The Ultimate Debate!!!!!

[tgv121281]

Ok, I know it's probably been beaten to death, and please don't give me too much slack for this, but which is the best way to go for Forced Induction???
Turbo or Super.....

I'm not gonna post a poll b/c thats just gonna get lame...REather, I'd love to hear your answers AND more importantly WHY.

Here's where I stand, and keep in mind, I'm a newbie(one of the reasons I'm starting this) looking for some info. I dont expect for anyone to be able to TELL me, which to go with...but I do expect to learn quite a bit.

I know the difference between the 2(how they are driven, pulley vs. exhaust), I know the difference in power band(super= always on, turbo=spool up), and I know the difference in dialing in boost(changing pulleys vs. boost controller).....There's a few other things that I understand pretty well...but thats the most of it...

And from what I can tell I'm leaning towards Superchraging b/c it's power on demand...and I figure I can add on some NOS later if needed.......Figuring I can get the advantage off the line and then juice it to keep the advantage once the other cars turbo kicks in.....However, the debate continues b/c the 3 is FWD, meaning that I'm gonna lose lots of time/traction off the line w/ the power....So I guess I should say that I'm really 50/50 on it, but would rather go Supercharger to take advantage of the on demand power....IF the rest of the negatives can be overcome.....

I know that most of the Import scene is dedicated to Turbo, and the domestics really stick w/ super....But I'm thinking a S/C would be the way to go...that said, "Let's get it on"!!!!!!!!!!!

[SNike05]

And from what I can tell I'm leaning towards Superchraging b/c it's power on demand...and I figure I can add on some NOS later if needed.......Figuring I can get the advantage off the line and then juice it to keep the advantage once the other cars turbo kicks in

Just like yourself I don't know enough to put in any legitimate argument. I don't have either nor do I prefer one over the other but that statement doesn't sound right to me. Lets see what others have to say.

[saskmazdaman11]

I figure use the turbo, because that exhaust is leaving the engine anyways, might as well use the energy. Turbo development has also come along from what I have seen, so lag and some disadvantages of turbos have been decreased. I don't know, the supercharger kinda seems like a catch 22. Use the power of the engine to increase the power of the engine. Turbos aren't getting something for free, but the parasitic power loss of the supercharger just sits wrong with me. And like you said, the tuner world is geared towards the turbo, so when in Rome....

[ZeroAccess]

Turbo = Adjustability, Free Power (comes from exhaust)
Supercharger = More Reliable Generally, Uses Engine to turn belts to turn compressor to add HP back into the car. Some people complain about losing power before gaining it.

Turbo's normally make more power or are able to produce more power without being updated SO much
Superchargers normally make a lot of power all over the powerband and need pulley's replaced to increase or decrease power

Expect to get a lot of heated debates over this the best way to gain knowledge would be look at Honda's Jackson Racing,Vortech Superchargers and compare them to the Turbo vehicles. Since the only Supercharger for the Mazda Protege is still in beta testing (almost done).

[M3 5MT]

I've always figured that a supercharger was not a good idea in a low-low-end torque four cylinder car. They work well in american big block V8's because the gain in power is extremely offset by the loss. I dont think our VVT will make up for the initial powerloss caused by a supercharger. Go Turbo.

[saskmazdaman11]

Do blowers and superchargers go with american muscle like chips and salsa? You bet, but check out

http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_twinturbo.cfm

A small block chevy with twin turbos and 15 psi of boost.

I think I can shoe horn it in the 3 and run 1000 hp through a transaxle.

[tgv121281]

Zero & Sask-That makes some sense, I just wish I could get a real idea of how much power you lose...b/c I just cant get over the idea of having to wait for a turbo to spool....and I hear what you're saying about designs gettin better and better....but, the best design cant make it just go away right?

Another question, I've heard that alot of people use staged NOS at lower rpm's and time it so that the NOS is only there till the turbo spools then its gone, the turbo gives you the boost and poof no lag....Questions on this...1-is this a real scenario or a dream, 2-possible on our cars??, 3-if you use NOS like this, can you/should you still use it after the turbo is going???

