Where to go from here...

[mazdaowner123]

Ok, so I need some advice. I'm not sure exactly where I want to go with my car from here. Right now the mods I have are in my sig, nothing much power wise. I want to set the car up for track days (road course, not going straight), but since our cars have such weak engines/diffs that'd mean forged internals and a quaife. If I did that, then I'd probably be looking for a setup that would yeild ~300whp. The question is, would it be worth it? 300whp is a lot of wheelspin. First becomes useless, as does second. Third would probably spin some, too. So, instead of doing all of that, I could take the money and start saving for an evo or sti. I wouldn't have the wheelspin issues, I'd get AWD, and it'd have a lot more potential. The downside would be that it'd be about 2 years or more until I could make that happen. What do you guys think? Should I start going all out, or should I start saving for something else to better suit my needs? Would 300whp be worth it in a fwd car? I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions.

~brian

[MSP #167]

well if your looking to do road course and not draging it do you really need 300hp? Like you said 1st, 2nd and maybe even third will be useless and aren't those the gears your in most of the time while on the road course.

Forget evo, get a newer 240sx and make it a road course machine, those cars handle great i used to have a s13, and with minor mods such as springs and shocks/struts they handle great.

You can pick one up pretty cheap and swap a sr20 into it and you'll be at like 180hp and with minor mods and raising the boost they can be made really fast, and it will be perfect for what your looking to do.

RWD will be better than awd in the long run.

[CasopoliS]

Ok, so I need some advice. I'm not sure exactly where I want to go with my car from here. Right now the mods I have are in my sig, nothing much power wise. I want to set the car up for track days (road course, not going straight), but since our cars have such weak engines/diffs that'd mean forged internals and a quaife. If I did that, then I'd probably be looking for a setup that would yeild ~300whp. The question is, would it be worth it? 300whp is a lot of wheelspin. First becomes useless, as does second. Third would probably spin some, too. So, instead of doing all of that, I could take the money and start saving for an evo or sti. I wouldn't have the wheelspin issues, I'd get AWD, and it'd have a lot more potential. The downside would be that it'd be about 2 years or more until I could make that happen. What do you guys think? Should I start going all out, or should I start saving for something else to better suit my needs? Would 300whp be worth it in a fwd car? I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions.

~brian

Well you kinda answered your own questions with the pros and cons listed. I have heard the EVO to pain on maintenance...correct me if I am wrong. I do not know anything about an STI, but my buddies WRX is a solid car. Yes FWD will keep you limted to 300 FWHP.... you would just have to learn to control the power. I think the MSP will still be driveable if you control the power. Remember, you can always lower boost as well.
Ok.... I think all options are good. And as most people will tell you.... the choice is up to you. You can slowly build now as $ comes..... or you can save $ as it come and one day get a car with more potential. Remember, you will still have to put $ into whatever you buy. My 2 Abe Lincoln's.

[122 Vega]

Brian, you will find out quickly that there is more to road racing than power. In fact, you will create more problems with that much power than you would racing at stock power levels. Autocrossing is much harder on a drivetrain than road racing is. If you are slamming gears on the track you won't last long. I love to see the drag racers come out for a track day and break stuff. With your setup already, I bet your car would be pretty well set with 200-225 whp which is easy to get with these cars. Put the extra money in safety equipment, seats especially, another set of wheels with R-compunds and necessary track day items such as a collapsable awning/tent, a nice aluminum jack, extra plugs, lugnuts, video system and tons of water. Maybe an AWR radiator and a bigger intercooler could be on the list too, but you likely need the ic to get to that power lever consistently anyways.

If you really want out of your MSP, get a Lotus. You are young without kids, who needs a back seat? Or get a BMW M3. Or you could get a used Viper GTS for under $45,000. Why waste time and money with an Evo or an Sti? They are not the greatest cars in the world like everyone on this board seems to think. Buy a Porsche 911 or 93 RX7 r1 for a fun track car. You could go on eBay and get a dedicated SCCA IT race car for the same amount of money you'd spend getting the MSP to 300 whp, which likely wouldn't be usable in this car anyways.

Britt

[FSDET]

Brian, you will find out quickly that there is more to road racing than power. In fact, you will create more problems with that much power than you would racing at stock power levels. Autocrossing is much harder on a drivetrain than road racing is. If you are slamming gears on the track you won't last long. I love to see the drag racers come out for a track day and break stuff. With your setup already, I bet your car would be pretty well set with 200-225 whp which is easy to get with these cars. Put the extra money in safety equipment, seats especially, another set of wheels with R-compunds and necessary track day items such as a collapsable awning/tent, a nice aluminum jack, extra plugs, lugnuts, video system and tons of water. Maybe an AWR radiator and a bigger intercooler could be on the list too, but you likely need the ic to get to that power lever consistently anyways.

If you really want out of your MSP, get a Lotus. You are young without kids, who needs a back seat? Or get a BMW M3. Or you could get a used Viper GTS for under $45,000. Why waste time and money with an Evo or an Sti? They are not the greatest cars in the world like everyone on this board seems to think. Buy a Porsche 911 or 93 RX7 r1 for a fun track car. You could go on eBay and get a dedicated SCCA IT race car for the same amount of money you'd spend getting the MSP to 300 whp, which likely wouldn't be usable in this car anyways.

