no question about that.

[Artur1976]

Ok go to any local autox and u will see.

[Familia323]

it works for me....

[Iggy]

lord, this thread turned into something that should be put in the dumpster, cant we just stop this endless debate

[KonspiracyImage]

the car might be fast but i dont realy like the looks that much.

[Shane5425]

agreed, it might be faster, but it is still ugly, i am sure its a good car, but like many of the reviews said about the msp, its a evenly distrubuted car, handling, power curve, stylings are all evenly matched on the msp..

[otmsp]

agreed, it might be faster, but it is still ugly, i am sure its a good car, but like many of the reviews said about the msp, its a evenly distrubuted car, handling, power curve, stylings are all evenly matched on the msp..
I agree..

[Artur1976]

power curve?
My car is missing that one. What power the mighty 170hp.

[anarchistchiken]

power curve?
My car is missing that one. What power the mighty 170hp.

*sarcasm*You win the prize for most intelligent statement of the day!!!*sarcasm*


You're kidding, right?

[torque222]

this info might help you guys settle a few points, stock vs stock the srt is faster (msp 14.9-15.3) in the 1/4 (srt 13.8-14.4) in the 1/4... as far as interior they both have their pros and cons. engine capability a stock motor in the msp is good for maybe 325hp (safely and reliable) the srt motor is good for 450hp (safely and reliable) looks and styling... the msp is by far the better looking of the two but the srt looks more aggresive. suspension goes to the msp, but the srt is not that far behind. the bottom line is that if you own either car, you are in good shape, and either car can be made faster and handle better than the other if the amount of money invested is enough. the reason i believe this is because i've owned both.

[II-Savy]

this info might help you guys settle a few points, stock vs stock the srt is faster (msp 14.9-15.3) in the 1/4 (srt 13.8-14.4) in the 1/4... as far as interior they both have their pros and cons. engine capability a stock motor in the msp is good for maybe 325hp (safely and reliable) the srt motor is good for 450hp (safely and reliable) looks and styling... the msp is by far the better looking of the two but the srt looks more aggresive. suspension goes to the msp, but the srt is not that far behind. the bottom line is that if you own either car, you are in good shape, and either car can be made faster and handle better than the other if the amount of money invested is enough. the reason i believe this is because i've owned both.

I disagree about the interior. They are not even close. There is no dought the SRT is faster. It just doesn't have that refined look.

[torque222]

I disagree about the interior. They are not even close. There is no dought the SRT is faster. It just doesn't have that refined look.what i meant about the interior and the pros and cons is...front seats..my 05 srt seats are way better than my 03.5 msp seat were. msp console and dash are better set up, the srt has a boost gauge, which i believe the msp should of had one from the factory as well but did not. and factory radio the msp is better unless the srt has the livin loud kicker system then they are about even. but over all i am pleased with both of them.

[brianmcd]

stock msp engine is not good for 350hp...

~brian

[Akaveli]

more like 250

[1FASTMP5]

more like 250

yup, and even @ 250whp you wont last much more than a year.

[igdrasil]

yup, and even @ 250whp you wont last much more than a year.

i disagree...250whp daily is ok if you do things right. Max whp Ive seen is 267whp on stock internals, and im sure 300whp can last a few months.

[Familia323]

^ooohh exciting... a car that lasts a few months before it needs thousands of dollars in repair.....*cough*not worth it*cough*....... Im happy with my slowtege..

[igdrasil]

^ooohh exciting... a car that lasts a few months before it needs thousands of dollars in repair.....*cough*not worth it*cough*....... Im happy with my slowtege..

well..hello, stick to reality, this is not a high boost capable engine. But if put some internals it will do fine 400whp.
Problem is... the srt4 has .4L more displacement that ours....we will need more power out of the slightly lower 2.0L

[Familia323]

I still dont think so.... a 400whp daily driven protege is not a reliable car no matter what you do to the internals... Your axles are gonna go, and/or your tranny is gonna fail... this car is doing good to be at 250whp for a daily driver. The car is fun dont get me wrong, but as far as high HP numbers, the car isnt worth it. If you want high hp, you are economically better off getting a different car.

[igdrasil]

I still dont think so.... a 400whp daily driven protege is not a reliable car no matter what you do to the internals... Your axles are gonna go, and/or your tranny is gonna fail... this car is doing good to be at 250whp for a daily driver. The car is fun dont get me wrong, but as far as high HP numbers, the car isnt worth it. If you want high hp, you are economically better off getting a different car.

dont tell me...like the SRT4?