Also, this may be a REAL lame question, but from what I can see the superchrager is always making power....and the turbo needs time to spool..but what happens after it spools up??? Is it then continuous power until you basically stop and then the process starts again??? Or is it basically every time you let off the throttle(shifting gears, etc...) it'll take some time to spool up???? AND if it does take time even after shifting gears, its alot less time then if you were stopped, like at a light right??? Just trying to get an idea.....

[anarchistchiken]

the gain in power is extremely offset by the loss.

What???

I like superchargers myself because it eliminats the risk of boost spikes that can blow engines. Centrifigul blowers are also a lot easier on the tranny of the car because they give a more gradual increase in power (psi rises with the RPM) as opposed to the turbo, where the thing spools up and BAM, instant power. It's a bigger shock to the tranny and the engine. The biggest problem for mazda car's when drag racing has always been the transmission more than the engine, and unless you 3 guys have a wildly upgraded transmission, I wouldn't even think about running a combination of turbo or supercharger with nitrous (not NOS, NOS is a company, Nitrous Oxide Systems) because to run that combo and get the power off the line you're talking about, you would have to be running some big, VERY sticky tires. High end drag radials at least, possibly slicks, to take advantage of that power. And the problem with running slicks with a high powered engine is that the power has to go through the transmission. And when the tires aren't spinning, the power the engine is making is going to the transmission. So no wheels spin + lots of power = LOTS of strain on the transmission.

[anarchistchiken]

Also, this may be a REAL lame question, but from what I can see the superchrager is always making power....and the turbo needs time to spool..but what happens after it spools up??? Is it then continuous power until you basically stop and then the process starts again??? Or is it basically every time you let off the throttle(shifting gears, etc...) it'll take some time to spool up???? AND if it does take time even after shifting gears, its alot less time then if you were stopped, like at a light right??? Just trying to get an idea.....


Think of it this way; a turbo is driven by the exhaust gasses passing through the engine, so the more exhaust leaving your engine (more fuel and air going in, more open throttle) the more the turbo is gonna spool. So when you have no exhaust leaving the engine (no throttle) then the turbo wont spool. When you're cruising, the turbo will spool just a little, depending on what RPM you're at. And at WOT, it's gonna be spooling a lot. Once you're rpms are high enough and you're WOT, then you will begin making positive pressure (boost). But you can let off the throttle, exhaust gasses will stop flowing, and the turbo will wind down again. You see what I'm sayin?

[tgv121281]

I think so, if I'm understanding than the example i gave below is pretty much right....If you're taking off from the light...Biggest Lag, If you're between shifts-little lag....
Also, I do plan on taking it to the track, but this will be mostly a daily driver....Weekday cruising, Weekend warrior.....type of thing....So I dont think I'm gonna have that much power going in there...but I do understand what you're saying...I plan to update the internals and the transmission(at least clutch/flywheel)....think that'll be enough???

So is anyone working on a S/C fo r the 3's???

[mobomelter]

I just wish I could get a real idea of how much power you lose...b/c I just cant get over the idea of having to wait for a turbo to spool....

from what i've picked up from reading about turbos, is that if the right turbo is paired with the right engine lag is pretty much eliminated. in your line of thinking, you could buy a sti or evo and still have lag which is not the case. sure they might lag a tiny bit but once again from what i've read you don't notice it.

[anarchistchiken]

I think so, if I'm understanding than the example i gave below is pretty much right....If you're taking off from the light...Biggest Lag, If you're between shifts-little lag....
Also, I do plan on taking it to the track, but this will be mostly a daily driver....Weekday cruising, Weekend warrior.....type of thing....So I dont think I'm gonna have that much power going in there...but I do understand what you're saying...I plan to update the internals and the transmission(at least clutch/flywheel)....think that'll be enough???

So is anyone working on a S/C fo r the 3's???


Matty was talking about developing one for the 2.3 L, but I'm not sure if he's still doing that. Upgrading the internals is good, and a clutch and flywheels are absolute must haves for any FI application. But the clutch and flywheels aren't the parts that shatter. It's the shift forks, half shafts, etc that break. I'm not saying the tranny is extrememly fragile. I mean there are a few proteges out there that are running over 300 WHP with stock transmission (-clutch and flywheels of course) and they do ok. But with sticky tires, SC, and nitrous, I think you'd have more trouble than them.

p.s. Most people consider superchargers better for cars that see more time on the street than the track. They're just more predictable and easier to control/service than turbos.