Britt
good post except for the viper GTS lol

[mazdaowner123]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Britt: I agree with everything you said, especially about power not being the key to road racing. The thing is, I'm scared of my engine blowing up even at stock boost with the msp under track conditions. At VIR I was hitting 6.5k-7k in 4th gear at WOT twice per lap. I was praying each time. So, to make the car really track ready, I think I'd need forged internals so the car won't blow up. If I do that, then it'd be a waste to not make some power with it. I also agree that 300whp probably wouldn't be very usable/practical. Tonight I think I'm going to sit down and make a list of long term goals, and work out each scenario.

Thanks.

~brian

[daedalus]

I am in the same situation as you. My car is going to be for a road course, not drag. In fact, I refuse to drop my clutch at all. The last thing I need now is a blown diff and tranny that mazda can fuck me on.

Anyway... I have gone the forged route, but I am keeping the stock turbo for now. Like you said, 300whp becomes unusable. (Unless you love boosting on the highway!) 250 is a nice improvement over stock, and remains drivable. Of course, with any increase in power on a FWD car, you will have to relearn to drive your car quickly to avoid wheelspin, etc. Let say you did upgrade the trubo, another option is that even though you have a potential for 300whp you can allways run a low boost setting for certain applications and jump it up for other times. The beauty of EBC!

I dont know if this helps at all, I just thought I might have some ideas since we essentially are building our cars for the same purpose.

And on the STI/EVO thing. No. You can spend money bulletproofing your car, or spend money getting another car with a whole new bunch of problems that need to be sorted (tranny, clutch, transfer case) on the evo and sti. Just my opinion.

[mazdaowner123]

Yeah, I never launch my car. And speaking of evo/sti problems, it seems like their problems mostly stem from user stupidity. If I were to get an awd turbo car, I wouldn't ever launch it. I don't launch the msp now, and with awd you're going to break stuff. Terry from spool didn't have any problems with his 300whp evo, and he only launched it once at the track.

I still don't know what I'm gonna do in the long run. I was thinking if I'm going to stick with the msp, I'd use an avc-r for gear limited boost to deal with lower gear wheelspin.

But hey daedalus, hit me up on aim sometime if you get a chance. Seems like we're going for the same thing so I'd love to chat a bit. My screen name is ihatebrianmcd.
~brian


I am in the same situation as you. My car is going to be for a road course, not drag. In fact, I refuse to drop my clutch at all. The last thing I need now is a blown diff and tranny that mazda can fuck me on.

Anyway... I have gone the forged route, but I am keeping the stock turbo for now. Like you said, 300whp becomes unusable. (Unless you love boosting on the highway!) 250 is a nice improvement over stock, and remains drivable. Of course, with any increase in power on a FWD car, you will have to relearn to drive your car quickly to avoid wheelspin, etc. Let say you did upgrade the trubo, another option is that even though you have a potential for 300whp you can allways run a low boost setting for certain applications and jump it up for other times. The beauty of EBC!

I dont know if this helps at all, I just thought I might have some ideas since we essentially are building our cars for the same purpose.

And on the STI/EVO thing. No. You can spend money bulletproofing your car, or spend money getting another car with a whole new bunch of problems that need to be sorted (tranny, clutch, transfer case) on the evo and sti. Just my opinion.

[122 Vega]

If you are at 7k, you are beyond the peak power of the car anyways. I would do three things regarding this: Go to a 17" wheels with larger overall diameter, get the 4.88 gear set from SRMotorsports, and get a set of Sunbelt cam gears. The cams are a bit restrictive on the top end. The FMIC would help too.

Other things I would consider, decrease weight. Seats, wheels, carbon hood (painted of course) and pull the sub box for track days.

Engine management will help the top end as well.

But remember, the more mods you have, the less reliable your car is. Some will no doubt say this is not true, but they are the minority So if you are worried about the car blowing up so you don't have a car to go to school the next day, just buy a $200 beater. I would prefer not to fix something that isn't broken. Run the motor until it goes, just remember to put in the clutch when the motor blows.

Britt

[mazdaowner123]

Yeah, my instructor wouldn't let me shift into 5th unless I hit the rev limiter in 4th :(. The mods you've listed do sound like a good idea though. I plan to do a lot of the weight reduction if I keep the car (especially seats, damn these stockers suck.) I guess now it's just up to me to think about everything. You've given me some good advice though, I appreciate it.

~brian


If you are at 7k, you are beyond the peak power of the car anyways. I would do three things regarding this: Go to a 17" wheels with larger overall diameter, get the 4.88 gear set from SRMotorsports, and get a set of Sunbelt cam gears. The cams are a bit restrictive on the top end. The FMIC would help too.

Other things I would consider, decrease weight. Seats, wheels, carbon hood (painted of course) and pull the sub box for track days.

Engine management will help the top end as well.

But remember, the more mods you have, the less reliable your car is. Some will no doubt say this is not true, but they are the minority So if you are worried about the car blowing up so you don't have a car to go to school the next day, just buy a $200 beater. I would prefer not to fix something that isn't broken. Run the motor until it goes, just remember to put in the clutch when the motor blows.

Britt