Axles are going to hold, trans is going to hold. Of course, put some slicks and track abuse and something may fail, you do that on ANY car, and something is going to fail sooner or later.

Remember you are not going to push 400whp all day long. On any 4cyl car, 400whp needs attention...

Ive seen Evos and SRT4 blow their engines with less than 350whp.

[mp5typer]

This is the funniest thread ive read in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time

[Artur1976]

400hp FWD car there is nothing better than that.

[anarchistchiken]

400hp FWD car there is nothing better than that.

Except a ### hp rwd car, or a ### hp awd car.

[Emode]

or a blowjob

edit: well, maybe like seven of them



editedit: the BJs not the car

[Artur1976]

My sarcasam has not beed detected

[Emode]

i thought i picked it up pretty quick, unless $30,000 blowjobs are common

[Familia323]

dont tell me...like the SRT4?

Axles are going to hold, trans is going to hold. Of course, put some slicks and track abuse and something may fail, you do that on ANY car, and something is going to fail sooner or later.

Remember you are not going to push 400whp all day long. On any 4cyl car, 400whp needs attention...

Ive seen Evos and SRT4 blow their engines with less than 350whp.
No, I'm a fan of RWD with stronger stock engines.

[peepsalot]

dont tell me...like the SRT4?

Axles are going to hold, trans is going to hold.
Focus stripped all the teeth off one of his gears. I don't think he is at 400 yet.

[igdrasil]

Focus stripped all the teeth off one of his gears. I don't think he is at 400 yet.

that happens when gears do not engage completely and receive torque. Preobably a missshift. Thats why I say that if you put gears the trans will hold.

Ask the pros, when you are pushing a lot of whp on turbo only, the transmission will break but thats because we all want to stay on boost on the next gear and shifting becomes and issue. You better shift slow and engage correctly, you will have to spool up a bit.

If you want better times its better to use a small shot of nitrous like 35-50hp, this way you can put the gears and still not loose that power.

[Dark-one]

I might have to reconsider the stage 3 a big 50 trim will be better though after i sell my msp

[Dark-one]

I'm not a big fan of interior anyway it sits in the corner of my garage

[anarchistchiken]

Wow talk about back from the dead, lol.

[p5power]

Wow talk about back from the dead, lol.
yeah, that's what i was thinking...

[Martino617]

w0w, i read this entire Fourm!..........

[FrigginGLI]

as my fiance has said about the SRT4 " Its like a nerd that knows karate, Yeah he can kick your ass but he's still a nerd"
Good one.

[brianmcd]

FYI you're so insecure about yourself and your car you have to post about it on 10 different forums to make yourself feel better.

[Speed_Racer]

how much power is that 10 & 11sec SRT-4 making? and at what boost pressure?

[Boston5761]

everyone talks about the shitty interior but have you looked in the viper's especially the older ones......who cares its all about speed, most of the msp owners talk about stripping their cars or vast weight reductions. This car is a beast....simply put!!!

Stop Hating!! it's cheaper than a msp new and it spanked the shit out of it...

[blacksrt47]

I have given up trying to defend my srt. Everyone and their grandmother will sit there and make a joke about it. I know its not the best looking car, but bang for the buck you cant beat it(well until the mazdspeed 3 come out). I mean everyone picks on it b/c its a "neon", if you think about it, the mazdspeed protege is just a "protege" then. I like srt's and mazdaspeed. There is no reason to get into dumb arguments about them. They are both equally great cars in their respective fields. Just my 2 cents.

[brianmcd]

I like the SRT-4's as a car. People like nolimits make everyone hate the owners, though. The SRT-4 fanboy's who go around saying "teh srt-4 is fastar" kinda piss me off. It'd make me mad if someone went around all the boards saying the STi was the best car ever, too.

[noclue119]

I have given up trying to defend my srt. Everyone and their grandmother will sit there and make a joke about it. I know its not the best looking car, but bang for the buck you cant beat it(well until the mazdspeed 3 come out). I mean everyone picks on it b/c its a "neon", if you think about it, the mazdspeed protege is just a "protege" then. I like srt's and mazdaspeed. There is no reason to get into dumb arguments about them. They are both equally great cars in their respective fields. Just my 2 cents.