[Yay-Boost]

Superchargers take eninge power to spin up so your engine is working harder to make the same WHP as a turbo. People with v engines like superchargers more because you can run one supercharger. Where you would need a turbo for each cylinder bank.

[tgv121281]

Let me ask you guys this....when you say the right rubo w/ the right engine....you mean size right?? Bigger the turbo, bigger the lag if the engine is too small??

Also, would you say that its possible to match up the right turbo, and tune it properly so that you are getting power throughout the band...similiar to a S/C??

Also, anarc....thanks for giving some more detail about the tranny....question, about the part where you said that stickies, s/c & nitrous could be a problem...do you mean like a big shot of nitrous, b/c if I got the s/c I wouldnt shoot the nitrous till well after coming off the line...(actually it'd be pretty much at the end of the run).....If I got a t/c I'd want to use the n2o staged to spool up faster...and then maybe a shot at the end of the run too...But no one really answered so I dont know if I can do that...

SO...
-would the tranny problem you mentioned still be there if I ran a s/c and n2o at the END of the run??

-would the tranny problem still be there if I ran a t/c and STAGED n2o just to help spool up

-Can I run staged n2o, t/c, and then another shot of n2o towards the end of the run???

[anarchistchiken]

-would the tranny problem you mentioned still be there if I ran a s/c and n2o at the END of the run??

-would the tranny problem still be there if I ran a t/c and STAGED n2o just to help spool up

-Can I run staged n2o, t/c, and then another shot of n2o towards the end of the run???

Nah then you'll be fine. It was just the s/c n2o off the line combo that had me concerned, but any of those combos should be fine. The turbo with n2o at the mid-end of the run will be ok as long as you're not running too much boost and you have forged internals. But if you're already making 400whp and then you spray a 100 shot, there could be problems!(laugh)

[mobomelter]

if you are going to run a mostly street car i wouldn't bother with n2o.

[tgv121281]

Thanks.....thats a huge help...so anybody else have any opinions...I thought this would be a heated debate by now...I appreciate the info..but its getting lonely in here...

Momo-you're right...my idea is to have a streetable car...but when I need to kick it in have the n2o on demand to really knock some socks off...
Thats why I really want a s/c.....then when I need to really make a hard run I can just use the juice at the end...Or also have a t/c...so I can dial the boost in nice and low...and when I'm gonna run...dial up the boost, activate the staged n2o, and then finish it off with another shot at the end if I really need...

Here's another question...Can staged n2o be turned on and off like a reg. shot of n2o??? Basically use the example above w/ the t/c. Can I run low boost NO n2o...and when I want to activate the staged n2o???? Also, for the setup I mentioned....could this be done w/ 1 setup??? I'm thinking I would need 1 setup/bottle for the staged n2o early on to help spool, and another setup/bottle for whatever shot I'd want to do at the end of the run...any comments, suggests etc...

[mobomelter]

well i think first thing you need to address before going after all this FI is our motor/wheel hop issue.

[tgv121281]

You're right about that..I'm trying to plan ahead tho...Hard to build a car w/out an idea of what the finished product will be....With a plan...than you have to overcome obstacles to get where you want...If you just build around the obstacles..then you end up with either 1-what everyone else has, or 2- nowhere near what you wanted....At least thats the way I see....And this is the same principle I've applied to other projects(not cars) I've undertaken...

[M3 5MT]

What???

my bad, i worded that wrong, the power gain offsets the loss...you knew what i meant.

[PeteyBoy3K]

My impression was always this: Superchargers and turbochargers are like VVT: they can be tuned to either flatten the power band or really make the preferred power band spike... or you can get an more complex and really expensive system to do both. However, since most people like engines that don't cost 50% of the car, everyone makes do with the simplistic systems.

It was always my impression that Supers were always a bit easier to configure but harder to install: Basically you're just putting a fan on the engine and not even getting a restriction on exhaust gasses... but it's harder to shoehorn one into most engine compartments because you're dealing with the fact that you have to get a belt to drive a pulley on a blower on a narrow axis... Thus, most supers I have ever heard of are right on top of the engine like a power steering pump, and there might not be enough room to wedge one into most compact cars. Also, You are putting another thing that provides resistance on your belt. Thus even though you get no boost-response issues, the turbo will always produce more power once it get's going.

Turbo's I always thought were a bit more elegant because you are using exhaust gasses to power the turbine. The resistance doesn't equate to that of a blower-on-a-belt, so you can get more power from turbos. They are also easier to stick on an engine because you're basically just bolting something on in the empty space around the exhast manifold.. It allows for a wider range of positions and orientations since it's not being restricted by needing to be driven by an engine belt: an important consideration in cramped compact engine compartments. Otherwise, they get really hot and the bearing undergoes a lot of stress and needs constant oil... so you're often running a lot more hoses and pipes and maybe a few intercooler lines. Thus they are prone to blow up or worse, blow your engine if you tinker too much.

Otherwise, in both systems you can pretty much designate which part of the power band you want your boost. If you don't want the traditional lags, you get a smaller super/turbo so there is less resistance and/or you use a smaller pulley or configure the wastegate to give more PSI sooner... But then when the engine starts revving higher, the super/turbo won't produce as much boost as a bigger turbo/super would have.

It seems most racers/tuners are hanging out near the redline of the engine anyways.. so they get and configure a turbo/super to give a lot of power in the 4-7000 range and ignore the initial wait while the big turbo spins up or the big supers low-end resistance (or plunge when the optional clutch kicks in)

Once again it's a necessary expense thing.. Most turbos and supers are regulated by simple pressure switches and pulleys respectively. These are uncomplicated and least likely to fail and cause something to pop. They can be dropped onto a variety of different engines without much more tweaking, and you can tinker with the pressure switches and pulleys to a limited extent for the range that suits you. You could set up all sorts of computer controlled actuators to try and make it so there is a boost-curve perfectly that matches your engine curve, but then you're dealing with a lot more testing and R&D to get the computer to match perfectly with the behavior and needs of the engine. It would at that point just be cheaper to buy a car with a v-6 or a v-8.

Let me ask you guys this....when you say the right rubo w/ the right engine....you mean size right?? Bigger the turbo, bigger the lag if the engine is too small??

I think so, bigger also means more boost when it counts... but smaller turbos will be able to give your low end a nice push where bigger turbos would just be bogging it down getting up to speed. There is also different turbine design that responds differently, but the trade off is generally "do I want more boost or do I want better boost response".

Also, would you say that its possible to match up the right turbo, and tune it properly so that you are getting power throughout the band...similiar to a S/C??

Yes, but any turbo designed for really good boost response (spin up quickly, minimize the wait) won't be as punchy when the engine really hits its sweet spot. Otherwise, you can fit in a really bigass turbo because you can pretty much run pipes to whichever part of the engine compartment has the most space. The super you have to find room for the blower AND get the drive belts to it without any twisting/rubbing. But there will still be concerns about whether you want it to be pushing really hard near the redline (jeckyl/hyde) or giving an nice boost to low-end torque

[RyanJayG]

if you are going to do a full on turbo vs. supercharger debate, then you need to break it down into the different types of SC. personally, I think a Turbo is better then a centerfugal type SC on the street or drag, but a Roots or Lysholm(twin screw) type SC would be better on the street than a turbo... but again, opinions will differ. but i've driven different cars with all these different types of FI, and I still choose turbo today.

[Yay-Boost]

Big turbo or s/c on a small 4cyl sucks for the street. First you have to lower the compression to prevent detonation then you have to wait until the RPM's are up before they hit. When your not in boost the car is worse than a non turbo because of the lowered compression ratio. You can have a 350 hp car that feels like a damn Kia around town. A shot of n20 at low RPM's might help if you had a really strong engine. I think most people just end up abusing their clutch to get rid of lag when having fun.

[tgv121281]

Wow starting to really get into now...awesome...
Like I said, I plan on upgrading the internals before going either way to be on the safe side...