^ i think u are gay... I'm hating you cuz u got rid of ur MP3.... heheh j/k kevin

[blacksrt47]

lol thanks ying. I know what yall are saying there are some people like that. But you have to understand there are just as many people who down talk the srt for no reason. I am on an srt forum and we always have links to sites where people are douches about srt. There was a recent one at the rsx forums. So I understand where you are coming from, just understand where some srt guys are coming from.

[InFlames]

srt >*






































































ex -srt owner ;)

[nvmsp]

Alot of people hate on all our cars. Srt,Msp,Wrx, Rsx,Gti,Jetta 1.8 and who can forget the Civic. All cars that can be fast just like any car that has wheels on it. To much Hatorade is being consumed. I've been one of the haters and so have most of all of you.

Any car can be as fast as any car. The SRT is easily capable of being faster than a protege but who doesnt already know this??? Look at what u get from the factory(Srt-4). Look at what the MSP got from the factory. We require alot more work to just be able to beat a Srt in it's stock form. Or just turn the boost up.


It's just about the look on the SRT, Sti, GTO guys faces when a protege is pulling on u !

I'll never forget racing that 05 Srt-4 who challenged me thinking he was faster. HaHaHa time to start modding stock Srt :) .

[nvmsp]

508whp

27lbs to redline

60'-----1.733
1/8---7.087@101.79
1/4---10.893@129.30


Thats slowwwwwww. Just kidding, damn thats fast. (thumb)

[Speed_Racer]

wow. thats not bad at all. I really wasn't exspecting so much at that boost pressure. and you said both those car (if there not the same car) use the stg3 turbo.

[Donas64]

Just read this whole thread. Can't say anything that has not bee nsiad bt as the owner of a bone stock protege I can say this:

Given the choice between an SRT4 and an MSP, despite the Protege being the better handler and much nicer looking as well as an overall classier vehicel, I'd take the SRT4. I don't think it looks bad at all and it's a serious little car for the cash.

[Maxx Mazda]

I'll just go ahead and say it... It's still a neon.

[II-Savy]

It's the interior that kills it for me. Thin crappy plastic everywhere. But I would love to have that 2.4 turbo in my car. absolutly.

[SilverBulletES]

It's ugly-- but the new one's going to be even uglier. I've seen enough of those Calibers driving around here to know there's no body kit to improve on that.

I'm not hatin' -- I'm glad there are absurdly fast cars out here. I just need 60 more horses at the wheels for mine while keeping decent gas mileage and I'm pretty sure it'll feel like I'm smoking hash with Ganesha himself.

[Metal MP5]

i dont know why but i just read this whole thread lol

one comment about Focus' blown transmission ... the tranny was fully engaged in 3rd when it happened. it started accellerating and he stripped the gear. I think the garage that reinstalled his transmission put the wrong kind of oil in

the tranny survived close to 200 1/4 mile passes (if not more) at 275whp to 325whp on MT slicks ...... if you know how to drive your car, your tranny should last

[yashooa]

Like the MSP is build any better. At least the engine in the SRT can handle more than 10psi. I think that the pos SRT has us beat even in the reliablility depertmant.
103k miles here most of it at 12-15PSI daily.
I am just now upgrading just about everything but I was very happy with the car. The one glaring fault the MSP has is the poorly designed LSD.
It works well but the ring gear has a habit of coming loose from the body of the diff.
Outside of the diff breaking after 103k miles it has been absolutely perfect.

[Rotary_Powered]

Should've gone with the 1.6 mazda, I hear it can take 22 PSI of boost and smile. the FSDE rods seems to glass. :( Sad but after talking with a few members it seems that the 1.6 is a better platform for us...

[avarela86]

True about the 1.6, depends about what numbers you are looking for.

My 2 cents is that it is OK on the exterior dead interior and amazing under the hood and the tranny. But im happy with what I got, very happy. It's the fact that im 762 of 1500. And probably less are around...we are a rare race....specially the turbo ones.

[joka1]

my car handled 15 psi daily for abt 2 yrs, then i bumped it up to 22-25 psi and it lasted 3 months. (it was a fun ass 3 months btw)

btw i have driven in a stage 3 srt-4 and it is fast, very fast!! in a straight line (that is all i rode in it so no inult intended)