But I see what you mean by the tradeoff...either quick response, or huge kick....

(Turbo)
MY choice would be to have a little more on the low end(DEF not LESS as was mentioned when you have a large turbo),and MOST of the addit. power in the mid range....then to finish it off I'd get a shot of n2o for whenever I really need it..(limited use)...I really wouldnt want to go w/ staged n2o and a large turbo...b/c I wouldnt want to use the n2o constantly on the streets and all, and I would have to b/c I really couldnt deal w/ the car being slower on the low end...

(Super)
My choice here would be to get the most power I could out of the s/c...so its hitting through-out the band, and this way I could have the power at low-end right through to high end...(so that there's only gains, no losses)...then throw in a shot of n2o for when I need to....

But question is this....and i know there's no def. answer b/c there's so many diff scenarios...BUT which way is better...I mean if there was a t/c in a 3, and a t/c in a 3 and they went at it...Who'd win???....Lets say same car...same everything...NO n2o, just FI........Wouldnt it be really tight??? I'm visualizing the S/C car taking the lead.(a fairly significant lead) for 1/3 of the run, but then the T/C car kicking it in later in the run making it neck & neck for the 2/3, and really I'm seeing it coming down to driving ability for the last 3/3 of the run...AGAIN considering no n2o....and failry similiar boost levels....Is this WAY off, or is this not too far......Basically, I'm trying to get an idea of whether or not either of them well completely get their asses kicked by the other....And I knOW there's an endless list of variables that can seriously affect the outcome of this scenario but I'm just trying to get a better idea in a real life situation...


PS-Thanks to EVERYONE thats posting...this is great!

PPS-Ryan, feel free to get even deeper into the S/C.....dont hold back on us!

[Super Matty P]

hmm....should i jump in on this or not.....

[tgv121281]

Yesssss Please!!!

[Super Matty P]

there's some misinformation and general assumptions being thrown around here. I can break it down very simply for you..

all of my daily driven cars are supercharged.....all of my race cars are turbo'd.....wanna guess why?

secondly, superchargers are NOT "always on". If that is the case then so are turbochargers. Both are always spinning. The difference is that with a supercharger once your bypass closes you have instant boost based on your rpm's whereas a turbo starts from 0 and builds up.

superchargers= less maintaince with less overall peak power

turbochargers = more maintaince, more power, more risk

superchargers = dont feel like boost rather larger engines

turbocharers = 4cyl grunt and then V8 pull

superchargers = much lower intake temps with less detonation risks often not needing interooling

turbochargers = mandatory intercooling with higher temps and risk of detonation

superchargers (centrifugal like mine) = not a lot of torque increase...all mid-range + horsepower.

turbochargers = more torque down low but acceleration seems to fall off after full boost is reached.

superchargers = no boost spikes....ever

turbochargers = boost creep/spikes constant threat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

thats some pro's and cons of each. These are facts. Not opinions. I've been looking into developing a supercharger for the 2.0L and 2.3L MAzda3 engines. It would go against a fewof my rules...#1. it would be rather expensive as I'd have to have my own custom intake manifolds made for this application. #2. It would use an eaton supercharger that I'm not a fan of.

Based on what I've seen I'd buy the HiBoost 2.3L kit and be done with it. Juan is the man and can offer you turbo power much sooner and cheaper than I could make a supercharger to compete.

[tgv121281]

Wow, appreciate the info...

I guess I'm gonna get stuck with having to use staged n2o to eliminate the lag....not sure how "daily driving" is gonna be tho....dont want to be running n2o all the time...and dont want to be feeling slower in the lowend.....Anybody know if the cosworth intake mani would be a good addon for f/i applications...AND if you can add n2o with the intake...I'm assuming it shouldnt be an issue BUT you never know...

I'm not good w/ t/c sizes...can anyone shed some light on the highboost kit...(I know Juan would be the best source but he's pretty busy, and I want to keep him that way).....and maybe give an idea of what kind of lag to expect..size has alot to do with that right???

[Super Matty P]

dude you are WAY too concerned with lag. It's a non-issue...really. Juan uses vf-series turbo's from the WRX and they are very nice turbo's. All this talk of "staged nitrous" is just overkill. You're going to be buying yourself an engine promptly if you try to do this.

Just buy the hiboost kit and if it needs any help in the acceleration department buy yourself a nice ultralight flywheel.

[tgv121281]

matty, thats what I needed and wanted to know....Iguess I was just listening to too many people talk about it and it seemed like a huge problem...then again maybe they just put a piece of crap together...

Will a flywheel really do that big of a diff?????...I really appreciate the info...thanks!!!!

[tgv121281]

Wait...okok, forget the nitrous...what about that intake mani??? useless for F/I or still something worth while??? I hear its a great upgrade for N/A....any input?

[Super Matty P]

what intake manifold?? is there some secret underground of 3S parts that I don't know about?? Last I heard there were very few parts available for the 2.3L duratec....an Intake manifold is a moderate gain depending on a few factors. I would think your money would be better invested by paying your car down more before setting it aside for mods that don't exsist yet.

Give it some time....there will be plenty of neat stuff for that engine.

[tgv121281]

Umm, dont mean to go back and forth, and being new to this I really appreciate all the input/advice I can get(as stated many times before), but www.corksport.com has the intake mani for sale.....And its been talked about quite a bit in these forums...PS-my car is pretty much paid off already....Thats the 1st place I dumped my money(I do finance for a living!)...but thanks ne-way

[chkmgnt58]

alright, i dont usually jump into these conversations, but having driven a turbo car (my msp) and a supercharged car (dad's old m-b slk), i can say for sure that you dont want to to s/c. they are nice, and the slk pulled great from start to finish, with a almost flat powerband. however, developing a s/c for the 2.3 would cost you wayyy too much. juan's kit will spool quickly, and you'll never deal with turbo lag. and any talk of using nitrous is just crazy, thats the quickest way to blow your engine up. i respect the s/c proteges, but realistically, if you're talking about serious power capability, turbo is the way to go. and using a boost controller and ems system, you can quickly change between your daily driving setup and a track setup with low/high boost. just my .02

[Super Matty P]

corksport has no mention of an intake manifold for a mazda 3. They were talking about making one for the 2.0L protege....totally different engines.

chkmgnt, I respect that opinion since you've driven both types of vehicles but you really need to compare apples to apples. Drive a turbocharged protege and a supercharged protege and you'll get a much better comparo. I know we're talking about mazda 3's here but this is as close as we can get. Also, the mercedes you drove used a totally different blower type than what I use.

[tgv121281]

http://corksport.com/main.php3?primNavIndex=0&mainURL=%2Fstore%2Findex.php3%3Fcat%3D293623

Try this link.....

Again, NOT trying to go toe 2 toe....I respect you and your advice....just showing you that I'm not insane..These guys specialize for Ford, I know that....but it's listed as being for the Mazda3 2.3l duratec engine...

[Super Matty P]

ah, I never saw that I looked around the mazda3 section and never saw that....it may make some power but worth $700?? probably not. Wait and see if they post any dyno's stock for stock.

[chkmgnt58]

true true matty, unfortunately no one around here has a s/c on thiers. i'd love to drive em. but doesnt change the point that for this guy, and whats he's talking about, a s/c and nitrous is gonna cost him alot and end up killing his engine. but hey, he could be a pioneer, theres gotta be a first for everything.

[tgv121281]

Well, I don tthink I have the ability to exactly be a pioneer yet...I'm just trying to choose a direction to go with my car...

And chances are I will get the hiboost kit...I've been reading up on it since the news came out...but I wanted to really dig into my options...Espescially now that I'm hearing there's virtually no lag...

ANd I appreciate all your opinions and warnings about n2o....BUT, I still gotta say that there's gotta be a safe way of using nitrous...staged or shot. I've heard all the horror stories, but I've also heard alot of really irresponsible ways of using it..... I mean are you guys saying that under all the right safeguards n2o will destroy your car regardless??? Or are you sayign thats is very easy to abuse/incorrectly run it and ruin your engine? B/c if its the latter then I agree 100%. But in that case anything you do to your car falls pretty much into the same category...Imagine the compications using s/c or t/c incorrectly or abusing it...same results are possible no??

Not trying to win this arguement...just seems very 1-sided about the n2o.....I'm not a nitrous freak or anything...as I stated it'd be pretty much just for the most extreme of circumstances, which would be very rare...

My goal is to basically have a setup where the car is faster than stock(or at least as fast) even with minimal boost dialed in(either t/c or s/c)...BUT has the ability to be alot faster once its dialed in for that.....So again...normal or a little faster for day to day home/work trips....alot faster for whenevr neccessary....and the n2o is only to supplement on the most rarest of occassions....not to be running around with t/c or s/c and juicing from light to light every night.....Seems like a sincere idea..so long as precaution is used, internals are upgraded to handle it, maintained properly, and of course not abused...

But again, I may be dreaming...if so then just say so and tell me why please...at least I can learn some more about this.....I've heard some opinions and warnings which I appreciate and will heed the advice, but would like maybe a more technical explaination so I can better understand what will/wont work, whats fact/fiction, and so on. Remember I'm basing these things on what I know, and what I think....The more I know, the less crazy ideas I'll have etc....And also the BETTER ideas I'll have! Thanks again everyone!

[Captain KRM P5]

i've dug through the engine bay of the 3 and for what its worth, i think designing a supercharger setup for that layout would be more trouble than it is worth.

[chkmgnt58]

the problem w/ the nitrous is a couple things... no matter how much you know about it, its always a big risk. and mazda doesnt have the best track record of building strong engines... and the shock of nitrous is second to nothing. you can do it safe, but then you're not talking about gaining alot of power. nitrous is most famous for its uses on engines that are generally considered bulletproof, aka 2jz, sr20, large, fully built chevy and ford v8s, and almost anything those bastards at honda make lol. i just dont see n20 as a viable option on a mazda engine, no matter how much you've built it

[mobomelter]

but realistically, if you're talking about serious power capability, turbo is the way to go. and using a boost controller and ems system, you can quickly change between your daily driving setup and a track setup with low/high boost. just my .02
tgv i think that is the exact quote you are looking for. you could tune your car to be able to handle the high boost (race), which in turn would make it handle low boost (street) even better. plenty of cars have been tuned so that they can be switched between high and low boost.

[Super Matty P]

the ford duratec motor found in the 3 and 6 is a great engine and judging by focus users. The duratec V6 I owned took a helluva pounding (and 100hp shot of n20) just fine.

The problem is that you're talking about adding boost to a somewhat high compression engine AND adding nitrous. How much strain will you put on your fuel system and pistons?? It almost sounds as if you've just heard some terms in a magazine and are trying to mimick what they've done. This is NOT the way to go about modding your daily driven street.

The last time I used a nitrous booster to spool my turbo I was running 11's in a 4cyl pinto. I had also spent $7K working out the bugs in the system and spent 4 years of my life tweaking it. It's not just as simple as throwing some parts on your car. Do some more homework, come up with a sensible plan, go from threre.

[chkmgnt58]

^^^^
listen to him, this kid knows his shit

[mobomelter]

it isn't the duratec in the 3. because if it was we could use focus parts.

[Mazda3Zoomer]

Manual. Rev up crazy. Release clutch. No Turbolag?

[anarchistchiken]

I don't know if its the duratech, but I know that the engine in the 3S is the exact same as the new 2.3L foci. I actually thought it was developed by Mazda and was the same one in the 6i, but I could be wrong.

[mobomelter]

Manual. Rev up crazy. Release clutch. No Turbolag?
nice.

the engine is not the same as the focus. it runs different compression and the parts are not the same. it simply is the same size as the focus.

[Super Matty P]

according to "Focus" magazine they reviewed the 3S and the Focus ST or whatever it's called and said that the mazda was faster even with the same engine....I'll se if I can still get that article off the stand....the point is this though....corn is good isn't it?

[mobomelter]

corn is good wtf?

[tgv121281]

This is gret info, would be great to see that article..

BTW, corn???

[Super Matty P]

yeah, I use the "corn is good" line when I lose my train of thought. I couldn't find the article. It was like a month or 2 ago.